(Updated)Is it just me or do 401ks seem more and more like failed idea.

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Net

Golden Member
Aug 30, 2003
1,592
2
81
you could invest in the s&p 500 index for the majority of your investments and plan for a 20+ year time frame

if your going to retire soon that does suck about it being 7% down but if your not going to then your buying in at a cheaper rate

 
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BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,127
1,604
126
I am 35 and Im down this year too.

I was down a lot during the last market crash.

Of course for several years in between there were like 20+% gains, so, overall, over the long term, Im doing pretty well (mostly in S&P midcap and some russel2000)
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
I stand corrected then. I have only ever rolled-over IRA funds and 401ks from previous employers.
That's what's usually necessary: Some kind of change/triggering event. Leaving a job is one of those. Others include something like going on disability, reaching retirement age, or the company terminating the plan completely.





I guess I'm well off? 27, married, maxing out my 401k, 2 ROTH IRA's, working on getting my wife to contribute more than 10%, and my employer also has a hybrid 401k match/pension.

I also have a 2006 car and could give two shits less. I will drive it till the wheels fall off. My wife on the other hand has a 2008 car and she feels she is the one that needs a new car. It's just more of the Keeping up with the Jones. We also live in a modest house for the area (and for our income). Hell, our home value is less than our yearly combined income.

It's not luck to start substantially contributing to investment retirement accounts at an early age instead of focusing on depreciating assets that have no real value the moment it leaves the store. People fail because it's a choice.
Being able to max out a 401k in the first place means you're quite well-off as far as I'm concerned. Median household income right now is around $53k, versus $18k/year for one person for a 401k. I'm living on my own, so I've got just one person to house, clothe, feed, and entertain. If your household has two working adults in it, I'd expect some cost savings there. But I understand that kids aren't exactly a cheap proposition. Squeezing out that $18k will probably get a bit tricky.


There's also some luck involved in being able to land a job that pays enough to permit you to invest that much money.
- Who you know.
- Who your parents know.
- Where you live.
- Any unexpected expenses that severely disrupt plans for the future.

Someone I know ran into some unexpected things:
- One kid with some serious medical conditions that cost a good chunk of money to treat.
- Second kid ended up coming with an unexpected third: Twins.

That'll put a dent in what you can invest, and when you can start.


I had some lucky breaks that ended up landing me in a job straight out of college. Yes, granted, some of that was due to working hard in college and doing well enough that my name would come up in conversations among the staff and people they knew. But there's still a lot of luck in timing. That job I got started about a month before a hiring freeze was implemented after the recession started in 2009, meaning I had just squeaked in ahead of it.


It's nice to be able to attribute the blame to a person because it's certain. No one likes uncertainty, and it's not fun to think that your own place in life is the way it is by luck, to any degree. Random chance can take away just as much as it can give.


(Note that I don't want to discount bad choices. People are plenty good at doing that. I mainly want to be sure that the sometimes significant role of random chance is factored somewhere in there.)



you could invest in the s&p 500 index for the majority of your investments and plan for a 20+ year time frame

if your going to retire soon that does suck about it being 7% down but if your not going to then your buying in at a cheaper rate

A relative of mine freaked out on Black Monday, like it was the end of the first-world forever.
On a long-term chart like that, it's a blip.
 
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DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
If you buy and hold index funds and ride out the dips you'll do well over decades.

It's not a "scam" by "the man," an S&P 500 fund or Vanguard Target fund can make anyone well-off over decades. Buy, hold, ignore, keep putting in more money, retire happy.

Or bury your gold in a hole in the ground and wait for The Coming Darkness . . . .
 

Darkstar757

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2003
3,190
6
81
I wanted to thank everyone for the well thought out responses. I currently just put my 401k in the JPmorgan Retirement fund. They have funds that have years that are associated with your retirement date. For example mine is 2045 so I am 100% in JPmorgan(2045) fund. Any thoughts?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
I wanted to thank everyone for the well thought out responses. I currently just put my 401k in the JPmorgan Retirement fund. They have funds that have years that are associated with your retirement date. For example mine is 2045 so I am 100% in JPmorgan(2045) fund. Any thoughts?

Yes.

Leave it there.
Up your contributions.
Forget it exists until you're in your 50's - 60's.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
If you buy and hold index funds and ride out the dips you'll do well over decades.

It's not a "scam" by "the man," an S&P 500 fund or Vanguard Target fund can make anyone well-off over decades. Buy, hold, ignore, keep putting in more money, retire happy.

Or bury your gold in a hole in the ground and wait for The Coming Darkness . . . .
Average performance isn't really all that bad at all.



I wanted to thank everyone for the well thought out responses. I currently just put my 401k in the JPmorgan Retirement fund. They have funds that have years that are associated with your retirement date. For example mine is 2045 so I am 100% in JPmorgan(2045) fund. Any thoughts?
Any idea what the expense ratio (ER) is on that fund? It should be shown somewhere with the fund information as a percentage. Hopefully it's less than 1%.
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,180
897
126
Update 10/15/2015

I wanted to thank everyone for the well thought out responses. I currently just put my 401k in the JPmorgan Retirement fund. They have funds that have years that are associated with your retirement date. For example mine is 2045 so I am 100% in JPmorgan(2045) fund. Any thoughts?

I would actually pick a fund with a target date 5 - 10 years beyond your actual planned retirement date. That way you will get a somewhat more aggressive balance now and can always switch into a more conservative balance as you near retirement.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
I would actually pick a fund with a target date 5 - 10 years beyond your actual planned retirement date. That way you will get a somewhat more aggressive balance now and can always switch into a more conservative balance as you near retirement.

That may or may not make a difference. He will have to compare the different plans. I put my IRA into the Vangaurd TRA and the distributions are currently the same for three different target dates that would be in my range. The difference is only when they start to switch over the distributions to the next configuration. So it won't make a difference for me until something like 5-10 years own the line.
 

kaerflog

Golden Member
Jul 23, 2010
1,899
4
76
I wish I was offered 401K where I work. I would easily max out the $18K.
As of now I was only able to defer the $5,500 x 2(me and the wife) for the traditional IRA and an HSA account of $6000. I wish I can find more ways to deferred my income until retirement.
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,201
10,063
136
I wish I was offered 401K where I work. I would easily max out the $18K.
As of now I was only able to defer the $5,500 x 2(me and the wife) for the traditional IRA and an HSA account of $6000. I wish I can find more ways to deferred my income until retirement.
Yeah, i'm in the same boat there.

Anyone know way they limit IRAs to $5500? Especially those of us with no 401k or any other employer option.
I have a traditional & Roth IRA & have just been dividing whatever the limit is between the 2 the last couple of years.
I put more money into some other mutual funds but i pay taxes on those every year.
 
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overst33r

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,762
12
81
I wish I was offered 401K where I work. I would easily max out the $18K.
As of now I was only able to defer the $5,500 x 2(me and the wife) for the traditional IRA and an HSA account of $6000. I wish I can find more ways to deferred my income until retirement.

Petition for a 401k with your employer, at the very least a SEP or Simple IRA. Maybe become a 1099 contractor and start your own Solo 401k.

If none of those work, change jobs if you can...
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,127
1,604
126
One mention, the JP Morgan "RETURE BY" type plans are managed funds which have fees associated with them ... so, their yields may not be "ideal." If you dont do your research, or if you are not secure in what you know, then keep it there, but, if you do your research, you may decide to parcel some into index funds. I mentioned the ones I like, high risk, high potential (s&p midcap + russel2000, others like s&p500 which is a bit lowwer risk, but still a very high return rate) ...
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
Yeah, i'm in the same boat there.

Anyone know way they limit IRAs to $5500? Especially those of us with no 401k or any other employer option.
I have a traditional & Roth IRA & have just been dividing whatever the limit is between the 2 the last couple of years.
I put more money into some other mutual funds but i pay taxes on those every year.

Probably because they want to limit how much income you can earn that doesn't get taxed.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
Tip: if you have to split your savings between tax-deferred (401k, IRA) and your regular taxable accounts because you've maxed out your tax-deferred space, then manage your investments to try to minimize the tax hit.

Assuming you don't invest in 100% stocks and you have some allocation to bonds, keep the bonds in tax-deferred. That way the interest isn't creating taxable income every year. Same if you have stock funds that throw off a lot of dividends and/or capital gains.

And if you're looking to invest in a new stock fund in your taxable accounts, before you pull the trigger check to see how much potential capital gains might be distributed. Nothing worse than dumping some money into a new mutual fund towards the end of the year and shortly thereafter the fund makes a big distribution of capital gains. You weren't holding the fund while those gains were being accumulated, but now you're stuck paying the taxes on them.
 

deadlyapp

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2004
6,609
714
126
Actually checked my values today.

Code:
Account Return
3 Months   YTD      1 Year   3 Years   Since Inception    Inception Date
-7.95%   -5.07%     -3.13%    8.98%        8.80%           02/29/2012

I'm all in Retirement 2055.
 
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DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Actually checked my values today.

Code:
Account Return
3 Months   YTD      1 Year   3 Years   Since Inception    Inception Date
-7.95%   -5.07%     -3.13%    8.98%        8.80%           02/29/2012

I'm all in Retirement 2055.

That's just growth though, so if you got matching then add that, and also add your marginal tax rate (highest tax bracket).
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,649
61
101
My YTD is -0.32%, and I don't really care. Max it yearly, job matches 80%, and Financial Engines manages it, pretty cheap (I think) with a yearly fee of 0.3% of balance. I look at it sometimes.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
I would actually pick a fund with a target date 5 - 10 years beyond your actual planned retirement date. That way you will get a somewhat more aggressive balance now and can always switch into a more conservative balance as you near retirement.
Yeah, I would absolutely do this...if the fund I was already in wasn't the latest year that's current available, at least for my 401k.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
My YTD is -0.32%, and I don't really care. Max it yearly, job matches 80%, and Financial Engines manages it, pretty cheap (I think) with a yearly fee of 0.3% of balance. I look at it sometimes.
Oh dear. Are they just buying more funds with management fees?
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
http://www.theonion.com/article/nations-lower-class-at-least-grateful-it-not-part--28999

The survey found nearly 87 percent of the nation's lowest earners take comfort knowing they are far enough down the economic chain that their children and grandchildren won't possibly be able to live in circumstances any worse than their own, while 65 percent noted they have enough bills to worry about without the additional middle-class burden of making student loan payments or contributions toward a retirement plan that will probably go bust in the next market crash, anyway.

In addition, half of all destitute Americans said that while they lack medical coverage, at least they aren't stuck paying increasingly high premiums for an increasingly terrible health insurance plan. And nearly all survey participants agreed they are grateful not to be trapped chasing "some sort of fantasy dream life" of middle-class American prosperity that no one in the year 2012 can ever possibly attain.

"I can't even fathom what it would be like to drag yourself to work every morning actually believing that someday it will all pay off," said Bronx, NY substitute teacher David McGrath, who along with his wife and 2-year-old son survives on food stamps. "Or to practically kill yourself for a job promotion or meager raise while under the delusion that you can work your way to the top. People waste the best years of their life doing that, and it's a goddamn tragedy."

Americans who live paycheck to paycheck and struggle to make ends meet told researchers they feel humbled by the travails of the middle class, and take solace knowing that however bad things seem, "some people out there have it a whole lot worse."

Oh the onion.
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,201
10,063
136
Probably because they want to limit how much income you can earn that doesn't get taxed.
Just kinda sucks that 401k limit is what...18K while the current IRA limit 5.5K. And a person that had both could max out both i believe.

Would be nice if they adjusted IRA contributions if that's all a person has.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,328
68
91
Just kinda sucks that 401k limit is what...18K while the current IRA limit 5.5K. And a person that had both could max out both i believe.
Would be nice if they adjusted IRA contributions if that's all a person has.
Yeah, its bullshit.
Same for HSAs. Only people with High Deductible Health Plans. (edited)
 
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