Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Ugh, do you not see the difference between the Gulf of Tonkin, the overthrow of regimes in central and south america, and this?! In those we murdered the citizens of other nations... a bad thing to be sure. Here though we would be murdering our own citizens. Can you understand why the average american would be a little more inclined to send someone to prison over killing their neighbor instead of killing someone half a world away that was just a "commie" anyway?
What you're doing right now is the EXACT same thing the creationists do when they try to argue for intelligent design. You point out some inconsistencies in the generally accepted theory, and then assume that is evidence for your viewpoint. It's not.
Give some evidence... any evidence. (note: this means evidence that proves YOUR point, not attempts to DISPROVE the standard story).
You are making nonsense. You people asked for evidence to prove that such an action could or has taken place before. I gave you people proof. False Flag ops. They existed and they were used by the US against other nations as well as our own people.
Or are you claiming that over 58,000 dead Americans in Vietnam was not due to a False Flag op?
You could form an argument that the Gulf War was also a false flag operations to get nations to take action on Iraq. PR firms were hired to push the Kuwaiti side of the story (this is a fact), some poor little girl testified about kids being butchered in some hospital by the Iraqi's (who then turned out to be the daughter of some prominent Kuwaiti official), the satelite photos that turned Desert Shield into Desert Storm (that were later debunked by Russian as well as other satelite pictures of the same area at the same time).
So really what are you looking for?
You are looking for the evidence that proves my point as the CIA's documents on the Gulf of Tonkin or later in IRAN were revealed. Among others. Yet you dismiss them out of hand because they didn't take place in the US? This is absurd.
We were all stupid and swallowed the line about all those other nations we invaded and its people that we murdered. What is so special about us?
For 9/11 such documents or admissions by officials do not exist at this point in time. Based on past experience it could be 20, 30 or more years from now before something might come out like that. When most of those involved are old or dead.
The biggest difference between those False Flag operations and 9/11 is that there is a massive 9/11 for Truth movement and people are rejecting the offical story in a big way. Basicly half the country thinks the official story is BS.
So we should consider ourselves smart in the sense that we picked up on this without having to wait 30 odd years for someone to finally officially release something that would give us a clue.
Classic conspiracy theory nuttiness.
1) A false flag operation by definition is one that is perpetrated by a government against their own people. No such operation have ever gone through, that we know of, in U.S. history. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was indeed a fabricated pretext for war, but to claim the
entire Vietnam War in general was a false flag op (which you do by concluding the U.S. "murdered" 58,000 of its own citizens by sending them to Vietnam) is, again, classic conspiracy theory nuttiness. It ignores the reality of the situation at the time, which was the worry that communism would spread across the entire Asian continent; not just Vietnam but Red China as well. Those were perfectly legit concerns despite the false Tonkin pretext, yet completely ignored by persons such as yourself to push the "false flag" agenda.
2) CIA overthrow of Iran. For one, I find it highly amusing that CT'ers like to always make sure people know that 50's Iran democratically elected their leader. Yet no mention is made that electing leaders does not suddenly make you a democracy; it's asinine in the extreme to make such a simplistic generalization or to insinuate it as you have. Iran at the time was a
nationalist state that nationalized their oil supply, greatly reducing productivity and exports to foreign countries, most notably Britain. But most importantly Iran continually, in particular their Shah Mossadegh, would not align themselves with actual democratic nations such as the U.S. and Britain, disregarding NATO pressure to comply, instead outcasting themselves with the likes of Russia who, at the time, was known as the Soviet Union fighting a bitter Cold War with the U.S. to stretch communist influence across the globe. Of course this context isn't mentioned at all by nuts like yourself, simply ignored for convenience's sake.
3) Your contention that the Gulf War could be considered a false flag op is ridiculous in the extreme and not even worth commenting on since you've got your facts all wrong anyway.
4) Your contention that "basically half the country thinks the official story is BS" is not supported by any legitimate research. Polls are
not considered scientific in nature by the actual community that makes the standards for research techniques (i.e. the academic community). Which is why you will fail over and over to convince people here that half of the U.S. truly believes the 9/11 attacks were sanctioned by parts of the U.S. government. Parts of the official story may indeed be inaccurate, but the crux of your argument is that 9/11 was perpetrated by rogue agents of the U.S. government and, forgive me for being blunt, but you'd have to be mentally handicapped in some form to truly believe that half the citizens in this country truly believe 9/11 was not carried out by foreign terrorists. I mean seriously now, if anywhere half the country
truly believed the U.S. was complicit don't you maybe think the media might pick up on it and do some digging? Even just one journalist? Yet we not a single journalist in the U.S. has supported the 9/11 "Truth Movement" of the conspirators. I wonder what the statistical probability of that is.
And again, you're not going to find any evidence of a U.S.-led 9/11 plot. You will go decades without evidence because no such plot will be proven to exist. The logistics of carrying out such a false flag op on American soil would require by default the coordination of at least hundreds of people, and the likelihood of not ONE single person coming forward with legitimate suspicions in the 5+ years since the 9/11 attacks is even more improbable. You cite these supposed firefighters, air traffic controllers, etc. that support your case, but when push comes to shove you won't actually list in detail or context what they've
actually said, word for word, nor will you analyze how accurate their accounts should be considered. Again, because you're not interested in facts, data, or context, but merely interested in "being right" or "being enlightened".