updatevideocardzAMD Polaris 10 engineering sample ‘pictured’

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IllogicalGlory

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
934
346
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I could see a relatively high-power desktop Polaris with a low-clocked versions for mobile.

Besides, overclockers will make sure that we don't have to deal with efficient chips.
 

Mahigan

Senior member
Aug 22, 2015
573
0
0
The problem with information on OC3D is that they tested, and posted Hitman in DX11 condition, because for them DX12 was to buggy to test.

http://i.imgur.com/Ti5Ei1L.jpg Here we have ultra settings as well in 1440p. And it is on par with R9 390X.
That's the average FPS. Polaris 10 is running at a constant 60+ FPS. Meaning the minimum FPS is 60 and the average would be higher than 60.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,761
4,666
136
Ok, so it is not on par with R9 390X but with Fury X .

It is extremely satisfying level of performance for that segment(Pitcairn!).
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
1,663
570
136
I expect Polaris 10 to have roughly the same shader count as Hawaii (best guess: 3072). I also expect it to have a well-balanced front end, which Hawaii and Pitcairn have, but Tahiti, Tonga, and Fiji don't.

FinFET allowed Apple to boost its SoC clocks by more than 40% over the corresponding 20nm planar chip. I think a lot of Polaris 10's gains will come from increased clockspeeds - somewhere between 1200 and 1400 MHz core clock is well within the realm of possibility. Between that and the architectural improvements, it should easily be able to beat Fiji. Remember, Fiji is only about 15% faster than Hawaii at 1080p.

As for memory, I'm going to dissent from the crowd and speculate that Polaris 10 will be using a 256-bit GDDR5X memory bus. I know some people will argue that it's too early for that, but remember that Fury X hit the shelves before HBM technically even went into "mass production". And that's assuming that Samsung and Hynix won't beat Micron to the punch. A 256-bit bus with standard GDDR5 would be too narrow for a chip as powerful as this, even at 7GHz effective clock rates. GDDR5X should allow an effective clock rate of 12GHz even early on, and this would translate to 384 GB/sec of bandwidth, the same as the R9 390X. It also means lower power usage, die size savings, and fewer PCB traces needed. First-generation HBM is out of the question because 4GB is simply not acceptable outside of the low tier any more.

Hawaii has a die size of 438mm^2. Most estimates have 14LPP providing about 2.2x as many transistors per mm^2 as TSMC 28nm. That would mean that a blind die-shrink of Hawaii would be just under 200mm^2. Some additional space will be taken up by larger caches, new hardware functions, updated UVD for HEVC, and so forth, but Polaris 10 can cut the memory bus width in half by using GDDR5X, which is a substantial space savings. It can probably also drop the Double Precision support found in Hawaii; I'm assuming AMD is saving that for Vega. Given this, it's more than plausible for a chip like this to fit within 232mm^2 on 14LPP.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
136
It wasn't confirmed to use GDDR5. That's simply a different interpretation of Raja's words.

Raja said that HBM design and implementation was cost prohibitive and that AMD needed to recoup those costs. Thing is, AMD is sitting on HBM memory produced for their FuryX line. They have to use it somewhere in order to recoup costs. So AMD will use HBM for another generation. That's the Polaris generation. PCPer sad as much.

The way Anandtech interpretated this was that HBM was too expensive so AMD will use GDDR5, which is incorrect.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-...past-CrossFire-smaller-GPU-dies-HBM2-and-more

Oh and Polaris 10 will out perform both the FuryX and GTX 980 Ti.

Then you look at the shipping manifest:


And you notice that every GDDR5 circuit board mentions GDDR5 and the speed, because the traces are printed on the boards, but not BaffinXT (Polaris 10).

And you have your answer. HBM1.

pcper was guessing. Raja avoided giving a direct answer to whether Polaris would use HBM. btw the cards in the table which have GDDR5 in the description are older products which are rebranded (probably Oland GPU). Look at the code C7, which indicates a much older generation. Baffin XT G5 hints at GDDR5 memory. AMD would not want to give too much information on upcoming products like Polaris 10 while there is no problem being very descriptive about older products which are rebranded.

HBM is still not feasible for GPUs targetted at mainstream price points of USD 299 - USD 399. The other problem is HBM1 needs a 4096 bit memory bus with 4 stacks for just 4GB capacity. I think its completely illogical to have such a complex and wide memory bus on a mainstream high volume GPU. Anyway I stand by my opinion that Polaris 10 is GDDR5 based. We will know if I am right when Polaris launches.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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I will be very surprised if Polaris is HBM. GDDR5 only, cheap, proven, mass availability. Keeping costs low allows them to provide PERF/$.
 

casiofx

Senior member
Mar 24, 2015
369
36
61
Apple received big clockspeed boost from going 20nm to finfet. Polaris would be a bigger jump from 28nm to finfet.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
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Can some one please explain to me why these cards are exciting?
If the 1080 gtx/Polaris are not faster than this what good are they?
They are no faster than what we have now it seems.
Overclock a gtx980ti or 390x/Fury and walaa you have the same speeds mabe faster.
ARe they supposed to be cheaper or something? More than 399$and theses cards are a bust.

It seems most enthusiasts will be buying next year, am I wrong?
 
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S.H.O.D.A.N.

Senior member
Mar 22, 2014
205
0
41
They're not for the ti/Fury crowd. They're (hopefully) a future proof refresh of the mid range that's a little long in the tooth and a potentially attractive offering for mobile OEMs. They might not be exciting to the high end polygon pushers, but I can see why they might be exciting for AMD and/or lower budget consumers.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
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They're not for the ti/Fury crowd. They're (hopefully) a future proof refresh of the mid range that's a little long in the tooth and a potentially attractive offering for mobile OEMs. They might not be exciting to the high end polygon pushers, but I can see why they might be exciting for AMD and/or lower budget consumers.

Last i saw there was around 7 million gamers with the 970 (& 290). I'm sure they would love something like a Fury X/980Ti performance class at even lower wattage for cheap.

Then all the folks with 950/960 class.

Dudes with Fury X/980Ti will have to wait for Vega and GP100.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
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Last i saw there was around 7 million gamers with the 970 (& 290). I'm sure they would love something like a Fury X/980Ti performance class at even lower wattage for cheap.

Then all the folks with 950/960 class.

Dudes with Fury X/980Ti will have to wait for Vega and GP100.
A fury x/980ti at low power usage? Sign me up. It's a year til Vega anyway it's a great stop gap.
 

IllogicalGlory

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
934
346
136
Personally, I'm not interested in anything that's less 2.5x my current performance, preferably before OCing. My next purchase will probably be a cut Vega or GP100. An overclocked 980 Ti is in that region, but that level of performance isn't really interesting enough to me.
 
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Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
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Personally, I'm not interested in anything that's less 2.5x my current performance, preferably before OCing. My next purchase will probably be a cut Vega or GP100. An overclocked 980 Ti is in that region, but that level of performance isn't really interesting enough to me.

You have a 290... nothing is close to 2.5x the performance of that.

If you get 40 fps in a game and want to upgrade, you want at least 100 fps?

Even saying 1.5x would be 60 fps and is about where Fury X / 980 TI are now.
 

IllogicalGlory

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
934
346
136
You have a 290... nothing is close to 2.5x the performance of that.

If you get 40 fps in a game and want to upgrade, you want at least 100 fps?

Even saying 1.5x would be 60 fps and is about where Fury X / 980 TI are now.
Well, at 1440p, the 980 Ti matrix is 1.78x a stock 290, with an extra 10% OC headroom available, so it's pretty close to 2x. Hopefully Vega/GP100 are around 50-70% faster. That puts them right on the mark. Maybe even around that for an OC'ed 290.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
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@happy medium

Potentially Fury X at $349, and above 390X at $299, ~100W. Good deal?

Sure is.

339$ with a free game for a 390x on newegg
Ive seen Fury's for 549$ and a free game.

If I were an owner of a 7950/7970 or gtx950/gtx960 a 300$ card that was ~90% faster would be sweet, but I highly doubt they will be 299/349$.

I would think like 399/499 $ is more like it, especially at release.
 

UaVaj

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2012
1,546
0
76
"AMD's Polaris 10 engineering sample has been pictured and shown running Hitman at Ultra Settings at a constant 60+ FPS at 1440p, which is an impressive feat given that in our testing the the R9 Fury X was not even able to average 60FPS at these settings. "

nice.
maybe I will get to keep my u3014 x3 setup after all.
Polaris x4 should get the job done.
 

digitaldurandal

Golden Member
Dec 3, 2009
1,828
0
76
Can some one please explain to me why these cards are exciting?
If the 1080 gtx/Polaris are not faster than this what good are they?
They are no faster than what we have now it seems.
Overclock a gtx980ti or 390x/Fury and walaa you have the same speeds mabe faster.
ARe they supposed to be cheaper or something? More than 399$and theses cards are a bust.

It seems most enthusiasts will be buying next year, am I wrong?

I think it is going to depend heavily on the DP 1.3 monitors that come out.

Ultrawide 1440p @ 144hz. Yes please.
 

littleg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2015
355
38
91
Can some one please explain to me why these cards are exciting?
If the 1080 gtx/Polaris are not faster than this what good are they?
They are no faster than what we have now it seems.
Overclock a gtx980ti or 390x/Fury and walaa you have the same speeds mabe faster.
ARe they supposed to be cheaper or something? More than 399$and theses cards are a bust.

It seems most enthusiasts will be buying next year, am I wrong?

Power consumption not important anymore? Thought perf/W was the key metric.
 
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