Upgrade Advice - GTX 280 Now; Want Moderate Imrpovement + Cooler

[guptasa1]

Hey all,

Running a quad-core 3.2 GHz 4 GB RAM (X48 chipset) gaming rig I built in October of 2008.

When I built it, I used a (PCIe) eVGA GTX 280 card - factory OC'd a bit. Card's performed fairly well, but then, and now, I've had some heat issues running it at stock in certain games. If I crank the fan way up, most of them go away, but the rig is unreasonably loud at this point, and the rest of the rig stays pretty good heat wise - it's a spacious aluminum case with lots of fans/airflow. I just think this specific card is sensitive and always was a hot running card - usually when I start to see glitches (graphic corruption), the heat monitor reads it as a lil high but nothing too severe.

At any rate, I'd like to consider an upgrade. Open to both nVidia and ATI, but here are my chief wants/needs in a card:
- Cooler running than my current GTX 280, preferably significantly so
- Same size or smaller as the GTX 280
- A moderate performance increase over the GTX 280 - it doesn't have to be the latest greatest on the market, but I may as well get a nice performance increase out of the upgrade
- PCIe interface

Thanks for any suggestions =)

 

[CrystalBay]

6870 is efficient .

 

[MangoX]

A 6870, 6950 1GB or a 560Ti will do you well.

Bench doesn't have the 280, only a 285, so that's what will have to do. Drop some 5-10% from the 285 score to simulate a 280.

560Ti
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/330?vs=317

6870
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/290?vs=317

6950 1GB
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/331?vs=317

 

[FalseChristian]

A GTX 560 Ti isn't all that much faster than a GTX 280. You'll wanna go with the GTX 570 or GTX 580.

 

[Termie]

A GTX 560 Ti isn't all that much faster than a GTX 280. You'll wanna go with the GTX 570 or GTX 580.

And those will be larger and hotter than his current card.

If he's not looking for a huge performance boost, the 6870 is the way to go. Much cooler running and sips power compared to the 280. The 560 runs cool, but it also uses a lot of power. The 6950 is probably larger than the 280, and it runs pretty hot too.

 

[MangoX]

A GTX 560 Ti isn't all that much faster than a GTX 280. You'll wanna go with the GTX 570 or GTX 580.

He was looking for a modest gain.

 

[-Slacker-]

A non reference hd 6950 should be at least 40% faster and fit inside your case too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-361-_-Product

^The heapest by quite a bit, although I recommend one of these if you're going to overclock:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-921-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-523-_-Product

(at least I think they're more overclockable)

 

[RussianSensation]

Even with only a GTX460 1GB, a 2.66hz Core 2 Quad 9400 is already bottleneck. Therefore, unless you are gaming at 2560x1600, there is not much point in getting anything faster unless you overclock that CPU.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/20486/4

 

[s1175290]

I would look at a 5870. This one is on sale for $170 after rebate right now:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...XFX-_-14150476

I made a similar move a couple of months ago and I've been thrilled. I went from a 280 to a 5870 (a different model than the XFX). It's more quiet, cooler, and it offered a decent performance increase. The size is almost the same as the 280. You should be able to sell your 280 for $90 to $100, which makes it a pretty decent upgrade in my opinion.

 

[guptasa1]

Thanks for the feedback - I'll take a look at the 5870's and 6870's (and possibly the 6950, and a few of the other suggestions, but the heat comment concerns me - I should be okay power wise even with a beefier card, but I'd prefer to stick lower if possible).

As discussed, since my processor will likely be the bottleneck (and I'm using the fastest chip for this particular board at the moment and am not ready for a full system upgrade), there's no sense in me considering one of the newer flagships, and we're also talking more heat/size with them.

High efficiency (ie. a cooler card that won't give me glitches) is the ticket, and these Radeons sound like they're most likely my best bet.

Again, all suggestions very much appreciated, and any more certainly welcome in the meantime.

 

[Zap]

High efficiency (ie. a cooler card that won't give me glitches) is the ticket

Regardless of which GPU you want, look for a card that uses a custom cooler with 2x or even 3x fans. Those tend to run cooler without extra noise.

 

[wahdangun]

Thanks for the feedback - I'll take a look at the 5870's and 6870's (and possibly the 6950, and a few of the other suggestions, but the heat comment concerns me - I should be okay power wise even with a beefier card, but I'd prefer to stick lower if possible).

As discussed, since my processor will likely be the bottleneck (and I'm using the fastest chip for this particular board at the moment and am not ready for a full system upgrade), there's no sense in me considering one of the newer flagships, and we're also talking more heat/size with them.

High efficiency (ie. a cooler card that won't give me glitches) is the ticket, and these Radeons sound like they're most likely my best bet.

Again, all suggestions very much appreciated, and any more certainly welcome in the meantime.

don't go for HD 5870 because its old tech and with current driver HD 6870 is actually faster than HD 5870 but if i was you i will buy HD 6950 and unlock it its the best for the buck

 

[RussianSensation]

don't go for HD 5870 because its old tech and with current driver HD 6870 is actually faster than HD 5870 but if i was you i will buy HD 6950 and unlock it its the best for the buck

The major change in HD6870 series compared to HD5870 was in the slightly improved tessellation performance. The other added features were HDMI 1.4, UVD3, removal of FP64 (double precision) support, improved texture filtering. In terms of the actual architecture, unlike the HD69xx series, HD68xx series are virtually unchanged from the older HD5870.

In latest testing, HD5870 is still about 8-9% faster at lower resolutions and 13% faster at higher resolutions than the 6870. HD5870's performance is more in line with HD6950 1GB rather than the 6870. This is why the 5870 is the better card at $170. I do agree with you that HD6950 unlocked is a good option as well. Mine runs pretty quiet at 70-75*C. Still be cognisant of the fact that both of these videocards are simply too fast for a stock Core 2 Quad @ 2.6ghz at moderate resolutions.

 

[Arkadrel]

Aint nothin wrong with a 5870

*whispers sweet nothin's to his GPU, and tells it not to listen to newer ones and people calling it old*

 

[guptasa1]

Thanks again for all the great feedback! (Just FYI, gaming resolution is 1920 x 1200).

I researched most of the suggestions and it came down to between the Radeon HD6870 and the GeForce 560Ti (which I started looking at a bit later in the game), both within about $50 of each other for the cards I was looking at (dual-cooler ones).

It was a really tough decision and I *almost* went with the 6870 as frankly I could get a better deal on it (some pretty great ones out there) in some nice dual-cooler models, and it seems like a generally great card with a lot of pleased customers. The only thing that pushed me over to the 560Ti was PhysX, which I know is somewhat dead in current games, but a lot of the games I want to play (as I'm catching up on some slightly older titles...Batman Arkham Asylum as an example) use it, so I really wanted something that could support it, and this will likely be my last video card upgrade to this machine. I had forgotten Radeon's unfortunately don't at this point, even though I know going forward it's probably a moot point.

I ended up going with an msi dual-fan+heatsink model with a factory OC on it that's reviewed pretty well and also said to be nice and cool despite the OC (in addition to being a lil bit smaller than my current card).

The 560Ti might be slight overkill for my processor, and its power requirements might be a tad higher than the Radeon, but temps should actually be as good (or slightly less) than the Radeon, and it's still significantly less power hungry than the 280 I have (my PSU is pretty beefy so I should be fine). The dual fans and great heatsink should make a big difference too - I'm expecting much cooler temps with it and a nice boost in performance.

I went through Newegg, so if I have any further heat/stability problems or don't like the performance, I can return it and try the Radeon instead. Both look like amazing cards (as does frankly the 5870, which I also considered).

Radeon's looking to be quite a performer, and I'm going to strongly consider one for my next rig (likely a few years off) assuming the landscape doesn't change dramatically by the time I build it.

 

[Dadofamunky]

He was looking for a modest gain.

Why bother upgrading?

I do agree, PhysX seems like a hopeless dead end.

 

[Will Robinson]

The only thing that pushed me over to the 560Ti was PhysX,

Your instincts were right up until this sentence.
Another win for NVDA marketing.
Oh well....the 560 is a pretty good card anyway,enjoy.

 

[guptasa1]

Fair points about PhysX, and you're probably right, the marketing probably did get me. I absolutely acknowledge the 6870 (and 5870 as well) are the most bang for the buck right now, and I'm not an nVidia fan boy or anything; if none of the games I wanted to play used PhysX, it would have been a no brainer to go with Radeon (probably the XFX factory OC dual cooler one as that looks like a sweet card with a great cooler and warranty). I just kept feeling like I'd miss something in the PhysX-supported titles (as few as they are), and for better or worse, the 560Ti does seem like a good card; just a little overpriced (around $30 higher than that XFX), but not enough to dissuade me, and it's on par with Radeon (slightly faster in certain benches and a tad slower in other) while meeting all my heat and size goals (and using less power than my current card as well).

As far as why upgrade at all, again, the 280 I have just seems to have too many heat problems, and I don't think they're easily solvable at this point. Either card would have been quite a modest gain to the point that I think performance for this rig will be more or less maxed out, so I think now's as good a time as any.

I do agree PhysX going forward is probably dead, so I fully expect my next rig could very well have an AMD card in it.

 

[happy medium]

A GTX 560 Ti isn't all that much faster than a GTX 280. You'll wanna go with the GTX 570 or GTX 580.

What? are you kidding?

A gtx280 is as fast as a gtx550/hd5770, and much slower then a gtx460 768mb.. A gtx560 is easily 70% faster.

With his slow cpu , he should be looking at a gtx460 1gb or 6850, whichever is cheaper.

Hell, if hes gaming at 1650x1050 a gtx460 768 would be perfect for 130$ AR.

 

[Termie]

What? are you kidding?

A gtx280 is as fast as a gtx550/hd5770, and much slower then a gtx460 768mb.. A gtx560 is easily 70% faster.

With his slow cpu , he should be looking at a gtx460 1gb or 6850, whichever is cheaper.

Hell, if hes gaming at 1650x1050 a gtx460 768 would be perfect for 130$ AR.

Come on, Happy, you should know better than that. A GTX280 slaughters a 5770, just like it slaughtered a 4870 in its day.

It (or at least the equivalent GTX275) is within 5% of a GTX460-768: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/169?vs=156

Regardless, the OP bought a GTX560, and that should make you happy!

 

[happy medium]

Come on, Happy, you should know better than that. A GTX280 slaughters a 5770, just like is slaughtered a 4870 in its day.

It (or at least the equivalent GTX275) is within 5% of a GTX460-768: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/169?vs=156

Regardless, the OP bought a GTX560, and that should make you happy!

Mabe with the release drivers but my overclocked 5750 was very close to a gtx275 which = a gtx280 which was close to 4890. The gtx275,280 and 4890 were all in the same pallpark.

I sold my gtx260 for a 5750 for a reason. Overclocked the 5750 was faster and also had direct x 11.

The gtx560/6870/6950 point is really irrelevent, his cpu is just too slow.

Like I said if he's gaming @ 1900x1080 a gtx460 or 6850 is good, if he's at 1650x1050 a gtx460 768 is perfect.

 

[guptasa1]

Mabe with the release drivers but my overclocked 5750 was very close to a gtx275 which = a gtx280 which was close to 4890. The gtx275,280 and 4890 were all in the same pallpark.

I sold my gtx260 for a 5750 for a reason. Overclocked the 5750 was faster and also had direct x 11.

The gtx560/6870/6950 point is really irrelevent, his cpu is just too slow.

Like I said if he's gaming @ 1900x1080 a gtx460 or 6850 is good, if he's at 1650x1050 a gtx460 768 is perfect.

So a few clarifications! I just realized somehow, I listed my processor as 2.6 GHz - it's in fact a quad core 3.2 GHz (no idea how I managed that one, but I think my old Pentium D was a 2.6 and I got lost in time). So I'll see a bit more benefit than most of these posts take into account (totally my error). =)

Also, my gaming resolution is just a bit higher at 1920 x 1200, so I'm not sure a little more beef hurts.

Like I said, my current card just runs too hot for my liking, and cranking up the fan all the way is noisy. If I leave it as is though, it's hitting 82 degrees and causing video distortions. I don't think it's the system - just the card. I notice the 280's don't even exist in benchmarks, and I'm wondering if that's why - the cards are monsters for heat and I unwisely went with a single-fan (near-reference) design, which I fixed this time. Expecting the new card to run loads cooler.

 

[Termie]

So a few clarifications! I just realized somehow, I listed my processor as 2.6 GHz - it's in fact a quad core 3.2 GHz (no idea how I managed that one, but I think my old Pentium D was a 2.6 and I got lost in time). So I'll see a bit more benefit than most of these posts take into account (totally my error). =)

Also, my gaming resolution is just a bit higher at 1920 x 1200, so I'm not sure a little more beef hurts.

Like I said, my current card just runs too hot for my liking, and cranking up the fan all the way is noisy. If I leave it as is though, it's hitting 82 degrees and causing video distortions. I don't think it's the system - just the card. I notice the 280's don't even exist in benchmarks, and I'm wondering if that's why - the cards are monsters for heat and I unwisely went with a single-fan (near-reference) design, which I fixed this time. Expecting the new card to run loads cooler.

In that case, a GTX560 is a very good choice! Let us know how it works for you.

 

[MrK6]

So a few clarifications! I just realized somehow, I listed my processor as 2.6 GHz - it's in fact a quad core 3.2 GHz (no idea how I managed that one, but I think my old Pentium D was a 2.6 and I got lost in time). So I'll see a bit more benefit than most of these posts take into account (totally my error). =)

Nothing wrong with more breathing room. :thumbsup:

Also, my gaming resolution is just a bit higher at 1920 x 1200, so I'm not sure a little more beef hurts.

The higher the resolution, the more AMD cards are going to be favored.

Like I said, my current card just runs too hot for my liking, and cranking up the fan all the way is noisy. If I leave it as is though, it's hitting 82 degrees and causing video distortions. I don't think it's the system - just the card. I notice the 280's don't even exist in benchmarks, and I'm wondering if that's why - the cards are monsters for heat and I unwisely went with a single-fan (near-reference) design, which I fixed this time. Expecting the new card to run loads cooler.

I know you already ordered a card, but just to clarify a few things for future reference or to help others reading this thread (and who knows, you might change your mind after all). First, 82C is not in any way hot for a graphics card. Most are designed to run at 90C, and have their fan profiles configured accordingly (to minimize noise). If you're getting visual distortions at only 82C, something is fundamentally wrong with the card, but it's not heat related. As far as efficiency, the 6950 is actually the most efficient card on the market right now (realstically - http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6950/30.html). I don't think you made a bad purchase, but certainly not the best for your given requirements. Either way, enjoy your new card :thumbsup:.

 

[guptasa1]

Thanks for the continued great feedback!

Gotcha about high res and Radeons having the edge.

Re the 280 GTX, I realize heat isn't the only factor, and you're right - ideally it should be running fine at 82C, but it's not for whatever reason. If I crank the fan all the way up, it eliminates these texture issues (at least in Batman), but exchanges them for a distracting amount of fan noise. Even then running at max fan, a few games have had some (occasional) problems - Need for Speed Shift, for example, was experiencing these same problems; much fewer with the fan cranked up, but it would still have random issues.

I've also experienced a few "graphics card has stopped responding and recovered" errors while using Windows, though these are very occasional. I always chocked it up to software until my recent reformat, and now I really am wondering if it could be a hardware hiccup.

So I'd agree with you - there's likely a problem somewhere with the card.

I also completely agree the Radeon's more efficient power-wise as well as cost-wise, but relatively speaking compared to my current card, the 560Ti is *almost* as much of an improvement (and a huge one at that); just not QUITE as far as the Radeon. Still, since I'd like PhysX, that's a fair tradeoff, and I believe this card should actually be cooler.

I really don't think there was a bad choice between the two here. =)

About to install the thing shortly as it came today. =)