Upgrade advice

[ratjacket]

I have finally decided to upgrade CPU, MOBO, RAM

my current system is
Gigabyte EP45-DQ6 (I only ever chose this cause of all the Cu covering it)
core 2 duo E8400 @4.00GHz 24/7 (since Jan 2009)
8 GB of ram 2GBx4 (2x(2x2GB) PC2 6400)

Cooling I use is extreme Air industrial 120mm fans (x6) very noisy
This doesn't bother me as the case is located 20m away (in the cold laundry) from input and ouput devices

I have a SSD and my mobo is only SATA2
I only ever seem to use 1 VGA but like having extra PCI slots just incase
I normally only ever use Nvidia VGAs (560Ti atm, looking at a 2nd hand 680)

I am open to options for AMD since they seem to be a lot cheaper and the motherboards can be upgraded for a lot longer than intel

Power use doesn't worry me
Overclock ease and stability does

I was originaly thinking core i7
Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4
3820k
4x8GB 1600 CL9

I trust gigabyte mobos but are open to anything

I welcome any and all recommendations thanks

 

[Ketchup]

What are you using the computer for? For everyday use and some gaming your current rig sounds pretty adequate. I wasn't necessarily disappointed when upgrading from my Core2 Quad, but it wasn't the speed jump I have seen on upgrades in the past.

 

[ratjacket]

Mainly gaming

but I don't seem to be doing much demanding gaming lately

BF3 was the last game I played that was resource hungry(rig handled it fine except for the ram on the vga was too low for max settings had to use mid), but I got sick of that and have been playing LoL

however I would like the option to crank up a nice game if one comes that I like.

I am stuck on core duo not quad and there are little to no options for 2nd hand core 2 quads where I live

on the amd front I have priced up

GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 REV 3.0
Kingston Hyperx beast 2x8GB
FX 8350

how would this compare on single threaded apps vs my core 2 duo @ 4GHz

The other note is I am using a thermalright xp-120 heatsink (with a lga775 clip) and would like to be able to modify or buy a retention clip so I can keep using it

 

[shoman24v]

Consider getting a new wireless card, I don't think the new motherboards have legacy support. I got the ASUS Z87 Pro because it came with WiFi.

 

[Ketchup]

Just some thoughts here. An upgrade is still an upgrade, after all.

Personally, I don't see a reason to go AMD from what you have. Call me a fanboy if you want, I bought AMD back when they really had something to offer. I just think it's quite difficult to find a scenario where you are getting more for your money with an AMD CPU.

And lots of cores are only going to help you in apps that are designed to use them, such as video encoding. Most run just fine on 2, some will use 4.

As far as coolers, you could buy an adapter for your XP120, but I would recommend you consider the cooler in my sig, here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103099

$35 US and much better cooling than my XP90, with a quieter fan.

Also remember you have already done the best thing for a fast-feeling computer, an SSD.

Where are you going to be buying from?

 

[ratjacket]

I am in NZ

so everything is a little behind and more expensive

http://pricespy.co.nz/category.php?k=1243

The only reason I want to keep the XP-120 is the fact is blows down.

maybe I should just hold out for longer before I upgrade then.

what sort of modern cpu would equal or greater than the raw speed I have now(E8400 @4.0GHz) for single threaded apps

 

[Ketchup]

Anandtech usually doesn't go back incredibly far with their reviews. However, I think this one will give you a pretty good idea of what to expect:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/...core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/15

Page 20 gives you a good idea on gaming. Just remember what settings they are using - 1680x1050, medium quality, and no AA, as higher settings are mainly dependent mostly on the video card.

I know this is two cores old, but I don't see a drastic difference on the gaming front going from Sandy to Haswell.

Also remember your graphics card is two generations old, and there were some pretty decent increases on that front, IMO. Also, in some price brackets, many over in Video Cards and Graphics think AMD has the better card.

Since you are looking into increasing your gaming performance, you may want to buy a video card first (you were going to anyway, right?) and then see if the rest of your system needs the overhaul.

 

[ratjacket]

So if i did decide to upgarde and choose intelwhat socket and cpu would you recomend for future proof and upgradeablity

is skt 2011 and ivy bridge-e the way to go

i havnt kept tabs on intel since i got the 775 system and now ther are so many "newer" sockets im confused

or would i be better with one of the other sockets and hunting around for a good modern mobo? (if i can find 2nd hand parts for it it would save alot i know ram will be fine but finding a decent cpu may be difficult)

it seems intel changes skt all the time and most mobos purchased dont support newer cpus of the same socket once released

i was dissapointed in my skt 775(not performance wise overclocked to 4.0 with ease stress tested and was stable within the first couple of days 48hr prime stable) as i basicly havnt been able to change my cpu due to lack of avalible core-2-quads(or decent core 2 quads that wouldnt drop my raw single threaded performance if i couldnt hit 4.0GHz) and limits on ddr2 ram manufacture (basicly stuck at 2GB sticks)

All i have realy done on the cpu ram upgarde side is get another 2x2GB kit

 

[Ketchup]

If you want to future-proof, you are in luck. Haswell came out with a brand-new socket, so a Haswell with an LGA 1150 board should give you a while to be able to upgrade.

Just an example, if I were buying today, I would probably be looking at something like this:

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z...-Haswell--Core-i5-4670K-3.4GHz-6MB-LGA1150---

this

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z...yte-GA-Z87-HD3-Socket-1150Intel-Z87-CHipset-A

and this

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z...LL-Ares-8GB-(2x4GB)-DDR3-1600MHz-(PC3-12800)-

Hopefully you have a site available with better prices, because I did some conversion, and the numbers weren't pretty.

 

[ratjacket]

We have GST in NZ its a bitch convert to nz then add 15% to everything
DDR3 is plentiful and there is heaps of second hand kits I can get

so

i7 3820k & GA-X79-UP4 = $684

or

i5 4670k & GA-Z87-HD3 = $514

or

FX-8350 & GA-990FXA-UD3 = $488

 

[Nec_V20]

This is what I put together for myself:

Cooler Master HAF XB Cube Case Black £68.34

Corsair AX860 860W Modular Power Supply 80 Plus Platinum £126.16

Intel Core i7 4770K 3.5 GHz 8MB LGA1150 £259.99

Gigabyte Z87X-UD5H S1150 Intel Z87 DDR3 ATX £188.64

Cooler Master MegaFlow 200mm LED Silent Fan - Blue £10.94

ModRight 200mm Clear Fan Filter Aluminium Mesh £7.65

Corsair H100i Hydro Series Extreme Performance CPU Cooler £89.94

3 * Noctua NF-F12 PWM Desktop PC Case Cooling Fan £50.22

2 * Noctua NF-R8 80mm PC CASE FAN (PWM Version) £25.98

3 * 120mm Mesh Aluminium Fan Filter - Black £ 7.80

2 * Aluminium Mesh Air Filter 80mm - Black £2.86

3 * Gelid PCI Bracket with Removable Dust Filter, pack of 3 £11.97

12 pcs PC Case Fan Screws (Black) £1.59

PC Dust mesh net gauze cover air filter sheet £7.99

50 Strong Neodymium Disc Magnets 6x3 mm N52 Grade £6.36

2 * Phobya 6-32 UNC x 35mm Cross Head Screw 4 Pack : Black Nickel £6.83

Running total £883.26

This might seem like a lot, however I build systems that run 24/7 and last for at least five years. The only thing I will have to do with this system is to add to it. I don't go on forums like these and whine about BSODs or my system not booting up. I have been building systems for the past 30 years.

Somebody will reply to this saying, "You can never tell how long a system will last because all systems can have failures". Whilst this has a certain amount of truth (for a very low given value of the word "truth") I build according to the, "Six-P Principle", which is:

Proper Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance

The most important two components for the stability of a system are the PSU and Motherboard. Anyone cheaping out on these two is a monumental fool.

I'm not a snot blinded kid who thinks that he has a brilliant system just because he can get his computer to run a benchmark without crashing, only to boast how great his system performs. My present main system, based on a Corsair AX850 PSU, a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R motherboard and a Core i7-990x CPU has been up and running 24/7 for 1092 days 5 hours. I think that is something to boast about.

I built the new system not because I needed to (there is still plenty of life left in the main system I have), but rather because I wanted to. I was intrigued by the new Haswell generation of processors.

One discovery I made about the i7-4770k I have came about by accident. The Corsair H100i which I had stopped working. Whilst I was waiting for it to be replaced I could run windows and do things like browse the Internet to post here or run a text processor and work on documents without any cooling on the CPU whatsoever. This is the first time I have been able to run a CPU bareback for about 15 years.

I measured how much energy the system draws from the socket and just doing the normal stuff I mentioned it draws 44 Watts and it gusts up to 68 Watts for a second if I am loading a web page or something like that.

 

[ratjacket]

so socket 2011 or 1150

both about the same price

well 1150 if I go ud5 costs more than 2011

p.s my core 2 duo has been running at 4.0GHz 24/7 for 1736 days stable 48hours prime no crashes no bsod

 

[Ketchup]

Well, if you go 2011 you will be buying the last processor for that socket. Speed-wise there isn't a big difference though, and you would save some money going that route.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Get the 4670K.

 

[ratjacket]

So skt 1150 is the way to go

how come there is no hyperthreading on the 4670K? (wait i see they want me to drop more coin on a 4770k for that)

GA-Z87-HD3 is this the best chice of mobo?

how much better would a

GA-Z87X-UD3H
GA-Z87X-UD5H
GA-Z87X-OC
GA-Z87X-OC Force (this is alot more expensive and has active cooling on the board)

and is ther anything coming soon on the critical on the horizon that i should delay this upgrade for (ddr4 etc) as my current system does seem ok, i could skip this altogtehr and just upgrade the vga and wait untill next year to do the mobo, cpu and ram

 

[Ketchup]

There is always something on the horizon. I would recommend go ahead and get the card you want, then see if the system still feels lacking.

 

[Nec_V20]

So skt 1150 is the way to go

how come there is no hyperthreading on the 4670K? (wait i see they want me to drop more coin on a 4770k for that)

GA-Z87-HD3 is this the best chice of mobo?

how much better would a

GA-Z87X-UD3H
GA-Z87X-UD5H
GA-Z87X-OC
GA-Z87X-OC Force (this is alot more expensive and has active cooling on the board)

and is ther anything coming soon on the critical on the horizon that i should delay this upgrade for (ddr4 etc) as my current system does seem ok, i could skip this altogtehr and just upgrade the vga and wait untill next year to do the mobo, cpu and ram

The UD3H, UD4H and UD5H are differentiated by the added features as opposed to the basic quality of the parts. I went for the UD5H because of the dual Ethernet on board.

The new generation of Gigabyte boards have cured the Loadline Calibration problems they had on previous generations of their motherboards.

I left the OC versions of the z87x family out of consideration because I simply did not need what they were offering.

If you are going to wait until the next new thing comes along then you are never going to upgrade.

You also have realise that with the new technology you are going to be the gamma tester for those systems.

Personally I am very happy with the stability of my i7-4770k and it is the first one I have ever built for myself which has been totally devoid of irritating quirks.

 

[VirtualLarry]

One discovery I made about the i7-4770k I have came about by accident. The Corsair H100i which I had stopped working. Whilst I was waiting for it to be replaced I could run windows and do things like browse the Internet to post here or run a text processor and work on documents without any cooling on the CPU whatsoever. This is the first time I have been able to run a CPU bareback for about 15 years.

Not very wise. Those chips put in quite an effort not to burn themselves up without a heatsink.

 

[Nec_V20]

Not very wise. Those chips put in quite an effort not to burn themselves up without a heatsink.

In normal usage, like updating the OS or browsing or using the text processor, the temps never went above 60 degrees without the cooler.

They crept to just over 70 when I looked at YouTube, but still remained stable and I was running it like this for about an hour.

 

[VirtualLarry]

In normal usage, like updating the OS or browsing or using the text processor, the temps never went above 60 degrees without the cooler.

They crept to just over 70 when I looked at YouTube, but still remained stable and I was running it like this for about an hour.

For a quad-core, that just amazes me!

 

[st_7]

I remember, couple of years back I've used my Cor2Duo E4400(not sure exact model though) without a fan for 2-3 days during winter season(for us winter season means the temperature hardly drops below 22-23 degrees centigrades & averages around 28 degree centigrades). I didn't do this intentionally or for testing purpose, I forgot to put the fan after I cleaned the dust from the computer. And on the third day I experienced some very light freezes(normal users wouldn't even notice it) upon heavy browsing I've done. When I looked inside system, I was surprised & cursed myself for doing so(for not putting fan on the processor). I know some of you may say I'm lucky, but generally Intel processor much more heat efficient. But still that processor going like a champ(even after serving me more than 6 years), although I'm not using it now, recently I gave it to my relative for his turn to get hell out of that processor.

 

[Nec_V20]

For a quad-core, that just amazes me!

I was pretty gobsmacked myself.

 

[TheGoat Eater]

I would throw my hat in the ring now with the recommendation of a 4670 and an MSI Z87 MPOWER. I am currently running this on my testing rig / gamer (though with a 4670 ES for now). Great performance at a good price point - with all the features I could want as well. Rock solid stable boards with great quality, and the MPOWER looks great too

 

[schmuckley]

I'm going to say 4670K
Biostar Hi-Fi z87x (cheap and sturdy..full-featured)
and some G.Skill 2400 cas9 or 2600 cas10 RAM
Haswell is fast..I was impressed.
Oh..I'm selling a slightly greased z87x-OC on OCN n [h]
It's a good board

 

[ratjacket]

So if socket 1150 is new will there be more processors for it in the future? i.e > 4cores

I dont need an IGP is this the best choice or have intel got another socket up ther sleve (lol probly 5) to replace 2011?

So if i went 1150 and a 4670K

GA-Z87X-OC appears to have less heat sinks on the board compared to the GA-Z87X-UD3H

I dont really need the features of the OC, i dont need to push mobo buttons to oc etc

The question is will the UDH3 be a better choice for stable 24/7 OC, since it appears to have more heatsinks on the board

edit: i havnt thought about mATX
GA-Z87M-3DH $170
G1 Sniper m5 $368
GA-Z87MX-3DH $300

are these any good can they overclock or do they have any problems?

so im gettign closer

skt 2011
UP4 + 4820K $816.50
PRO: 64GB max ram, has hyperthreading, has cpus with >4 cores atm, possiably has more cpus to come
CON: Price, would need new heatsink or diffcult to mode xp-120 to fit

SKT 1150
UD3H + 4670K $624.45
PRO: New platform, could upgrade to hyperthreaded quad core later, Heat
CON: 32GB max ram, may not be any more cpus for this socket, useless IGP i wont use, would have to mod XP-120 to fit

AM3+
990FXA rev 4.0 + FX8350 $533.60
PRO: Price, XP-120 will fit with off the shelf bracket, 3 or four higher cpus to fit, More cores so possiably better in future
CON: performance (but still better than core 2 duo at 4.0GHz?), heat from OC, 32Gb of ram max, maybe no more cpus for AM3+, PCIe 2.0

any one have anything to add to my list, what ever system i get for a start i will get 2x8GB of ram

with 1150 having IGP on the cpu i wonder if this will turn out to be the budget socket in the future competeing against AMDs FM line

alot has changed since i last upgraded