Upgrade CPU from Phenom 810 to 960T or 965

[robmurphy]

Anyone have any thoughts on the above upgrade. The reason for upgrading now is that in another few weeks or so I will not be able to upgrade.

The PC runs genuine Win 7 Pro and Linux

The mother board is a Gigabyte one with the 790 chipset and is compatible with the 960T and the 965. Power is not an issue as the PSU is about 500 watts.

Graphics is an 4650 PCI-E card.

I do not use the PC for gaming, but it does dual boot and I will be doing more Linux work. This may well involve compiling the kernel.

I would also like to do more on the virtual side, but this is limited as the chipset does not support the IOMMU extensions to allow virtual machines direct access to the hardware. Not having the IOMMU will also mean a higher CPU load.

The cache on the 810 will not increase even though the motherboard has the southbridge with ACC.

Rob

 

[xylem]

If you want to try unlocking cores, go with the 960T (You could possibly get 5 or 6 cores out of that CPU, as there are 2 disabled). If you are going to overclock, either one is a fine bet. I don't know for sure, but i'd expect that, at default, the 965 is a bit faster, because of its clockspeed advantage, so if you don't want to try unlocking or overclocking, the 965 might be a bit better.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

It sounds like you might be better off with a new 970 mobo and heatsink, then O/C that 810 to 3.3/3.4Ghz. Either way you would end up with a Phenom II X4 @ 3.3/3.4Ghz for roughly the same cost, but the new mobo would have better performance and IOMMU.

 

[robmurphy]

There is no point in upgrading the present motherboard.

I can overclock the 810 if needed.

I will be getting an Intel motherboard and I5 or I7 based system later. I'm just waiting for the dust to settle. Its not clear which boards do VT-D. Even on the Intel motherboards this information is not stable. I'm also waiting for the Ivy Bridge CPUs to come down in price, and again for it to be clear which ones support VT-X and VT-D. In a few months it may also be clearer what motherboard manufacturers support VT-D in their BIOS. From my recent research even though a chipset supports VT-D the BIOS on the motherboard does not support it, or you need a custom BIOS.

The reason for asking about the upgrade is as said, either upgrade now or do not bother. My instinct is to go for the 960T, but there may be good reasons why the 965 is better. I'm not concerned about the small difference in clock speed.

Rob.

 

[blckgrffn]

What are you planning on using VT-D for? Are you passing through a RAID controller for ZFS or something?

If you don't have a plan for VT-D then it is a worthless check-box feature.

 

[robmurphy]

The VT-D is for networking.

The main interest is routers, and various telephony platforms. All of these are Linux (usually CentOS) based.

VT-D with the correct intel NICs can make a difference in throughput. Also what is done on the Intel platform may well end up on other virtual platforms that also support VT-D.

This is going off at a tangent however. The concern at the moment is the upgrade to the present AMD AM3 based system. This does not have the IOMMU, and I'm not looking for a way to add that.

What I was hoping was information on the different upgrade processors, and if there were any particular issues to be aware of.

Rob.

 

[blckgrffn]

The VT-D is for networking.

The main interest is routers, and various telephony platforms. All of these are Linux (usually CentOS) based.

VT-D with the correct intel NICs can make a difference in throughput. Also what is done on the Intel platform may well end up on other virtual platforms that also support VT-D.

This is going off at a tangent however. The concern at the moment is the upgrade to the present AMD AM3 based system. This does not have the IOMMU, and I'm not looking for a way to add that.

What I was hoping was information on the different upgrade processors, and if there were any particular issues to be aware of.

Rob.

Well, VT-D can be used for a lot of things, really - but for most tinkerers it is a non-issue.

What kind of differences in throughput are you expecting? I am simply curious.

If it isn't an issue for you then that's good.

Does your board bios support the CPUs? If so, you're good to go.

 

[robmurphy]

The VT-D will allow the virtual machine direct access to the IO for the hardware. Without VT-D the network IO must via the host system, and then the host system does the IO.

In this way VT-D removes several copies of the data, and it will probably avoid some context switches if they are used.

As said this digresses. I know I will be moving to Intel. The Intel system will be setup for work on virtualization.

At present the priority is to make the most of the present AMD based system. I would have thought the increase in clock speed and the large increase in L3 cache could make a bit difference.

I'm also not sure if the 960T had any architectural improvements over the 810 and 965. That was one of the main reasons for asking.

For many of the things I do like file compression, compilation, and now virtualization that will involve copying data many times, I would have thought cache would make a big difference. Both the 965 and the 960T have 6 MB of L3 as opposed to 2 MB for the 810.

Rob.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

I'm also not sure if the 960T had any architectural improvements over the 810 and 965. That was one of the main reasons for asking.

Both the 965 and the 960T have 6 MB of L3 as opposed to 2 MB for the 810.

Cache and Turbo Boost (960T) is pretty much all that's different.

That's why I suggested the new mobo - the 965/960T would be mildly crippled on the older mobo/chipset, where the 810 would get a nice boost from a new mobo/chipset, especially with IOMMU (Asus M5A97 series definitely has IOMMU). Overclocking the 810 would give it the performance of a stock 965/960t.

 

[JWade]

newegg right now has the 965 for 99.95 with a coupon code, cant go wrong at that price imo

 

[robmurphy]

As said there is no point in upgrading the motherboard. I might as well start on building a new AMD based system. I'm going Intel for the next one. The price of the motherboard mentioned is more than an Intel motherboard with VT-D shown at the moment. Thats with the new chipset as well.

The 810 does not overclock that well. I also value system stability very highly so I will over clock, but it has to be rock stable. From what I can remember the system is already over clocked as far as it will go using 24 hours prime 95 as a test. If prime 95 reports an error over the test period I consider that a failure, even if the system still appears to be OK.

The upgrades are limited to increased memory, possible SSD for boot drive (can be reused), and CPU.

This system will also probably be my main system for normal we browsing, watching films, MS office once the new Intel system is ready.



The main questions are:

Are there any big differences between the 965 and the 960T other than clock speed and power consumption?

Will the increase in clock speed from 2.6 Ghz to 3.0 Ghz make much difference.

Will the increase in L3 cache make much difference to data copying, file compression, file transcoding, large compilations (e.g. linux kernel).



I know there is a chance I will be able to unlock 1 or more cores on the 960T, but I'm not basing the decision on that as its a definite maybe.

In all fairness the system is very stable. Its only gone down when the mains connection has failed (power cut and unplugging the wrong mains lead). The only "problem" with the system is its so quite you cannot actually tell its running. I have not had to open the case since building it.

Rob.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Between the 960T and 965, the differences are just clock speed and Turbo Core. Check the Performance tab for benchmark comparisons (they're basically equal).

If you live near a Micro Center, you could get an X6 1045T for $100 (in-store only) and O/C. That would easily outperform the quads in anything multi-threaded. I have mine O/C'ed to 3.7Ghz and it can do 3.9Ghz stable, but that's too hot for my cooler. The X6 has become hard to find, but TigerDirect also has the 1045T for $130 and they do ship. You may even find one on Ebay or in FS/T forums.

Compare 965 and 1045T

Compare 965 vs X6 @ 3.3GHZ (1045T should easily hit 3.24GHz or better, even with stock cooler)

 

[nyker96]

I'd recommend just overclock the 810 to about 3,2ghz or so. This will roughly equal a 960T stock. A real upgrade for your situation would be an x6 in my opinion. but since you don't seem to be doing anything that requires loads of threading, I cannot really see you take full advantage of even a 810 at stock much less x6. Linux doesn't require that much horsepower.

 

[robmurphy]

A linux desktop may not need much horsepower. Compiling large builds, L3 routing and load balancing at gigabit speed, generating 50 to 60K BHCA SIP call attempts, large file compressions, and running multiple virtual machines doing all of the above can well require shed loads of horsepower.

Often what the linux kernel reports is not that good an indication of load. Latency in packet processing is a better indicator.

Filtering Ethernet capture is also processor intensive. The machine may be doing some or all of this. Virtual machine to virtual machine comms should not be greatly affected by the lack of IOMMU. It will still involve the copy, but I think this would happen even with IOMMU

For the moment I have ordered the 960T. I will be upgrading the memory to at least 10 GB DDR3. WIN 7 will have to be reloaded as at present its 32 bit.

I hope this time I can load Win7 in a single partition instead of 2 as it did when I built this machine.

Another 2 to 6 months and I should start getting together the Intel based system. As stated it will need to have VT-D. The quad port PCI-E x4 Intel card will move to the new machine, or another will be added. At present the motherboard looks like it will be mATX but with an Intel NIC on board and PCI-E X16 and PCI-E x 4 expansion slots. If I use Xeon I can use the PCI-E X16 for the graphics, and the PCI-E x4 for the quad port Ethernet card. The motherboard choice will become clearer when its clear what boards work for ESXi, and what boards have VT-D. I may get a server board, but this will depend on cost. At present the price of the server board is enough to pay for the mATX board and a Quad core I5, or Xeon. This is one of the reasons I want to wait 2 to 6 months.

Rob.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

I hope this time I can load Win7 in a single partition instead of 2 as it did when I built this machine.

I hate that, and just now looked into how to do it. Dammit, that is easy! I wish I had known this...

 

[robmurphy]

The other advantage to re-installing Win7 now is that at present there is no licensed software on the machine, other than Win7. The Win7 was the full retail one so re-installing it on 64 bit will not be a problem. I did ask MS about this before buying it.

I'll probably put MS office on the machine after re-installing Win7. I have MS office 2007 home which I bought officially. This is unused.

I'll visit the local shop for the memory upgrade once I have received the new processor. I'll also need a clean out on the disk.

Rob.

 

[nyker96]

A linux desktop may not need much horsepower. Compiling large builds, L3 routing and load balancing at gigabit speed, generating 50 to 60K BHCA SIP call attempts, large file compressions, and running multiple virtual machines doing all of the above can well require shed loads of horsepower.

Often what the linux kernel reports is not that good an indication of load. Latency in packet processing is a better indicator.

Filtering Ethernet capture is also processor intensive. The machine may be doing some or all of this. Virtual machine to virtual machine comms should not be greatly affected by the lack of IOMMU. It will still involve the copy, but I think this would happen even with IOMMU

For the moment I have ordered the 960T. I will be upgrading the memory to at least 10 GB DDR3. WIN 7 will have to be reloaded as at present its 32 bit.

I hope this time I can load Win7 in a single partition instead of 2 as it did when I built this machine.

Another 2 to 6 months and I should start getting together the Intel based system. As stated it will need to have VT-D. The quad port PCI-E x4 Intel card will move to the new machine, or another will be added. At present the motherboard looks like it will be mATX but with an Intel NIC on board and PCI-E X16 and PCI-E x 4 expansion slots. If I use Xeon I can use the PCI-E X16 for the graphics, and the PCI-E x4 for the quad port Ethernet card. The motherboard choice will become clearer when its clear what boards work for ESXi, and what boards have VT-D. I may get a server board, but this will depend on cost. At present the price of the server board is enough to pay for the mATX board and a Quad core I5, or Xeon. This is one of the reasons I want to wait 2 to 6 months.

Rob.

if you are doing so much cpu intensive stuff, I'd say just buy a new intel system. You might even need to look at intel socket 2011 cpus since your need seem to be quite large.

 

[soccerballtux]

unless you OC new CPU to 4ghz (easy if 960T) and are compiling tons and unlock the CPU to 6 cores (they pretty much all unlock from what I can tell-- lot of people have success it seems???) you wouldn't notice it.

For daily usage might notice the 4ghz OC.

 

[robmurphy]

As I said I will be building a new Intel system.

If there is a ready made server that is ultra quiet on idle I may consider it.

I had thought about the socket 2011 systems. Much will depend on price and cash flow. Real question is that will 32 GB of memory be enough. From memory the new Ivy bridge boards from Intel have 4 slots that will take up to 8 GB memory each.

Another point is at present 2011 is Sandy Bridge only.

I'll also be watching for any cheap deals. These do come up occaisionally at the supplier we use at work.

Case wise is already sorted,I have a new Intel server case complete with fans PSU ect ready for this. It will take mATX, ATX, and the extended ATX so whatever motherboard I go with should fit. Its a pedestal case not rack mount so it has nice big 12 CM fans. It also has many mounting points for drives. Even empty it weighs a ton.

I'll update this thread with the results of the AMD based system. If I have queries about the Intel system I'll start a new thread once I start building it.

Rob.

 

[soccerballtux]

posts were awfully wordy, didn't read all of them, sorry...

 

[nenforcer]

Don't expect any Ivy Bridge price cuts before October - Q4, when AMD releases the Vishera AMD FX 83XX series cpus, if there will be any at all.

 

[beginner99]

IMHO a waste of money. In real world usage an SSD (which you could reuse) would give you a lot more. Of course CPU only stuff won't be affected but your host OS responsiveness will be much better.

 

[robmurphy]

This is one of the reasons I want to leave the new platform for a good few months. The new AMD chip looks promising, but then when bulldozer was announced it sounded good. I'm sure there will be quite a few tests comparing Ivy Bridge and Vishera. Only down side is that Vishera looks very much like a desktop processor so the test may well not include virtualization.

Rob.

 

[abbcccus]

It looks like you can pick up a 965 for about $76.50 at superbiiz.com. Shipping is about $2.50 to me, so around $79 in all.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?...EWjk2NUdN&c=CJ

Use code: GOTHAM for 15% off. (Thanks to sl2468d on slickdeals)

 

[blckgrffn]

It looks like you can pick up a 965 for about $76.50 at superbiiz.com. Shipping is about $2.50 to me, so around $79 in all.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?...EWjk2NUdN&c=CJ

Use code: GOTHAM for 15% off. (Thanks to sl2468d on slickdeals)

:thumbsup:

All the clock speed you'll ever want from a Phenom 2 CPU