Upgrade/Fresh build for moderate gaming

[jfunk]

Man, it's been a while and I'm out of the loop. Not sure what's going on with all these chipset options.

Anyway, my machine is starting to get a little long in the tooth and I'm not sure how to proceed on a limited budget.

Current setup:
Core2 E8400 3Ghz
Asus P5Q Pro
4GB (2X2) Mushkin (996587)
EVGA 8800GT 512 stock
Win7 Pro 64
1920x1080 Viewsonic
Seasonic SS-700HM 700W PS

Metro 2033 chokes on pretty much all DX11 settings. Civ V gets kinda sloppy when a lot is going on. Planning on playing Brink, Skyrim, and Dragon Age II. I'm not desperate for the highest FPS possible, just able to run smoothly at Mid-High area settings at 1920X1080.

Do you think just a GPU upgrade would hold me over for a while? Obviously this would be my first choice if there are still some legs in this CPU. Will this CPU & PS otherwise be able to run a 560Ti or 6950 sufficiently for a decent performance boost?

I'm in the US. I don't do anything other than general & gaming (no graphics work or video editing, etc). I'm a big fan of EVGA because their support has always been awesome, but not enough to pass on a superior ATI card for the same money (Brand recommendations for ATI cards?).

If this system is too old to handle a new GPU and I need a full upgrade, I'm thinking of a Core i5 2500, 8GB of cheap G-Skill or Mushkin PC1333, and I have no idea where to go on the motherboard. H61,P67,H67? I don't overclock and won't ever be running SLI/Crossfire. Might be nice to have the IGP to fall back on in the event of a GPU failure or for eventually using the parts in a media center down the road though.

Max budget for the upgrade would be around $800, although the lower it is the easier it will be to get it past the wife. I would plan on reusing everything besides CPU/Mobo/RAM/GPU, assuming my Seasonic PS is sufficient and I can fit everything in my Antec Super Lanboy, which I still love.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[BoomerD]

Man, it's been a while and I'm out of the loop. Not sure what's going on with all these chipset options.

Anyway, my machine is starting to get a little long in the tooth and I'm not sure how to proceed on a limited budget.

Current setup:
Core2 E8400 3Ghz
Asus P5Q Pro
4GB (2X2) Mushkin (996587)
EVGA 8800GT 512 stock
Win7 Pro 64
1920x1080 Viewsonic
Seasonic SS-700HM 700W PS

Metro 2033 chokes on pretty much all DX11 settings. Civ V gets kinda sloppy when a lot is going on. Planning on playing Brink, Skyrim, and Dragon Age II. I'm not desperate for the highest FPS possible, just able to run smoothly at Mid-High area settings at 1920X1080.

Do you think just a GPU upgrade would hold me over for a while? Obviously this would be my first choice if there are still some legs in this CPU. Will this CPU & PS otherwise be able to run a 560Ti or 6950 sufficiently for a decent performance boost?

I'm in the US. I don't do anything other than general & gaming (no graphics work or video editing, etc). I'm a big fan of EVGA because their support has always been awesome, but not enough to pass on a superior ATI card for the same money (Brand recommendations for ATI cards?).

If this system is too old to handle a new GPU and I need a full upgrade, I'm thinking of a Core i5 2500, 8GB of cheap G-Skill or Mushkin PC1333, and I have no idea where to go on the motherboard. H61,P67,H67? I don't overclock and won't ever be running SLI/Crossfire. Might be nice to have the IGP to fall back on in the event of a GPU failure or for eventually using the parts in a media center down the road though.

Max budget for the upgrade would be around $800, although the lower it is the easier it will be to get it past the wife. I would plan on reusing everything besides CPU/Mobo/RAM/GPU, assuming my Seasonic PS is sufficient and I can fit everything in my Antec Super Lanboy, which I still love.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

You definitely don't want one of the "H" series motherboards. Those are for using the on-board video of the processor, plus they're not overclocker friendly. You want a "P" series board.

Your PSU should still be good...it has plenty of "horsepower," as long as the caps are still good. (they SHOULD be...but you didn't say how old it is)

Is your current processor overclocked at all? I'm not that familiar with the core2 processors...I skipped that batch...went from P4 to i5. You MIGHT get a great boost by just upgrading the processor to a faster one. (core2 quad) Check the For Sale/Trade forums and see what's available there.

 

[stahlhart]

I'd probably try the GPU-only route first, but upgrade if the results look CPU-limited. You could just move the new card(s) over in that event.

Your current build doesn't seem anywhere near as old and non- upgradeable as my previous one was (Barton, AGP, budget ASRock mobo with crippled SATA ports, etc. :| ).

 

[Termie]

You definitely don't want one of the "H" series motherboards. Those are for using the on-board video of the processor, plus they're not overclocker friendly. You want a "P" series board.

Your PSU should still be good...it has plenty of "horsepower," as long as the caps are still good. (they SHOULD be...but you didn't say how old it is)

Is your current processor overclocked at all? I'm not that familiar with the core2 processors...I skipped that batch...went from P4 to i5. You MIGHT get a great boost by just upgrading the processor to a faster one. (core2 quad) Check the For Sale/Trade forums and see what's available there.

Read the OP's post more carefully. He wants built-in video to fall back on, and he doesn't want to overclock. Therefore, he should only consider H61/H67. The difference between H61 and H67 are minor. A list is available here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4241/h67-a-triumvirate-of-tantalizing-technology

This is assuming he wants to upgrade after considering the following...

I'd probably try the GPU-only route first, but upgrade if the results look CPU-limited. You could just move the new card(s) over in that event.

Your current build doesn't seem anywhere near as old and non- upgradeable as my previous one was (Barton, AGP, budget ASRock mobo with crippled SATA ports, etc. :| ).

He would be CPU-limited in some games. I upgraded my e8400 system from an 8800gt to a GTX460-768 and definitely saw benefits, but in CPU-heavy games like Bad Company 2, I'm more or less capped at 45fps by my CPU, which is about what the GTX460 can put out at high detail levels. So it's a good balance. Other games will not be so limited, but I still wouldn't go above a GTX460 1GB or HD6850 with that system. Those are available for ~$160, and any more money than that just isn't a good investment.

Now, you'll want to do some research on your specific games. For instance, Civ5 is definitely CPU-limited at 1920x1200 on a dual core: http://www.techspot.com/review/320-civilization-v-performance/page12.html

On the other hand, DA2 isn't as cpu-dependent: http://www.techspot.com/review/374-dragon-age-2-performance-test/page8.html

So there you have it. Let us know what you decide!

 

[jfunk]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.

He would be CPU-limited in some games. I upgraded my e8400 system from an 8800gt to a GTX460-768 and definitely saw benefits, but in CPU-heavy games like Bad Company 2, I'm more or less capped at 45fps by my CPU, which is about what the GTX460 can put out at high detail levels. So it's a good balance. Other games will not be so limited, but I still wouldn't go above a GTX460 1GB or HD6850 with that system. Those are available for ~$160, and any more money than that just isn't a good investment.

Thanks, it's nice to hear from somebody that did the same upgrade. This has I think convinced me to at least try the GPU upgrade first. As stahlhart mentioned, it can't hurt. I can always just move the GPU over if it doesn't cut it. I also want to get at least 1GB of RAM on it so I can take advantage of stuff like the hi-res pack for DAII. If 45FPS is the worst case scenario, I'm fine with that for the time being.

I may go with a 6950/560Ti anyway even though I'd be CPU limited now, as I'll be annoyed if I wind up with a CPU upgrade within a year and then wish I had the better GPU to match. Do you know if my PS will run a new P67/H67 board? Any funky new power connectors added to these guys that wasn't around in 09/2008 when I bought it?

 

[BoomerD]

Read the OP's post more carefully. He wants built-in video to fall back on, and he doesn't want to overclock. Therefore, he should only consider H61/H67. The difference between H61 and H67 are minor. A list is available here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4241/h67-a-triumvirate-of-tantalizing-technology

This is assuming he wants to upgrade after considering the following...



He would be CPU-limited in some games. I upgraded my e8400 system from an 8800gt to a GTX460-768 and definitely saw benefits, but in CPU-heavy games like Bad Company 2, I'm more or less capped at 45fps by my CPU, which is about what the GTX460 can put out at high detail levels. So it's a good balance. Other games will not be so limited, but I still wouldn't go above a GTX460 1GB or HD6850 with that system. Those are available for ~$160, and any more money than that just isn't a good investment.

Now, you'll want to do some research on your specific games. For instance, Civ5 is definitely CPU-limited at 1920x1200 on a dual core: http://www.techspot.com/review/320-civilization-v-performance/page12.html

On the other hand, DA2 isn't as cpu-dependent: http://www.techspot.com/review/374-dragon-age-2-performance-test/page8.html

So there you have it. Let us know what you decide!

I saw the "IGP as a fall back" comment. From everything I've seen and read, he's going to be very disappointed in gaming performance with only the integrated graphics...Sure, he can probably run some games with it...but the quality probably won't be great.
If he was using the computer solely for office applications, then the IGP would be a good way to go.

 

[Termie]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.



Thanks, it's nice to hear from somebody that did the same upgrade. This has I think convinced me to at least try the GPU upgrade first. As stahlhart mentioned, it can't hurt. I can always just move the GPU over if it doesn't cut it. I also want to get at least 1GB of RAM on it so I can take advantage of stuff like the hi-res pack for DAII. If 45FPS is the worst case scenario, I'm fine with that for the time being.

I may go with a 6950/560Ti anyway even though I'd be CPU limited now, as I'll be annoyed if I wind up with a CPU upgrade within a year and then wish I had the better GPU to match. Do you know if my PS will run a new P67/H67 board? Any funky new power connectors added to these guys that wasn't around in 09/2008 when I bought it?

No, your PSU is fine...it isn't that old! Amazingly, we still hook the MB up with chunky cables (I'd love a new standard for that, by the way).

If you think you'll upgrade the system sooner rather than later, a 6950 is not a bad idea, but it will not reach its potential on your system in most games. By the way, I would recommend the 6950 over the 560Ti based on its superior performance and lower power use, unless you don't have room for a ~10.5" card. The 560Ti is about 9". Also, for future-proofing (since you'll be keeping this card for a new system), buy a 2GB version, like this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125356

Proof on performance: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/330?vs=293

I saw the "IGP as a fall back" comment. From everything I've seen and read, he's going to be very disappointed in gaming performance with only the integrated graphics...Sure, he can probably run some games with it...but the quality probably won't be great.
If he was using the computer solely for office applications, then the IGP would be a good way to go.

Fair point. IGP is definitely not for gaming.

 

[jfunk]

Just to be clear, I know I wouldn't be gaming on the IGP, I just meant as something to keep the machine running on during a GPU RMA or something like that. I was thinking the value of it would more be about the possibility to eventually use the mobo in a media center PC once I'm done with it, where the IGP wouldn't be an issue.

Size is a factor in my Antec Super Lanboy case. 10.5" is almost the exact amount of room I have between the back and the drive cage, so I don't think I'm fitting one of those without some cutting. I know that's an old case, but I still love it. Simple layout, easy to work on, and light as a feather. The straps & handle make it so easy to grab and take to a friend's house. It's lived through three full upgrades now. I guess it has to go eventually, but I don't see too much comparable these days.

Ah well...maybe I will just grab a GTX460 for now. If that can get me through this years games on this CPU, I'll be happy with it. I'd hate to settle for 560Ti just because it's shorter when it's only $20-30 cheaper than a 2GB 6950.

 

[Termie]

Just to be clear, I know I wouldn't be gaming on the IGP, I just meant as something to keep the machine running on during a GPU RMA or something like that. I was thinking the value of it would more be about the possibility to eventually use the mobo in a media center PC once I'm done with it, where the IGP wouldn't be an issue.

Size is a factor in my Antec Super Lanboy case. 10.5" is almost the exact amount of room I have between the back and the drive cage, so I don't think I'm fitting one of those without some cutting. I know that's an old case, but I still love it. Simple layout, easy to work on, and light as a feather. The straps & handle make it so easy to grab and take to a friend's house. It's lived through three full upgrades now. I guess it has to go eventually, but I don't see too much comparable these days.

Ah well...maybe I will just grab a GTX460 for now. If that can get me through this years games on this CPU, I'll be happy with it. I'd hate to settle for 560Ti just because it's shorter when it's only $20-30 cheaper than a 2GB 6950.

Sounds good. At this point, I'd go for the HD6850 over the GTX460 unless you can find the full GTX460 1GB (not 768 or SE models) for less.

 

[jfunk]

Any brand recommendations for ATI cards?

My last ATI card was back when you could still get them ATI branded.

 

[mfenn]

I'd probably try the GPU-only route first, but upgrade if the results look CPU-limited. You could just move the new card(s) over in that event.

Your current build doesn't seem anywhere near as old and non- upgradeable as my previous one was (Barton, AGP, budget ASRock mobo with crippled SATA ports, etc. :| ).

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

OP, it's a bummer that you can't fit a 10.5" card into your current case. Honestly, I would recommend grabbing a new reasonably-priced case like the HAF 912 so that you won't have to compromise on the GPU.

 

[mfenn]

Any brand recommendations for ATI cards?

My last ATI card was back when you could still get them ATI branded.

Powercolor, Sapphire, XFX, Gigabyte, MSI, and ASUS are all good.

 

[Termie]

Powercolor, Sapphire, XFX, Gigabyte, MSI, and ASUS are all good.

XFX is known for its great warranty (double lifetime), MSI and Asus have the most innovative heatsink designs.

 

[BoomerD]

I'm happy as hell with my EVGA GTX460 SC 1 Gb card. Reasonably quiet, doesn't get TOO hot under normal gaming, no problems so far.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130568