Upgrade me

[Ste4en]

Current System:
IWILL KA266; (onboard sound)
512 MB Crucial PC2100;
ATA Radeon 64DDR;
Toshiba DVD;
40GB Western Digital, 7600prm;
AMD 1.333 MHz;
Swiftech MC370 heat sink with Paft fan;
Antec SX830 case with fans.
Windows 98

I want to upgrade - my biggest beef with the existing system, is the (1) noise and (2) unstable - lots of lock-ups. It is 2 years old. Question is what can I keep and what should I upgrade to.

My needs are:
Silence & stabilty & Intel. I play games sometimes eg flight simulators etc - the quality I have with the old system is fine.

Any suggestions on some reliable simple quality kit appreciated.

Thanks

Steve

 

[Boonesmi]

what powersupply are you using?

if you want to keep the noise level down just get a big copper hsf that uses 80mm fans (something like the thermalright slk-800 like im using is near silent with a low rpm fan and cools very well)

most will suggest an nforce2 motherboard, but i personally really like the kt600 boards (tons of features for not a lot of $$ and the performance is just a very small notch below the nforce2... plus the kt600 is very mature and rock stable



im not sure what kind of price range you are looking for, but my personal suggestion if you want to keep the cost low

Soltek KT600-RL ($78 shipped at newegg) comes with all the goodies, including Sata and via vinyl audio (which is higher quality then on any of the nforce2 boards)
athlonxp 2500+ ($86 shipped at newegg)
sell your pc2100 and get some pc3200

and you can keep most everything else from your earlier system

 

[Ste4en]

thanks for your suggestions.
Power Supply is the std Antec 300W unit that came with the case. Could be part of the noise problem? Is it big enough for the upgrade.

 

[Boonesmi]

300w antec would probably be ok for the upgrade, but its far from a sure thing... if your not on a real tight budget a new powersupply wouldnt be a bad idea

one of the nice things about kt600 based boards is that they are a little more forgiving when using questionable powersupplies and generic ram, compared to nforce2 based boards

 

[Boonesmi]

and the only way to find out which fans are prodicing most of the noise is to physically stop fans (while the system is running) i usually use a folded up piece of paper and stick it in the fan till it stops (dont use something hard or it might chip the fan blades)

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: Boonesmi
and the only way to find out which fans are prodicing most of the noise is to physically stop fans (while the system is running) i usually use a folded up piece of paper and stick it in the fan till it stops (dont use something hard or it might chip the fan blades)

Now that's a scary thought! I hope you were kidding. Better to unplug case fans, one by one first. Just make sure to do this with the system off and with the side of the case off. Get things down to just the PS and HSF. You should be able to tell which of those two is producing most of your noise.
As to the current PS and upgrades, I'd plan on replacing it as you may end up needing more for higher end system.

 

[Boonesmi]

Now that's a scary thought! I hope you were kidding

im not sure why you think its a scary thought? and nope i wasnt kidding
stopping them for long periods of time may cause damage, but just stopping them for a couple seconds doesnt cause any problems



also you cant just unplug powersupply fans, and the easiest way to tell exactly how much noise is coming from them is to stop them and then release them while its running (you get instant feedback on how much reletive noise is coming from where)

 

[Buz2b]

I wasn't referring to PS fans. You'll notice I said it was "best to unplug case fans, one by one". Second, I also mentioned getting the system "down" to just the PS and HSF. With the side of the case off, it should be very evident which is causing the most noise. All of this was mentioned.
Last, I can't believe you would condone sticking things in the fans to stop them! Yeah, maybe just stopping them for a second or two might not do any harm but that is just plain nuts. Too many "what if's" involved and there; especially when you are talking about the PS. If you are comfortable doing so, (and it sounds as if you are) that's fine; I can respect that. But there is no way I would do so, nor would I feel comfortable recommending it to anyone. Although they might take a bit longer, there are safer ways to accomplish this. Differing personal opinions I guess. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Ste4en]

Thanks for the help, all.

I risked putting things in the blades and have found the following - from noisiest to quietest:

80mm Antec fan over the HD drive, pulling air through restricted cover.
tiny flat fan on the Radeon video card (higher frequency)
CPU (80mm)
Rear exhaust fan (80mm)
Power Supply

So I disconnected the HD fan.
I will try and replace the tiny fan on the video card.

Now will an AMD processor create more heat than a pentium processor.

Will Windows XP instead of my Windows 98 help lock ups.

Thanks

Steve

 

[Boonesmi]

when comparing pent3 vs athlon (tbird) the tbirds generated more heat... but that has changed with the p4 and the athlonxp, now the p4 puts out more heat

xp2500+ puts out 68 watts of heat
1.33ghz tbird puts out 70w
pent4 2.5ghz puts out 77w

here is a link to calc heat output http://www.benchtest.com/calc.html


and ive found WinXP to be much more stable with win98
i run an athlonxp 2500+ (barton) overclocked to xp3200+ speed at default voltage. i havent had a single lockup since i put it together several months ago. i run WinXP

when i used win98 se my system was pretty stable, but it was normal for it to lockup on occasion

 

[Ste4en]

One downside to the Mobo might be the USB ports - only 2?, the specs say 8 x USB Ports (two integrated, six via optional cables), Do you know what the optional cables are?

Thanks

 

[Boonesmi]

just means it has the 2 ports in the back pannel and then the motherboard has connectors for the other 6 port

so they can easily be hooked up to a case with front usb ports, or you can use one of your expansion slots (they are like $4 at your local pc store) here is a pic of what they look like link

 

[Buz2b]

You might want to get a low speed fan to replace that Antec fan so you don't lose out on cooling. Something like a panaflo L1A or any other low dBa fan will work. The panaflo is practically silent. I wouldn't go completely without it as it was undoubtedly your source of cooler intake air. If you really get daring you could see if there was a way to get rid of the restrictions on that fan. If there is a metal "grill" covering it (behind the plastic bezel) you can cut it away. Some I have done by going around the edges with a set of wire cutters and some muscle. Others that are a bit more hefty might require something like a dremel. Bottom line; do what you can to keep some cool air intake.
Boonesmi mentioned a good option for the USB ports. If you want to move them to the front you have other options such as Antec's EasyUSB that fits in a 5.25" bay. I believe NewEgg also has some that fit into an extra floppy bay (if your case has one).

 

[Ste4en]

Thanks all for the input...

I am probably going with the suggestions just making a shopping list - a few more Q's

Soltek KT600-RL
athlonxp 2500
512MB pc3200

SLK800 with Papst 8412N/2GL (one (maybe two) for the case and one for the CPU.) I read they do 20Dba

Looking for a Heat sink to replace the fan on my ATA Radeon 64DDR.

How about the FSB part - there are 266 and 333 options which should I get.
This is from NewEgg: $87

AMD ATHLON XP 2500 "Barton" 333 FSB PROCESSOR CPU- OEM
Specifications: CPU: 1.83 GHz; Type: XP 2500 Barton Core, Cache: 512K L2, 128K L1, Total 640KB
BUS: 333MHz

Is this Ram too good for $101? : Kingson 512mb (2x256mb) DDR400 PC3200, Model KVR400X64C3AK2/512 Specifications: Type: DDR 400, 184-pin DIMM
Capacity: 512mb Speed: 400MHz PC3200

and of course Windows XP Home ed.

Thanks again
Steve

 

[lycurgus]

The noise issue seems to be pretty well addressed. I would tend towards keeping the m/b and getting a 266Mhz FSB AthlonXP processor and quieter cooling. Regarding the stability issues, I would recommend that you try reformatting the harddrive and reinstalling the O/S before replacing the system. You might also want to try memory and harddrive tests, to make sure it's not a hardware issue.

 

[Boonesmi]

How about the FSB part - there are 266 and 333 options which should I get.

that board (the soltek kt600) will support any of the athlon xp so you can get a 266, 333 or 400 fsb chip... if you are going with a barton then your only choices will be 333mhz and 400mhz (the xp2500 barton is a 333mhz chip)

ohh and by the way i noticed that the thermalright slk800 was just about as much as the slk900 (the slk900 is a newer and has a couple improvments over the slk800)


the kingston ram is good stuff. personally i like the corsair xms stuff the best (hehe but it costs alot) also the buffalo pc3200 is pretty good stuff and very reasonably priced, its only about $80 for a 512mb pc3200 stick at newegg



all in all it looks like a nice system
the hdd is a little small and older, but should still perform well
also if you are into gaming the video card is a little under powered
but that stuff can all be upgraded.. at least the core of your system looks very solid

 

[Boonesmi]

hey i just notices svc has the thermalright slk900 on sale!! www.svcompucycle.com

and incase your wondering svc is a very reputable online store for buying cooling parts

 

[Ste4en]

Lycurgus, you are making this really difficult I was just about set and now I have an alternative....

So what about all the cooling I had above - Boonesmi I saw the prices on SLK 800 and 900 were the same but read that 900 was bigger and there was a possibility of interference with MoBo components for what I want (silence) will I notice any performance difference.

This seems to be the fastest / reasonably priced 266FSB at Newegg AMD ATHLON XP 2400 /266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU- OEM
Specifications: CPU: 2.0 GHz , Type: XP 2400 Thoroughbred, Cache: 256K, BUS: 266MHz, Socket A.

This will run hotter than the XP Barton - will I notice. Will it work on my Iwill 266 board.

So how about testing my memory and HD how would I test these? I have always had a double beep at start up which I was told ( 2 years ago) that it indicated a memory problem) however at the time there were no lock ups and things seemed fine. I just got used to the extra beep. I have 2* 256 in there now I suppose I could take one stick out and see how it runs, then try the other. I run Norton disk doctor regularly and it always comes up good.

So should I buy the things I need for either option - HS and fans and Windows XP and see how that works and then decide on upgrading the MoBo or just the processor???

Thanks

 

[Boonesmi]

www.memtest86.com is the best utility for testing your ram and making sure its not producing any errors

www.westerndigital.com you can download a diagnostic utility for your hdd

the 2400+ (tbred) and 2500+ (barton) put out almost the same amount of heat... but the barton is a bigger core (and a core with more surface area can disipate more heat into the hsf) so the barton should run cooler then the tbred

the slk900 shouldnt have any problems fitting on the soltek board... but slk800/slk900 are very large which is part of why they cool so well, and lots of older motherboards do have capasitors that would be in the way