Upgrade OR New Built for $1700?

[Darlok9]

Don't get me wrong, it's a great panel, I have one myself and I love it to death.

I just don't think you need to drop 550 USD on a GPU if you're only pushing 1080 or so pixels, and said pixels can be pushed at excellent frame rates for 250-300 USD

Yeah, No.. I thought about it and you are right... I'm rethinking the whole 256 GB SSD. Might get the 128 since in all honesty, I don't have much if anything on my PC.. Also the 32 GB vs 16 GB ram issue; Leaning toward 16 GB at the moment.. The MB is also on my mind since i'm thinking of an Asrock now.. What is the ASrock Warranty btw?

Now.. To get a 660 a 670 or a 7950/7970? That's something I need to think about. Also if i get the 660/7950 will i need a downgrade my CPU to an i5?? How much better is the i7 over the i5 in terms of percent?

 

[Sleepingforest]

The i7 is only better for games right now because it is clocked slightly higher (a moot point with an overclock). The only true difference between an i7 and an i5 is the i7 has hyperthreading (shows up as 8 rather than 4 logical cores to the OS); this has no benefit in games, which almost all run on 1-2 threads. There's really no reason to get an i7 over an i5 right now.

Some will tell you that since consoles are octocore, games will be more threaded. I say wait. There are several reasons for this. First and foremost, console cores have not carried over to PC games in the past (Xbox 360 has 3 cores, for example, but games are still stuck at 2 threads). Secondly, it takes programmers time to optimize for more cores. By the time the games are ready for 8 threads, the i7-3770K will probably be out-of-date.

 

[Cerb]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2274887

Greater than 0 benefit, and greater than 0 detriment, though detriment is pretty much negligible in comparison, and min FPS get some nice boosts. Same clocks. The good reason not to get the i7-3770K is typically that is is anywhere from $80 to $125 more expensive than the i5-3570K, while only really being worth $25-50 more, based on performance for the money. It provides benefit, but not enough to justify the cost, compared to adding an SSD, or getting 30-50% more GPU performance, for the money.

A higher total budget, and/or local Microcenter, both make that view a bit different.

 

[mfenn]

Thing is.. I need lots of Ram because I play SecondLife which I think (i'm not sure) requires lots of rendering of different textures all the time based on the SIMs I teleport to..

The Windows Second Life viewer is a 32-bit application, so the maximum theoretical memory usage is 4GB (2^32 ~ 4 billion). In reality with the way the 32-bit Windows virtual memory address space is setup, it cannot use more than 2GB.

So yeah, you don't need 32GB of RAM.

 

[Darlok9]

Okay TY for allll your help guys (still in the process of deciding) Now I'm stuck between 2 Builds.. Can you guys give me a rough estimate of the difference (percentage wise) in performance between these 2?

BUDGET BUILD

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($169.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme6 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($154.99 @ Newegg) It comes bundled with a FREE Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB DDR3-1600 Memory.
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($62.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($124.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Video Card ($289.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair Vengeance C70 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($82.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1043.90


With this build.. Would I be better off with a 670 GTX for $100 more or can I do okay with the 660 TI?

Also, would there be a Fps diff in 1920x1080 in BF3 or BF4 which is coming out in a few months between these 660 TI and the G670 GTX, and if so by how much? Also with this rig and this cpu cooler, how far would I be able to oc my i5 and still keep it pretty cool? This is a humongous diff in price btw.. I didn't know I could get it so low!

The other build is this one:

EXPENSIVE BUILD

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($78.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus SABERTOOTH Z77 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (Purchased For $199.99)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($204.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($219.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card ($409.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Corsair Vengeance C70 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($82.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1554.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-24 00:28 EDT-0400)

Please let me know what the diff in performance between these 2 systems would be (percentage wise if you can estimate) 1 is obviously $500 cheaper than the other.. So I am somewhat Shocked I could get it that low.. Btw guys, Ty for your patience and still keeping up with this thread. You're all great!

 

[Sleepingforest]

The difference in performance is basically all due to the stronger graphics card in the more expensive build. Right now you can get a 7970 for $360 after a $20 MIR (you also get 4 free games). A 7970, once overclocked, will beat a 680; even without an overclock, it will get between a 670 and a 680 in framerates. Take your cheaper build and sub in this 7970, and you'll have enough power for many years (assuming that medium settings are acceptable in the future).

Remember, more expensive parts DOES NOT automatically mean higher quality or better performing. You shouldn't be shocked--after all you can actually fit an i5-3570K, a Z77 motherboard, an SDD, and a top tier graphics card for around $1000 (and mfenn's been doing at least weekly for a couple of years now).

 

[Darlok9]

The difference in performance is basically all due to the stronger graphics card in the more expensive build. Right now you can get a 7970 for $360 after a $20 MIR (you also get 4 free games). A 7970, once overclocked, will beat a 680; even without an overclock, it will get between a 670 and a 680 in framerates. Take your cheaper build and sub in this 7970, and you'll have enough power for many years (assuming that medium settings are acceptable in the future).

Remember, more expensive parts DOES NOT automatically mean higher quality or better performing. You shouldn't be shocked--after all you can actually fit an i5-3570K, a Z77 motherboard, an SDD, and a top tier graphics card for around $1000 (and mfenn's been doing at least weekly for a couple of years now).

Sleeping, do you have any good recommendations for the 7970 Manufacturers; preferably ones with 5 yr warranty if there are any... How much would i be able to oc my i5 on that cooler while keeping the cpu relatively cool. Is going for the Noctua a better route or is that too much for an i5? I might be thinking of slightly oc'ing my cpu, but no way near what people are doing... Thnx

 

[Cerb]

Okay TY for allll your help guys (still in the process of deciding) Now I'm stuck between 2 Builds.. Can you guys give me a rough estimate of the difference (percentage wise) in performance between these 2?

BUDGET BUILD

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($169.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme6 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($154.99 @ Newegg) It comes bundled with a FREE Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB DDR3-1600 Memory.
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($62.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($124.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Video Card ($289.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair Vengeance C70 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($82.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($17.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1043.90

If you have a Microcenter, then your CPU and motherboard should be one of their combos:
http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx
Both the GB and Asus bundles, for $300 and $315, are pretty much impossible to beat (they have to be getting kickbacks or something), at $100 or more less than those of us not within reasonable driving distance can get them.

If you do not have a Microcenter, then do not use their CPUs or motherboards for pricing.

Also, for the expensive build, again that the Noctua isn't gaining you anything. Like the Zalman, they're good, but what they're really good at is marketing, and that's where quite a bit of the cost is going. It's only ~$30 out of the total, sure, but you'd do better with overclocking and such by heading over to say, FrozenCPU or somewhere, and picking out a Thermalright TRUE derived cooler. Even today, they're right near the top of the heap for air, and can handle 150+W loads just fine (stock for the i7-3770K is 77W).

As stated already, the vast majority of the expensive build's performance is just from the video card. The i7-3770K is faster, and you might as well go for it if you live near a Microcenter, but it is only going to offer minor benefits, and to some games, no benefits, over the i5-3570K. IE, in one game, it could improve minimum framerates by +10%, in another 0%, in another -5%, and in another +20%. Overall, it will be positive, and it has 100MHz going for it, too, but the GPU is real difference.

 

[Darlok9]

If you have a Microcenter, then your CPU and motherboard should be one of their combos:
http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx
Both the GB and Asus bundles, for $300 and $315, are pretty much impossible to beat (they have to be getting kickbacks or something), at $100 or more less than those of us not within reasonable driving distance can get them.

If you do not have a Microcenter, then do not use their CPUs or motherboards for pricing.

Also, for the expensive build, again that the Noctua isn't gaining you anything. Like the Zalman, they're good, but what they're really good at is marketing, and that's where quite a bit of the cost is going. It's only ~$30 out of the total, sure, but you'd do better with overclocking and such by heading over to say, FrozenCPU or somewhere, and picking out a Thermalright TRUE derived cooler. Even today, they're right near the top of the heap for air, and can handle 150+W loads just fine (stock for the i7-3770K is 77W).

As stated already, the vast majority of the expensive build's performance is just from the video card. The i7-3770K is faster, and you might as well go for it if you live near a Microcenter, but it is only going to offer minor benefits, and to some games, no benefits, over the i5-3570K. IE, in one game, it could improve minimum framerates by +10%, in another 0%, in another -5%, and in another +20%. Overall, it will be positive, and it has 100MHz going for it, too, but the GPU is real difference.

Cerb Ty.. with Microcenter the i5 is $169.99, bundled with the Asrock Extreme4 MB, the MB Price comes down to $94.99.. Together the CPU+MB then cost $265 + TAX that comes down to$289 for both parts. (Tax sucks) I live 20 miles from a Long Island Microcenter so it's about a 25 min drive for me. + $105 for 16 GB of Ram = $394 for MB/CPU/16 GB of RAM

Now.. If I buy just the CPU from Microcenter at $169.99 + $15 Tax, It'll be $184.99 for the CPU.. Newegg has a special on the ASrock Extreme 6 with a 8GB Crucial Sports Ballistic 1600 RAM stick for $154.99. The Ram in itself is worth $63. For another $63 I can buy an extra 1 of the same Ram bringing the total to 16 GB of Ram and not pay tax on any of these things nor S&H. So for $403 I can have MB/CPU/16GB of Ram With an ASrock 6 instead of 4. Is Extreme 6 opposed to Extreme 4 worth $9 ?

I'm looking for a Thermalright True Derived Cooler but All I see is Spirit 120 MM cooler.. Is that it ?

 

[Darlok9]

Sleeping, do you have any good recommendations for the 7970 Manufacturers; preferably ones with 5 yr warranty if there are any... How much would i be able to oc my i5 on that cooler while keeping the cpu relatively cool. Is going for the Noctua a better route or is that too much for an i5? I might be thinking of slightly oc'ing my cpu, but no way near what people are doing... Thnx

Sleeping I'm going with a 7970! Since people are saying lots of goodies about it :0

 

[Essence_of_War]

Cerb Ty.. with Microcenter the i5 is $169.99, bundled with the Asrock Extreme4 MB, the MB Price comes down to $94.99.. Together the CPU+MB then cost $265 + TAX that comes down to$289 for both parts. (Tax sucks) I live 20 miles from a Long Island Microcenter so it's about a 25 min drive for me. + $105 for 16 GB of Ram = $394 for MB/CPU/16 GB of RAM

Now.. If I buy just the CPU from Microcenter at $169.99 + $15 Tax, It'll be $184.99 for the CPU.. Newegg has a special on the ASrock Extreme 6 with a 8GB Crucial Sports Ballistic 1600 RAM stick for $154.99. The Ram in itself is worth $63. For another $63 I can buy an extra 1 of the same Ram bringing the total to 16 GB of Ram and not pay tax on any of these things nor S&H. So for $403 I can have MB/CPU/16GB of Ram With an ASrock 6 instead of 4. Is Extreme 6 opposed to Extreme 4 worth $9 ?

Allegedly the extra power phase on the 6 means lower temps and a bigger overclock headroom. YMMV.

 

[Cerb]

Cerb Ty.. with Microcenter the i5 is $169.99, bundled with the Asrock Extreme4 MB, the MB Price comes down to $94.99.. Together the CPU+MB then cost $265 + TAX that comes down to$289 for both parts. (Tax sucks) I live 20 miles from a Long Island Microcenter so it's about a 25 min drive for me. + $105 for 16 GB of Ram = $394 for MB/CPU/16 GB of RAM

Of Microcenter's bundles, the Asus P8Z77-V Lk and GigabyteGA-Z77-DS3H are by far the best choices. Asus has a bit better EUFI implementation in general (EUFI is still new enough in practice that kinks are being worked out, reminiscent of the early PnP days, but orders of magnitude less bad ), but that particular one has USB3 on the edge (easier cable management), right-angle SATAs (much easier cable management), and full-length extra PCIe slots.

Now.. If I buy just the CPU from Microcenter at $169.99 + $15 Tax, It'll be $184.99 for the CPU.. Newegg has a special on the ASrock Extreme 6 with a 8GB Crucial Sports Ballistic 1600 RAM stick for $154.99. The Ram in itself is worth $63. For another $63 I can buy an extra 1 of the same Ram bringing the total to 16 GB of Ram and not pay tax on any of these things nor S&H. So for $403 I can have MB/CPU/16GB of Ram With an ASrock 6 instead of 4. Is Extreme 6 opposed to Extreme 4 worth $9 ?

The Extreme6 is a good board. The Extreme4 might be fine, but it's known to have toasty VRMs, so I'd avoid it. That's fine for a low-end board, as a way to not cut corners on parts that might affect stock-speed reliability, but not cool for overclocking board.

i7-3770K+P8Z77-V-Lk: $315+tax ($31?)
i5-3570K+P8Z77-V-Lk: $255+tax ($23?)
Crucial 2x8GB DDR3-1600MHz: $105

So, that's ~$451, for the i7-3770K; or ~$382, for the i5-3570K; based on 9% tax (15/170, rounded up). If you're making the trip for the CPU, you may as well get a board, too. Now, if there's something you want that the Extreme6 has that the P8Z77-V Lk does not, though, then by all means, go for it.

I'm looking for a Thermalright True Derived Cooler but All I see is Spirit 120 MM cooler.. Is that it ?

They've given several different names over the past several years to newer models, so I have to look up which is which, beyond the Macho (was HR-02), which fits its name well . The Archon is among the best forced-air coolers out there, performing right up there with the mini water coolers like the Corsair H100i. The True Spirit 120M isn't quite as good, but it's not far, half the price, and smaller and lighter; and you could get a more powerful fan and get better temps out of it, too. If you don't want to add yet another vendor, Newegg offers Xigmatek's Dark Knight II for $50 shipped, and it's a great HSF, as well.