upgrade or new PC? Advice please.

[sophiarosehips]

Hi all,

***The short version:
Is it better to upgrade my existing pc to Win7 and to have at least 5gigs of RAM, or to just buy a new pc?

***The long version:
You helped me a great deal back in 2007 when I bought my custom pre-built desktop. It's an abs, and it's been pretty good. At this point I have 4 gigs of RAM installed, although since it's running XP it only shows 3.25. I'm running into a problem with a game I play where a really irritating glitch occurs if one is running 4 gigs of RAM or less, so I want to upgrade. I'm also using SMARTNotebook on it for work and it sometimes glitches out, which makes me think an upgrade may be needed there, too, although perhaps it's more of an issue relating to running XP for that, or a processor issue, I don't know. However, I spoke to a tech about it (at a local shop that's done work for the school district, where I work, but no company you'd have heard of), and she told me I'd have to upgrade the whole system to Win7, which I'm fine with in theory, as I like Win7. However, it does add at least $120 to the cost.

The tech seems to think I'm better off just buying a new computer, but she said this without knowing anything about the one I have, and I suspect to get something comparable, I'd be spending more than $1000. This rig cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $1700 back in 2007, mainly because I got a nice video card (I think it was the "NVIDIA GeForce 7950GT 512MB with DVI + TV out video" but to be honest it may have been some variation... my husband has hidden the binder I got with my list of specs and I don't know how to look it up on the pc). The processor is an Intel Core 2 CPU 6400 @2.13 GHz according to the computer properties. The tech suggested my processor might not be up to an upgrade to Win7 (again, she said this without knowing what I have). So one question I have is, is my processor up to running Win7?

I did a scan via crucial.com and it said the following about my specs:
Intel D975XBX2 Motherboard
Memory Type: DDR2 PC2-8500, DDR2 PC2-5300, DDR2 PC2-6400, DDR2 (ECC)
Maximum Memory: 8GB
Currently Installed Memory: 4GB
Total Memory Slots: 4
Available Memory Slots: 1
Each memory slot can hold DDR2 PC2-8500, DDR2 PC2-5300, DDR2 PC2-6400 with a maximum of 2GB per slot.

I really want to keep cost down. I'd prefer to spend <$250 if at all possible. I suggested to the tech that maybe I could take the video card out of the pc and install it in a new one, if I bought one... She seems to think I can get a great desktop for about $500. That's what I paid for my laptop, and I'm perfectly happy with it, but the desktop needs to be able to run games and the Notebook software, so I suspect it's going to need to be more powerful than an average desktop. Then again, I am not knowledgeable about what's out there these days and the tech said things have evolved a lot since 2007.

Anyway, thanks for bearing with me and my long explanation.

If someone can give me the steps I'd be glad to look up the video card and anything else about the computer's hardware that would be useful. I poked around but didn't find anything other than what crucial told me and what you can find out by right clicking My Computer and selecting "Properties."

Thanks for any and all advice.

- Sophia

 

[Puppies04]

the reason you are showing only 3.25gb of ram avaliable is either because you are running 32bit windows or your system is allocating .75gb to your graphics card.

 

[sophiarosehips]

the reason you are showing only 3.25gb of ram avaliable is either because you are running 32bit windows or your system is allocating .75gb to your graphics card.

So it's not because I'm running XP, like the tech said?

What do I need to do to fix it if it's the 32bit Windows?

If it's the graphics card, I imagine that means if I buy a 2 gig stick and install it in the final slot that would upgrade me to 5.25?

How do I find out which is the issue?

 

[Matt1970]

The specs you list are fine for Windows 7. There are new systems shipping right now with less/lower specs. Puppies04 is correct, you need a 64 bit operating system to take advantage of 4 or more gigs of ram. XP, Vista and 7 have 64 bit versions. If you have a Core 2 Duo then more than likely the board can handle a Core 2 Quad but you will need to look up the specs for your board. Your current 6400 (I am assuming it is the E6400) is a 65 nm chip so you may need to find a 65 nm like the Q6600 if your board can't handle 45mn chips.

About the only other thing I can think of is to make sure you have a SATA hard drive.

 

[uOpt]

This board will only take 65nm Core2 CPUs. While Core2 CPUs are generally great there is the unfortunate fact that the early Core2 boards didn't take the later CPUs. Some of the 65nm CPUs overclock like mad badgers on caffeine but if that isn't your thing you'll have to think. The high clocked Conroes are a little sought after after.

To use more memory you will need a new OS. While 32 bit version of other OSes can use > 4 GB without problems MS has decided in their wisdom to disable PAE on XP SP2. So you either go back to SP1 or you need a 64 Windows, or a real operating system.

DDR2 RAM is more expensive than DDR3 by a wide margin.

A new Dell or something will come with the Windows license, so if Windows is your thing that saves some money. My wife's Dell just blew up it's PSU and the PSU isn't interchangable with any other PSU, time-consuming, annoying and expensive experience.

On the other hand the BadAxe and BadAxe2 boards are very solid. If you can live with the clockspeed of a 65nm CPU that you can get cheap that's a consideration.

I just tried to replace a BadAxe1 system with a AM3+ system and failed miserably due to Asus' lousy BIOSes in the new M5A97 and friend boards.

 

[denis280]

downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?lang=eng&DwnldID...
Go for it. this is the intel site for drivers windows 7 for your motherboard and with 4 gig.ram you could run 64 bit.you only need 2 for 32 bit.and yes it will show only 3,75 because the video card.it's normal.

 

[sophiarosehips]

Thank you Matt, uOpt, and Denis.

So let me see if I understood you. I can and should upgrade to 64 bit. My motherboard is okay to do that. I can't go with a Core 2 Quad but don't need to, as long as the OS is 64 bit. Then if I add another 2 gig stick of RAM I'll have 5.25 available gigs (the .75 remaining going to the video card). Is that right?

 

[cougar78]

What are the other 3 sticks in the pc now? It sounds like you probably have 2 1gig sticks and 1 2gig stick. I would recommend pricing out replacing (the 2 1gig sticks) and bumping the system up to the max 8gig after you upgrade to 64bit.

The person who made the comment about the video card and ram allotment to that was incorrect or assuming you had an on-board video card which you don't, correct? If that's the case than Windows is not reserving any ram for the video card because a stand alone video card has it's own ram and doesn't need to use any virtual ram from the motherboard/ram.

So bottomline, if you can upgrade to a faster core duo CPU, I would recommend that but if not maxing out the ram to 8gig will definitely help. Also you may want to reevaluate your video card and see if you can find a deal to upgrade that as well if it's now several years old. Like a 9800 series Nvidia card.

 

[sophiarosehips]

What are the other 3 sticks in the pc now? It sounds like you probably have 2 1gig sticks and 1 2gig stick. I would recommend pricing out replacing (the 2 1gig sticks) and bumping the system up to the max 8gig after you upgrade to 64bit.

You are correct about the current configuration. Why do you recommend going to 8 gigs? (This is so I can justify it to my husband...)

The person who made the comment about the video card and ram allotment to that was incorrect or assuming you had an on-board video card which you don't, correct? If that's the case than Windows is not reserving any ram for the video card because a stand alone video card has it's own ram and doesn't need to use any virtual ram from the motherboard/ram.

As I understand it, my video card is stand-alone. It's an NVidia Geforce 7950 GT from 2007.

So bottomline, if you can upgrade to a faster core duo CPU, I would recommend that but if not maxing out the ram to 8gig will definitely help. Also you may want to reevaluate your video card and see if you can find a deal to upgrade that as well if it's now several years old. Like a 9800 series Nvidia card.

Unless the cost of video cards has decreased dramatically since the last time I bought one (2007) I probably can't afford to upgrade that. I'll have a look. I'm just really trying to keep this whole project under $300. So I need to price out the upgrade to the faster CPU and the total 8 gigs of RAM first... but even so, wouldn't a high end video card like a 9800 be several hundred dollars at least?

Thanks so much for weighing in.

Oh, I almost forgot:
So if my vid card is a stand alone, why is my PC claiming to only have 3.25 gigs of RAM, when it actually has 4 gigs? Is that because the OS is 32 bit?

 

[sophiarosehips]

Okay... just poked around a bit, and am I looking at this right? The video cards I'm seeing are in the $50 range (on ebay). Is that right? Have video cards come down that much???

Also, looks like about $60 for two DDR2 2 gig RAM sticks versus about $30 for two DDR3 2 gig sticks. Is there any reason not to go with the DDR3?

Edited to say: I just can't believe the cost of the vid cards. The tech I spoke to looked up how much I might get on mine, used, and said it was worth $500. Was she nuts?

 

[cougar78]

Yes that person was nuts. The key is if you were looking at the top of the line and/or bleeding edge just released video cards than yes they can be very expensive. However, what I recommended is the 9800 series which are also a few years old but faster than your 7950 video card. The new Nvidias are all the GForce GTX 300, 400, 500 series cards that will be expensive.
So you can actually go past the 9800 to one of the newer cards that are still low priced. An example based on your system handling any PCI-express card (I looked at mobo to verify it can):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125366
GeForce GT 440 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit 79.99 (69.99 after mail-in rebate)

Unfortunately with the ram the DDR3 are the same or sometimes cheaper than the DDR2 series. I just looked at the specs for that motherboard and you can only use DDR2 and here is the tech specs that show the approved ram too:
http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d975xbx2/sb/CS-026616.htm

In regards to maxing the ram, you will get more out of maxing the ram in this case than upgrading the processor. In regards to justifying maxing the ram, the more ram the more processing the system can do which allows you to run for instance a game faster in conjunction with a good video card. Basically, the more ram you have the less virtual ram the machine needs to use therefore less swapping physical and virtual ram which in turns speeds up the applications running on the machine. Bottomline, maxing the ram will help games as well as applications run quicker and smoother. Others can chime in if they think I'm not correct on this but in your case, I would actually recommending upgrading the ram and video card and not worry about the CPU.

Looking at ram here is what I found:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148428
Crucial Ballistix sport 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 22.99 x3= 68.97
This should be ok with leaving the 2gb stick you already have in, if not pull that stick out and just use the 6gb and sell the 2gb stick.

This would put you at 148.96 so from here you would have a decently faster PC. If you wanted to spend a bit more you could go ahead and bump up the CPU but if you haven't installed one before I would consider sticking with just the ram and video card. The so-called "tech" you talked to is an idiot and don't trust them. Sounds like they just wanted you to buy a pc from them.
If you are comfortable with trying to install a CPU which really isn't hard and can find plenty of how-tos online any LGA775 socket will work in your system. However, a new CPU because it's a few years old the stock is a bit limited which drives the price up so you are looking nothing less than over 100 bucks to upgrade the CPU. Plus looking the best one I see that isn't super expensive is a E7500 Wolfdale 2.93ghz core 2 Duo for 131.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115056

While that is a bump up from 2.13ghz not sure the cost is worth it after upgrading the ram and video card. Again someone else can chime in if they think I'm wrong. Last thing, I would make sure your powersupply is at 450w or better. If not skip the CPU upgrade and get a decent powersuppy to accommodate the bigger video card.

 

[sophiarosehips]

Cougar, thank you so much for the patient and detailed explanations. I really, really appreciate it. I'm aiming to upgrade the ram to 8 gigs as you suggest, as well as upgrading the card. I'll have to figure out what the power supply is at... perhaps if it looks good I'll upgrade the CPU too. Much appreciated!

Edited to add: How do I figure out what my power supply is? Can I look it up on the pc or do I have to take the tower apart and look inside? Thanks again.

 

[cougar78]

If you have anything from when you originally ordered it, that may have it or taking off the side of the case, it should be listed on the powersuppy easily visible with the side removed.
Thinking about it though, you will probably be ok with the power supply you have considering the card you have in there now but it never hurts to double check.

The recommendations I gave you were quick lookups on newegg so if you wanted to do a bit more searching you may find a step or two better on the video card for a bit more but I based my search on finding 1gb video card with a good brand and high user rating.

Enjoy the system after upgrading. Also when the time comes to build or buy a new machine, might do you well to post here to get other people's opinion before buying because it sounds like the system you bought is a bit higher priced than it should have been when you bought it.

 

[random2]

Please find yourself a different IT person to talk to about your possible upgrading. This person either has no idea what they are talking about or are purposely misleading you.

Currently there are PCI-e cards available for 150.00 that are orders of magnitude faster than a 7950 GT and capable of playing todays games (albeit perhaps not on the highest settings if you have a 1920x1080 monitor). It also might be a very good idea to upgrade your PSU as already mentioned. Don't go cheap on the PSU, they are crucial, and the old "you get what you pay for" applies double to PSU's. Not only that but when they fail it is possible they could take other cherished and expensive components along for the ride.

If you video edit, Photoshop, do file conversion, play games, it may be a good time to think about getting a new system. A quad core processor like the Q6600 or slightly newer Q8500 would be a perfect upgrade, (may require a Motherboard BIOS update). but these are very difficult to find new these days. Used from eBay might be an alternative. New i5 and i7 series Intel chips are very very powerful and reasonably priced as are motherboards and RAM.

As mentioned 32 bit operating systems are limited by the amount of memory the CPU can address. 64 bit O/S allow the CPU to address about 64,000 times the 4 GB limit of memory accessed in a 32 bit O/S, so we should be good for a few more years

Talk to a reputable tech, and I think you'll find prices are a lot better on upgrades and parts for new builds than they were in 2007. Good luck!

 

[sophiarosehips]

Thank you again Cougar, and thanks, Random. I appreciate all of your help.