Upgrade Recommendation Help

[mparr1708]

Hello all,

I've been away from system building for a while so I was hoping to get some help. My current system is as follows:

Asus P5Q-Pro
8 GB DDR2
E8400 @ 4ghz
Xigmatek 750 Watt Modular PSU
EVGA GTX 470

I don't remember the drive brands / models etc but I have
1 TB Storage and a few SSDs

Here's my dilemma - My GTX 470 has started showing artifacts when it heats up. I get all sorts of pretty shapes and rainbows. It seems like sort of a waste to buy a new GPU and put it into this old system so I'm debating if I should just redo the CPU, memory, MB, and GPU all at once. The downside is my total budget is as close to $400 as possible.

Questionnaire -


1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Primary use is gaming. I currently play Payday 2, Orcs Must Die 2, Torchlight 2. I like steam games in general. I've been thinking of trying Diablo III if I can catch at $15 and Rome Total War 2 is another game I may pick up. I do like to turn all of the eye candy on but I'm not watching framerate all the time. If I can turn everything on and I can get smooth game play, I'm happy regardless of what the framerate is.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

$400

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

US

4. NA

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

Zero brand preference. I just want a stable system.

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

See above.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

I'm not opposed to overclocking. I don't want to spend a ton of time researching how though. The E8400 was stupid easy.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?

Currently 1600 X 1050 but I'd may cash in on one of the 24" 1080p monitor deals I see floating around lately. This would not be counted in the $400 budget. Plan on 1080p for specs.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

Now but I could wait if pricing dictates that I should. I can game now for short periods. I could force my self to wait if its prudent to do so.

Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can lend.

 

[Ken g6]

Yes, $400 is a low budget. Since you have a good motherboard, and a good deal of DDR2 RAM, what about just upgrading your CPU to a quad-core? You should be able to get a used one for a halfway decent price, or here's one at superbiiz for $150. Overclocking it shouldn't be much harder than overclocking your E8400, though you won't get as high of course.

Then you'd have $250 left over for a GTX 760. (You said stable, so I linked EVGA, but MSI isn't bad either.)

 

[mparr1708]

Yes, $400 is a low budget. Since you have a good motherboard, and a good deal of DDR2 RAM, what about just upgrading your CPU to a quad-core? You should be able to get a used one for a halfway decent price, or here's one at superbiiz for $150. Overclocking it shouldn't be much harder than overclocking your E8400, though you won't get as high of course.

Then you'd have $250 left over for a GTX 760. (You said stable, so I linked EVGA, but MSI isn't bad either.)

That's an interesting thought. Would a quad core of that generation really be noticeable over the e8400? Also, would a processor of this generation bottle neck a 760?

 

[Termie]

That's an interesting thought. Would a quad core of that generation really be noticeable over the e8400? Also, would a processor of this generation bottle neck a 760?

Yes and yes, but you have a $400 total upgrade budget, so you can't have everything!

I personally would ditch the old platform and balance out the upgrade a bit differently:

B85 motherboard - $70
i3-4130 CPU - $120
GTX 750Ti - $150 (nearly identical in performance to a GTX 470, but different in every other way...like heat/power/noise)
8GB of DDR3-1600 - $75

Total: $415

Just to be clear, even your current GPU was way over-powered for the games you play, so spending a lot to upgrade to a higher-performance GPU is not your best move. Upgrading to a much more modern platform, on the other hand, has a lot of non-gaming benefits.

 

[jaydee]

I don't think I'd mess with a new C2Q CPU. It may solve a short-term problem, but when the OP can do a full rebuild, that's money down the drain. With E8400@4GHz right now, any C2Q you're actually going to lose out on single-threaded performance.

I would just go with another GPU (GTX 750/760 for instance) for now and save up for a new build down the line when you can afford an i5 mobo+cpu+DDR3.

Another thought, if your PSU was original for that build, it might be flaking out, causing GPU problems. Not really sure how to troubleshoot that, except swapping it out and seeing if the problem goes away.

 

[Ken g6]

I personally would ditch the old platform and balance out the upgrade a bit differently:

B85 motherboard - $70
i3-4130 CPU - $120
GTX 750Ti - $150 (nearly identical in performance to a GTX 470, but different in every other way...like heat/power/noise)
8GB of DDR3-1600 - $75

Total: $415

I personally can't recommend an Intel i3 for much of anything, unless you plan to upgrade to an i5, and sooner rather than later. If you want to change your mobo, I'd go with an AMD FX-6300, which has more cores and can overclock:

AM3+ 970 mobo - $65
AMD FX-6300 - $120
And the other parts Termie suggested, for a total of $410.

But one other question: How is your Windows installed? Is it linked to the motherboard? That could mean $100 extra for Windows.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

You pulled the cooler off that GPU and re-done the TIM?

Got a microcenter near you?

 

[Termie]

I personally can't recommend an Intel i3 for much of anything, unless you plan to upgrade to an i5, and sooner rather than later. If you want to change your mobo, I'd go with an AMD FX-6300, which has more cores and can overclock:

AM3+ 970 mobo - $65
AMD FX-6300 - $120
And the other parts Termie suggested, for a total of $410.

But one other question: How is your Windows installed? Is it linked to the motherboard? That could mean $100 extra for Windows.

Just as background on the i3-4130 vs. FX-6300 issue:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i3-4340-4330-4130_5.html#sect0

They each have their advantages.

 

[mparr1708]

Thanks to everyone for your input. All things considered, I may just add a bit more cash (or more likely hold off on the new monitor), and do an i5. I don't see my self rebuilding again for another 3 plus years so I'm scared an i3 or fx-6300 may not quite make it.

How about something like:

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2WcXO
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2WcXO/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2WcXO/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($181.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Biostar Hi-Fi B85S3+ Ver. 6.x Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Microcenter)
Total: $301.96
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-02-20 15:44 EST-0500)


I'm struggling with picking a GPU though. I noticed a 7870 for 169.99 yesterday but it changed to 199.99 now. Nothing seems like a decent deal for a GPU right now. I would have been able to stomach the ~70$ price increase over budget for something a little more future proof. Any other ideas?

Also, just how much would I really notice over going with the i3 that was mentioned?

To clean up some questions:

I do not have a microcenter near me. I'm in Florida and the closest is 6 hours away in Atlanta. Also, being in Florida, I pay tax to Tigerdirect.

I have not done this: You pulled the cooler off that GPU and re-done the TIM?

I'm unsettled by the idea of pulling the GPU apart. Simple process?

 

[mfenn]

The GPU cooler is held in place by the typical screws and plastic clips. It'll come apart easily enough as long as you're patient and keep track of how everything goes together. Since your GPU is on the fritz anyway, you don't really have much to lose by trying.

An i5 quad is much better than an i3 for multithreaded tasks (obvious statement of the day), so if you can handle the $60 increase in budget, then it'll give you more longevity. However, you'd probably be surprised by how little multithreaded performance matters for the games you're interested in.

As for the GPU, unless and until the R7 265 hits at MSRP or you find another ~$160 7870, the GTX 750 Ti is probably your best bet in the sub-$200 GPU space.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Thanks to everyone for your input. All things considered, I may just add a bit more cash (or more likely hold off on the new monitor), and do an i5. I don't see my self rebuilding again for another 3 plus years so I'm scared an i3 or fx-6300 may not quite make it.

How about something like:

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2WcXO
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2WcXO/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2WcXO/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($181.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Biostar Hi-Fi B85S3+ Ver. 6.x Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Microcenter)
Total: $301.96
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-02-20 15:44 EST-0500)


I'm struggling with picking a GPU though. I noticed a 7870 for 169.99 yesterday but it changed to 199.99 now. Nothing seems like a decent deal for a GPU right now. I would have been able to stomach the ~70$ price increase over budget for something a little more future proof. Any other ideas?

Also, just how much would I really notice over going with the i3 that was mentioned?

To clean up some questions:

I do not have a microcenter near me. I'm in Florida and the closest is 6 hours away in Atlanta. Also, being in Florida, I pay tax to Tigerdirect.

I have not done this: You pulled the cooler off that GPU and re-done the TIM?

I'm unsettled by the idea of pulling the GPU apart. Simple process?

Build looks good. Re-doing the thermal paste on a gpu is not really much different than the cpu. Think of the GPU shroud like a computer case. Gotta take it off the get to the inner works. GPU has a heatsink with fan(s) just like CPU. Everything is just smaller so you will need some tiny screwdrivers.

You are correct that GPU prices are not good right now. I've seen a few GTX 660's for under $200.- that are about the best deal going currently.

 

[Termie]

Build looks good. Re-doing the thermal paste on a gpu is not really much different than the cpu. Think of the GPU shroud like a computer case. Gotta take it off the get to the inner works. GPU has a heatsink with fan(s) just like CPU. Everything is just smaller so you will need some tiny screwdrivers.

You are correct that GPU prices are not good right now. I've seen a few GTX 660's for under $200.- that are about the best deal going currently.

The difference is that a GPU cooler typically has thermal pads on certain components, like the VRAM, which rip off when you remove the cooler. Replacing those is not necessarily as easy as just screwing the shroud back on.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

The difference is that a GPU cooler typically has thermal pads on certain components, like the VRAM, which rip off when you remove the cooler. Replacing those is not necessarily as easy as just screwing the shroud back on.

Hmmm I've never had one rip. They usually just stick to the cooler. I unstick them, flip them, and re-use. I could see it being a bit of a pain to line up if one did rip though.

Here's a quick guide for OP

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2370070

 

[sm625]

It seems like sort of a waste to buy a new GPU and put it into this old system

Why? You can upgrade the rest later if you want. Have you tried downclocking and downvolting the gpu? How about putting another fan inside the casE?

 

[mparr1708]

Why? You can upgrade the rest later if you want. Have you tried downclocking and downvolting the gpu? How about putting another fan inside the casE?

The thought of spending money on something that won't be used to its fullest potential just seems off to me. Not sure if my logic is sound but that's my thought anyway.

Also, this is my case:

http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower/cm-690-ii-ver-2/

I probably have an older version (its like 5 years old) but the fan layout looks the same. Things run pretty cool in this case so I'm not sure adding another fan would help.

I'll do some reading about reworking the TIM on my graphics card.

I may be upgrading anyway because I just bought 3 new games:

Sid Meier's Civilization V: The Complete Edition
Bioshock Infinite
Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast

All that for like 22.59 on a slickdeal coupon seemed like a no-brainer.

I'm pretty sure Civ 5 and Bioshock need more than what I have today in order to look their best. Not sure about Star Wars.

 

[Termie]

The thought of spending money on something that won't be used to its fullest potential just seems off to me. Not sure if my logic is sound but that's my thought anyway.

Also, this is my case:

http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower/cm-690-ii-ver-2/

I probably have an older version (its like 5 years old) but the fan layout looks the same. Things run pretty cool in this case so I'm not sure adding another fan would help.

I'll do some reading about reworking the TIM on my graphics card.

I may be upgrading anyway because I just bought 3 new games:

Sid Meier's Civilization V: The Complete Edition
Bioshock Infinite
Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast

All that for like 22.59 on a slickdeal coupon seemed like a no-brainer.

I'm pretty sure Civ 5 and Bioshock need more than what I have today in order to look their best. Not sure about Star Wars.

Civ5 and Bioshock will definitely perform better on a new CPU. Star Wars doesn't need new hardware.

If it weren't for your GTX470 showing signs of failure, you could just upgrade the CPU/motherboard/RAM and call it a day. But the GTX470 was a hot-running GPU, and like most GPUs that fit that description, it's life expectancy is probably a bit below average. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in reapplying the thermal interface, but you could always try it as long as you're OK with the process not succeeding.

To replace the video card, I'd again recommend the GTX 750 Ti, or the GTX 660 if you'd like a bit more performance than your GTX 470 provides (about 20% faster).

 

[mparr1708]

To replace the video card, I'd again recommend the GTX 750 Ti, or the GTX 660 if you'd like a bit more performance than your GTX 470 provides (about 20% faster).

If I were to go with a GTX 750 TI, would I be able to run all of the games I've talked about with max settings and AA at 1080p with no issues?

 

[Termie]

If I were to go with a GTX 750 TI, would I be able to run all of the games I've talked about with max settings and AA at 1080p with no issues?

Rome Total War 2 and Bioshock Infinite are the toughest games you've mentioned.

You can see for yourself how they perform at 1080p:

TW: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7764/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-750-ti-and-gtx-750-review-maxwell/17
BI: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7764/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-750-ti-and-gtx-750-review-maxwell/13

Looks like you might have to drop the settings a bit for Total War. Either way, maximum settings rarely bring image quality enhancements proportionate to the toll they take on the GPU, so in my opinion the 750 Ti is a good pick for your needs.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

If I were to go with a GTX 750 TI, would I be able to run all of the games I've talked about with max settings and AA at 1080p with no issues?

I'd say probably.... depends on your fps needs/wants

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7764/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-750-ti-and-gtx-750-review-maxwell/13

 

[mparr1708]

Would it be better to take a nicer 750 TI like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814487028

For 159.99 AR

or (perceived in my mind anyway) a lesser GTX 660 like this:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...e_GTX_660_2048MB_GDDR5_PCIe_30_x16_Video_Card

PNY lower clocks and 169.99 AR

The evga is a factory overclock 750 TI. I'm just wondering if the 750 TI factory overclocked would start to catch the 660 or not? We are only talking a 10 dollar spread between the two after rebates.

 

[Termie]

Would it be better to take a nicer 750 TI like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814487028

For 159.99 AR

or (perceived in my mind anyway) a lesser GTX 660 like this:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/...e_GTX_660_2048MB_GDDR5_PCIe_30_x16_Video_Card

PNY lower clocks and 169.99 AR

The evga is a factory overclock 750 TI. I'm just wondering if the 750 TI factory overclocked would start to catch the 660 or not? We are only talking a 10 dollar spread between the two after rebates.

The 660 is still faster, by about 10%, but I'd take the 750 Ti FTW without question, due to its much more modern design. It uses half the power, will run much quieter, and will produce almost no excess heat.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

EVGA makes really good cards.... I'd probably agree with Termie unless maximum FPS is you ultimate goal. The 660 is going to be, at a minimum, 10% faster, and in some cases more like 20%.

 

[mparr1708]

I still haven't decided on the video card but I'm definitely rebuilding. I just got Staples to price match microcenter for an i5-4570 @ 159.99. It took two phone calls (first rep was nice but wouldn't budge) but persistence pays off some times. I'm inclined to just slow play it for a bit and see what happens with the r7-265 before getting everything I need.

Thanks to everyone for their help. Very much appreciated.