Upgrade VGA For GAMES

[BHZ-GTR]

Hi Guys

I plan to upgrade my graphics card .

My graphics card is now { PowerColor Turbo Duo R9 280X 3GB GCN 1.0 }.

MY Budget is 400$ .

I want to play in the future {The Witcher 3 , COD : Black Ops3 , BF New Version , Batman Arkham , GTA V , ... }

Recommended to wait until the next generation grow published .

Thank You Guys .

 

[RussianSensation]

Gigabyte G1 970 or MSI Gaming 970 fits your budget. 970 is a great card for the games you described because it already ships with The Witcher 3 as one of the games you already intend to buy. Also, PhysX for Batman (and Batman will favour NV cards), plus solid performance in GTA V. All of this assumes your CPU is at least a Core i5 though.

 

[raghu78]

My advice is to wait till June 1st. We will know more about R9 380X and R9 380 by that time. btw whats your CPU, PSU and monitor resolution.

 

[BHZ-GTR]

Thank You .

I'm going to buy a new graphics card generation {Like Fiji Pro Or Geranada XT} Is Full Compatible DirectX 12 (FL-12.1)

CPU : Intel Corei7 4930K - PSU = Enermax Revolution 87+ 850W - Monitor : Samsung P2200 Full HD

 

[raghu78]

Thank You .

I'm going to buy a new graphics card generation {Like Fiji Pro Or Geranada XT} Is Full Compatible DirectX 12 (FL-12.1)

CPU : Intel Corei7 4930K - PSU = Enermax Revolution 87+ 850W - Monitor : Samsung P2200 Full HD

good decision. I would say all the misinformation around AMDs' products will be dispelled by Computex. I expect three new chips - Bermuda (R9 390 series) , Fiji (R9 380 series) and Trinidad (R9 370 series). I expect Bermuda with 4096 sp (8GB) and Fiji with 3072 sp (4GB) to sport HBM.

 

[BHZ-GTR]

Okay, So I will wait.

I think AMD's next generation will be more successful

I decided to buy my graphics card r9 390 or r9 380x

The most positive thing I Wait

What is your opinion of a friend

 

[raghu78]

Okay, So I will wait.

I think AMD's next generation will be more successful

I decided to buy my graphics card r9 390 or r9 380x

The most positive thing I Wait

What is your opinion of a friend

Depending on your budget thats what I would advice. :thumbsup:

 

[Techhog]

Okay, So I will wait.

I think AMD's next generation will be more successful

I decided to buy my graphics card r9 390 or r9 380x

The most positive thing I Wait

What is your opinion of a friend

It's extremely unlikely that the 390 will cost less than $400, and the 380X is most likely a 290X rebrand.

 

[Shehriazad]

It's extremely unlikely that the 390 will cost less than $400, and the 380X is most likely a 290X rebrand.

People throwing around the word rebrand way too much as if it was a bad thing.... the GTX 770 was a rebrand...and it was one of the most popular cards in the 700 lineup.
They won't just rebadge a 290X...there would be actual improvements to the chip/tech on the back and frontend...

So even if the chip inside was a relative of the 290X...it would likely end up being superior to a 290X in some aspects (including newer software/API support)

 

[Techhog]

People throwing around the word rebrand way too much as if it was a bad thing.... the GTX 770 was a rebrand...and it was one of the most popular cards in the 700 lineup.
They won't just rebadge a 290X...there would be actual improvements to the chip/tech on the back and frontend...

So even if the chip inside was a relative of the 290X...it would likely end up being superior to a 290X in some aspects (including newer software/API support)

None of the rebrands in the 200-series were like that, so why would I expect it now?

 

[mikeymikec]

People throwing around the word rebrand way too much as if it was a bad thing.... the GTX 770 was a rebrand...

Please explain how rebranding an older product to make it look like a newer product serves the customer in any practical way.

 

[Shehriazad]

None of the rebrands in the 200-series were like that, so why would I expect it now?

So what? Not ever series is full of win...Nvidia had bad and good rebranding going on as well.
So did AMD...it's almost like it was the tick-tock of rebranding.

Please explain how rebranding an older product to make it look like a newer product serves the customer in any practical way.

Better binning, improved features, better price...dunno, pick one.

 

[BHZ-GTR]

My budget is likely to increase the supply and I can buy a good graphics card and strong

 

[redzo]

Please explain how rebranding an older product to make it look like a newer product serves the customer in any practical way.

hd7970 < hd7970ghz < r9 280x
gtx680 < gtx770

Same chips, but with increased memory and core clocks and a little price drop with each rebrand. While the performance benefit might not be huge, if you add the price drop into the mix, i'll say that's a customer benefit right there.

But if your competitor's products aren't also rebrands, it might not be a good business idea in practice. This can be the case if the 380x turns up to be a 290x rebrand as it's gonna have a hard time competing because of its power consumption handicap.

 

[RussianSensation]

It's extremely unlikely that the 390 will cost less than $400, and the 380X is most likely a 290X rebrand.

How would taking a 290X, changing the name of it to 390X increase sales at $400 when it doesn't sell at $300? In Canada, US and the UK, R9 290X sells for less or is very close to a GTX970. You are suggesting AMD will raise the price $100 to increase sales? :awe:

Rebranding of R9 200 series worked because the entire stack was very pretty competitive in perf/watt, overall performance and price/perf. With GTX970s hovering at the $300-350 mark, you won't be able to sell 290X performance with 270W power usage at $399.

The performance delta doesn't at all add up. If you say R9 380X is just an R9 290X rebrand with no performance improvements, priced at $399, then there is too large of a gap between R9 390/390X series in performance and the 380X if the R9 390X performance rumours are to be believed.

Also, with the retail available likely pushed to 2H 2015 now, the R9 380/380X rebranding theory makes less sense than ever. If all you are doing is rebranding existing product, why would you keep delaying your launch if you can just rebrand them and sell them at higher prices? This doesn't add up.

Finally, look at the existing inventory levels of R9 290X cards. They are dwindling like crazy. In Canada, the major tech enthusiast stores hardly have any left. If you are rebranding, you should have thousands of R9 290X chips waiting to be used in R9 380X. This doesn't add up.

I think in a typical AMD fashion they will establish new price/performance levels with their new launch. I expect $399 R9 380X to be as fast as a GTX980, maybe 5% faster even.

Please explain how rebranding an older product to make it look like a newer product serves the customer in any practical way.

Re-branding almost always entails similar or faster performance for way lower prices.

$499-599 GTX680 2-4GB ---> $379-449 GTX770 2GB-4GB --> later dropped to $329 / $379.
$549 HD7970Ghz --> $299 R9 280X
$449 HD7950 --> $249 R9 280

The consumer gets previous gen high-end performance at mid-range prices. The lower levels also have to drop such as R9 270X at $199 vs. HD7870 for $349.

That's actually one of the major reasons the re-branding strategy for R9 290/290X hardly makes sense. You can't drop their prices much lower as they already sell for $240-300 in the US. You either need to make these cards more power efficient OR faster OR both if you want to relaunch them at $299 and $399.

My budget is likely to increase the supply and I can buy a good graphics card and strong

If you are not in a rush to buy a new card, then keep waiting. Depending on how well cards hold value in Iran, you could always buy a 290X/GTX970 to hold you over for 6 months and then resell it and get something faster. I do have a feeling that because AMD is under so much pressure, they will have to provide one of the most price/performance competitive generations in years to regain market share. I wouldn't be surprised at 980 level of performance for $399 and for R9 390 at $549.

 

[Techhog]

How would taking a 290X, changing the name of it to 390X increase sales at $400 when it doesn't sell at $300? In Canada, US and the UK, R9 290X sells for less or is very close to a GTX970. You are suggesting AMD will raise the price $100 to increase sales? :awe:

Rebranding of R9 200 series worked because the entire stack was very pretty competitive in perf/watt, overall performance and price/perf. With GTX970s hovering at the $300-350 mark, you won't be able to sell 290X performance with 270W power usage at $399.

The performance delta doesn't at all add up. If you say R9 380X is just an R9 290X rebrand with no performance improvements, priced at $399, then there is too large of a gap between R9 390/390X series in performance and the 380X if the R9 390X performance rumours are to be believed.

Also, with the retail available likely pushed to 2H 2015 now, the R9 380/380X rebranding theory makes less sense than ever. If all you are doing is rebranding existing product, why would you keep delaying your launch if you can just rebrand them and sell them at higher prices? This doesn't add up.

Finally, look at the existing inventory levels of R9 290X cards. They are dwindling like crazy. In Canada, the major tech enthusiast stores hardly have any left. If you are rebranding, you should have thousands of R9 290X chips waiting to be used in R9 380X. This doesn't add up.

I think in a typical AMD fashion they will establish new price/performance levels with their new launch. I expect $399 R9 380X to be as fast as a GTX980, maybe 5% faster even.

This is all assuming that the 380X will be $399. It could be $299 or $349 with a modest boost in stock clocks, while the 390 is $499/549 and beats the 980.

 

[RussianSensation]

This is all assuming that the 380X will be $399. It could be $299 or $349 with a modest boost in stock clocks, while the 390 is $499/549 and beats the 980.

This is where we are today:

1080P
$500-550 980 is 14% faster than 290X
$1000-1100 980 SLI is 13% faster than 290X CF

1440P
980 is 11% faster than 290X
980 SLI is 9% faster than 290X CF

4K
980 is 6% faster than 290X
980 SLI is 5% faster than 290X CF

Wouldn't a 10% increase in performance of a 290X in a 380X for $299-349 be a HUGE change in the marketplace considering GTX980 sells for $500+? The lowest I've ever seen a 980 is $475 USD.

Add DP 1.2a/1.3, HDMI 2.0, sell R9 380/380X with only after-market coolers, add Tonga's UVD chip, and all of a sudden this looks like the best card in the market in the $300-500 space. It will force NV to cut the price of a 980 by $70-100. Consumers win!

When do you remember a new generation of AMD cards that offered worse price/performance to NV? Every time AMD launches a new gen of cards, NV is either forced to drop prices or release faster SKUs. It's happened every single generation since HD4800 series. I don't see why R9 300 would be different.

Will R9 300 series offer better price/performance to an after-market $240 R9 290? I doubt it because I don't see AMD offering a card 50% faster than an R9 290 for $359 at launch. That's why whoever is buying R9 290/GTX970 today is unlikely to be disappointed. However, those aiming to buy $500 GTX980 or $1K Titan X, for them GM200 6GB and R9 300 series should make the greatest impact. Given how close R9 290X is to 980 today, I just don't see how a $550 R9 390 series card won't blow 980 away.

 

[futurefields]

Hi Guys

I plan to upgrade my graphics card .

My graphics card is now { PowerColor Turbo Duo R9 280X 3GB GCN 1.0 }.

MY Budget is 400$ .

I want to play in the future {The Witcher 3 , COD : Black Ops3 , BF New Version , Batman Arkham , GTA V , ... }

Recommended to wait until the next generation grow published .

Thank You Guys .

R9 280X is still a good card and should play those games great @ 1080p.

I think it's only worth it for you to upgrade if you are running above 1080p.

 

[JDG1980]

Add DP 1.2a/1.3, HDMI 2.0, sell R9 380/380X with only after-market coolers, add Tonga's UVD chip, and all of a sudden this looks like the best card in the market in the $300-500 space. It will force NV to cut the price of a 980 by $70-100. Consumers win!

But once you start doing that kind of stuff, it's no longer a rebrand. If you're going to add Tonga's UVD decoder then you might as well go all the way and add Carrizo's HEVC decoding as well. And while you're at it you might as well update the architecture to GCN 1.2. And since GCN 1.2's delta color compression technology reduces bandwidth requirements, why not drop the bus width from 512-bit to 384-bit, reducing costs? At that point you've basically got a new chip that just happens to have the same number of shaders as Hawaii.

 

[JDG1980]

None of the rebrands in the 200-series were like that, so why would I expect it now?

Because back in late 2013 when the R9-series rebrands were unleashed, the legacy GCN cards were still competitive in pure performance and perf/watt. Bumping the clocks and cutting the prices was a viable solution. Today, though, Maxwell absolutely destroys them in perf/watt. GM204 is 20% faster than Hawaii while using 100W less power under full load. A simple rebrand of Hawaii just won't cut it. It will be 18 months before 16nm/14nm FinFET+ is ready, and AMD can't expect rebrands to hold the line for that time, not when they've already run out of steam.

 

[3DVagabond]

Except for Tonga the other SKU's are too old, IMO. Even Hawaii, which in brute performance is still good, it would need a pretty big boost in efficiency.

 

[Techhog]

Because back in late 2013 when the R9-series rebrands were unleashed, the legacy GCN cards were still competitive in pure performance and perf/watt. Bumping the clocks and cutting the prices was a viable solution. Today, though, Maxwell absolutely destroys them in perf/watt. GM204 is 20% faster than Hawaii while using 100W less power under full load. A simple rebrand of Hawaii just won't cut it. It will be 18 months before 16nm/14nm FinFET+ is ready, and AMD can't expect rebrands to hold the line for that time, not when they've already run out of steam.

If they can't afford to improve to that level, they don't have any other options.

 

[RussianSensation]

If they can't afford to improve to that level, they don't have any other options.

But thus far no one has been able to answer this question:

If 100% rebrand, why keep delaying the launch of R9 370 - 380X series? Just take R9 270/270X/280/280X/290/290X boxes starting January 1st 2015 and just call them 300 series. How hard it is to put a new sticker on a card? With most of those cards there isn't even a name on the card so it would literally be just putting a new sticker on the back of the PCB and just putting the card into a new box.

These are R9 280/280X cards

These are R9 290/290X cards.

Without checking the power pin count and the sticker on the back of the cards, no one would be able to tell R9 280/280X/290/290X apart.

R9 280X tri-X looks identical to the R9 290/290X Tri-Xs, which means all 280/280X/290/290X cards can be re-badged into 370/370X/380/380X in a matter of weeks!!! Therefore, if you are re-branding, you don't need to change anything about the heatsinks, PCBs, literally nothing. You just need a new box, and a new sticker on the back of the PCB. AMD couldn't figure out how to do that for 6 months? Are we supposed to believe that?

So again, answer this: Why delay the launch of R9 370/370X/380/380X by a whopping 6 months if you can just take all the boxes for 200 series, throw them out, print new boxes and change the stickers on the back of the PCB? With cheap labour in China, this would cost peanuts to do.

Why would AMD push the launch of R9 300 series all the way to Q3 2015 if 90% of everything are pure rebrands? By rebrands I assume you mean 0 changes to the card's performance, perf/watt, etc., correct?

If they can't afford to improve to that level, they don't have any other options.

How can NV improve perf/watt by 60-70% with Maxwell but AMD can't even move it 10% in 1.5 years? You actually believe this? Also, going by what you are saying, R9 290 sells for $240-275 today and R9 290X for $280-350. So how in the world would rebranded R9 380/380X fit into this?

R9 270X = $140
R9 280 = $150
R9 280X = $190
R9 290 = $240
R9 290X = $280

Not a single re-branding theorist on AT forums has been able to provide a clear answer of HOW exactly can AMD rebrand all of these cards?

Option 1: same or higher prices

If AMD can't gain market share at those prices i listed above, they can't just take those cards and raise prices. Keep prices the same also does nothing.

Option 2: lower prices

Consequently, if they are 100% rebranding and want to gain market share, they have to lower prices. Otherwise, the new cards have to be faster, offer better features, superior perf/watt.

The re-branding theory cannot reconcile how it's possible to re-release Pitcairn, Tahiti and Hawaii with identical performance and perf/watt at lower prices though because AMD is already losing $ with existing prices of the same cards!

Thus, the re-branding theory fails to explain how AMD can re-release identical cards at lower prices, the same prices or higher prices given AMD's GPU division's financial results in the last 2 quarters.

 

[JDG1980]

If they can't afford to improve to that level, they don't have any other options.

Even if the improvements don't quite match Maxwell, having at least some movement forward increases the possibility that they'll be able to sell cards at prices that will earn money. As things stand, they're practically giving away their existing products; I find it hard to believe that massive 512-bit Hawaii cards are profitable at their current $250-$320 price points.

There are numerous things AMD could do to improve their GPUs without having to develop any new technological breakthroughs. These could be done with AMD's current resources, technology, and IP:

• Move the chip fabrication from TSMC's 28nm process to GloFo 28nm SHP, which is designed specifically with GPUs and APUs in mind, and should offer somewhat greater efficiency. (This is assuming 20nm turned out to be a dud, which is widely rumored, but not known for sure.)
• Update existing architectures to GCN 1.2. Because of greater memory bandwidth efficiency, this would then allow bus widths to be narrowed: the Hawaii replacement could have a 384-bit bus instead of 512-bit, and the Pitcairn replacement could have a 192-bit bus instead of 256-bit. This would reduce power requirements and die size.
• Cut out double-precision computing from the Hawaii replacement, as it's not needed for a gaming card. The existing Hawaii design can continue to be used for the FirePro W8100/W9100. This will reduce die size on the consumer cards somewhat.
• In addition to the GCN 1.2 UVD improvements, also incorporate the hardware HEVC decoder from Carrizo into the new chips. If at all possible, support HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.3 as well. (This might require a bit of new work, and DP 1.3 might not be possible yet, but HDMI 2.0 is already in lots of other products and obviously isn't rocket science to implement.) This will make the new cards more desirable for HTPC and related uses.

Tonga's relative lack of efficiency is a bit of a mystery; judging from the R9 285, it doesn't seem to be much better in perf/watt than the old 7950 (Tahiti), if at all. On the other hand, the FirePro W7100 only has a 150W TDP, compared to the R9 285's 190W (sadly, no FurMark tests are available to indicate its real power draw, nor whether it accomplishes this by throttling). And the Retina iMac R9 M295X chip (fully enabled Tonga) has an apparent TDP of 125W or so. Sure, it's downclocked, but it's far more efficient, and if it were dropped down a tier to the R9 370X, that kind of performance would be acceptable. I am beginning to suspect that R9 285 is bottom-of-the-barrel trash silicon, and all the good stuff went to the other applications.


Even if the improvements I outlined above don't match or beat Maxwell, they'll still allow AMD to make some moderately profitable sales, and remain relevant in the minds of GPU consumers. That's better that having nothing at all for 18 months while Nvidia continues to whittle away at what little market share they have left.

 

[loccothan]

Wait and see
IMO the R3xx series will be no renames, why?
Cuz the Freesync and other vital tech from AMD.
So IMO all GPU's will be GCN 1.2 at least
and the R390 will be GCN 1.3 for 100%
Also all is rumours, we don't know nuthin' but the GPU's exists