Upgrading from 8800GT?

[3DVagabond]

Pretty sure its clear what I wrote. There are a tremendous amount of unknown variables with any overclocking, especially when where generalizing any gtx 460.
You interjected VRM cooling from left field. Others brought up general cooling without links/data. Then overclocking was brought up in another ' what if ' ' what if' scenario that has nothing to do with the ops questions.

I interjected VRM cooling because it's relevant to the cooler discussion. You interjected RAM cooling. You showed charts for GPU temps. It's all part of the ongoing discussion. I was just trying to clarify what you were saying.

 

[timma]

buy GTX 460 SOC or 6850 OC from gigabyte~

 

[BD231]

Pretty sure its clear what I wrote. There are a tremendous amount of unknown variables with any overclocking, especially when where generalizing any gtx 460.
You interjected VRM cooling from left field. Others brought up general cooling without links/data. Then overclocking was brought up in another ' what if ' ' what if' scenario that has nothing to do with the ops questions.

I'm just wondering why you would assume someone buying a card would not be interested in thermal design or scalability.

 

[notty22]

I'm just wondering why you would assume someone buying a card would not be interested in thermal design or scalability.

Sure that should be a consideration for some, its covered in most reviews of reference and custom models. Potential buyers also need to beware of bad information from forums.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Maybe I misunderstood the original post that said 460's had crap cooling? If anyone is saying that the 460 GPU isn't properly cooled, I'll disagree with them. They were the 1st Fermi arch. cards that didn't run hot. As well as having reasonable power consumption. There have been reports of poorly cooled VRM's though that appear to have merit.

Not you. You were clearly trying to dig into the VRM cooling, and then there were links posted that didn't provide any data refuting or disputing the actual claim you and BD231 made.

 

[Skurge]

http://translate.google.com/transla...809-5/comparatif-14-geforce-gtx-460-1-go.html

Well, no one can say reference AMD cards are over engineered can they. They usually have more phases and larger coolers. Thats usually why their cards are so much longer than the equivalent cards.

So, if you are going to get a 460, get the ones with the more robust custom PCBs, like the hawk or the DirectCU

Or get a 6870 that is probably best suited to that resolution, as AMD cards perform better at higher resolution.

 

[SolMiester]

It isn't, some GTX460s have crap cooling.

What is it, #4 you said MOST, now you are saying SOME?...Anand has the reference 460 @ lower temps for both idle and load against your 68xx series!
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4137/...-6950-1gb-xfxs-radeon-hd-6870-black-edition/6

 

[bryanW1995]

If you're not much of an overclocker a 6850 or 6870 is probably best. Stock cooling on most GTX 460's is crap so that's something to watch out for. When overclocked a GTX 460 will quickly overload almost any stock coolers thermal capacity.

Add that to lower CPU overhead, pretty even price points/performance and you've got yourself an easy choice in the 6850/6870.

WTF???? Are you serious? My gtx 468 768 at 905/4400 using 1.087v doesn't get above 70c in anything I throw at it, including furmark, kombustor, occt, crysis demo, etc etc etc. in fact, iirc it was 66c max at 100% load for 10+ minutes in any of those. 100% stock cooling, I think that I fiddled a very small amount to the fan profile to keep it silent for as long as possible but otherwise left it alone. In fact, I never hear my fan above my case fan. And this is not just a "one person outlier", I've seen/heard a LOT of people with similar experiences. In fact, the very few "bad" experiences I've seen are more like an 800-820 max core, which is still not a bad OC on most cards.

You must have been talking about a different card.

 

[bryanW1995]

Wow, alot to think about.


I should have mentioned I have a 24" Dell Ultrasharp so 1920 X 1200 is the resolution.

I have always gone Nvidia, nothing against ATI though. Just always thought Nvidia had the lead on the hardware as well as driver support. I will do some research on ATI before I make a decision, especially if I get more bang for the buck at my price range.

ok, at that high of a resolution I'd snag something beefier like a 5850 or maybe 5870 if you can find one on sale. gtx 460 is a bit underpowered for that, and the 560 is too much.

Unbeknownst to you it's not. I have one of the more extravagant coolers/vrm sinks in the Gigabyte GTX 460 OC and the stock cooler simply was not capeable of keeping that card cool at 1.50/1.087v in furmark or games that fully load the GPU. The temp would never stabilize in furmark and while gaming, even with the fans on full blast I could not leave my fingers on the heat pipe's.

Personally I don't like my hardware running that hot. At stock it's a different story but I'm just letting the OP know if he's an overclocker he might be a little disappointed with stock cooling like I was.

Bought an after market cooler and temps have been manageable ever since.

so, how hot did it get? 70c? 80c? if it was too hot to touch that could have been 70c. Were you getting artifacting? if temp was above 75c even at absolute max OC and max load then you either had an issue with that specific cooler or possibly with the thermal paste, but even at 90c you would still be gtg. heck, my old gtx 260 gets up to 100c at times and is still going strong after 2 years of nearly continuous DC.

 

[SolMiester]

Which is why i said...SOME.

Sorry bud, i got you has #4 post in error!

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I've been dragging my feet for a while about upgrading my Evga 8800GT for a while now. I really don't game a ton but I do play the COD series of games. 8800GT does OK but I know it can get better. So what would a decent upgrade be less than $200?

Also, I want to make sure if will fit in my case. Case is in sig.

What resolution do you run at?

Well, good cards under $200 include. (in order of performance)
HD5770 for $100 AR
GTX460 768 for $130 AR
GTX460 1GB for 160 AR
HD6850 for $160 AR
HD5850 for $180 AR
HD6870 for $200 AR

Those are the only ones you should be looking at IMO.
The longest card there, the 6870, is just under 10". It should fit in your case.

I have a 6870 and an Antec P180 (even smaller case I believe), the 6870 fits perfectly fine. No installation issues.

 

[bubapapua]

For the price about $200, the best option is the GeForce GTX 460. This video card can play the latest games smoothly (even to max settings). For a cheaper version (about $100), the best option is GeFoce GTS 450 and GeForce GTS 250. Everything is of course better than the 8800 GT, you said 8800 GT good enough, so the GTS 250, GTS 450, and GTX 460 will give much better results.

 

[RavenSEAL]

What is it, #4 you said MOST, now you are saying SOME?...Anand has the reference 460 @ lower temps for both idle and load against your 68xx series!
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4137/...-6950-1gb-xfxs-radeon-hd-6870-black-edition/6

I said some from the start

I haven't even edited that post. Learn2Read

 

[BD231]

so, how hot did it get? 70c? 80c? if it was too hot to touch that could have been 70c. Were you getting artifacting? if temp was above 75c even at absolute max OC and max load then you either had an issue with that specific cooler or possibly with the thermal paste, but even at 90c you would still be gtg. heck, my old gtx 260 gets up to 100c at times and is still going strong after 2 years of nearly continuous DC.

This was coming from a 4850 that never went past mid to high 50's gaming overclocked to 700mhz on stock cooling so I was pretty shocked. Artifacts only showed up @ 890mhz+ core. High GPU utilization games would lead to a black screen or driver crash with these settings ~> (1.050v/850, 1.087v/875). Not the case with my new cooler so I was clearly limited. Kinna hard to check temps when your computer is frozen so I'm not quite sure what the breaking point was gaming. In furmark it was 93c before a crash.

At all stock settings temps never went past the low to mid sixties with the stock cooler but the only reason I got the GTX 460 was due to it's potential overclock all the reviews talk about. Just thought I'd post my results and thoughts on stock cooling. Definitely smart to go for the cards with the better copper coolers IMO.

 

[s44]

I said some from the start

True, but you posted to defend the guy who was rightly getting ripped for saying "most" (see quotes in post 5).

 

[SolMiester]

I said some from the start

I haven't even edited that post. Learn2Read

Yeah, I apologised in #35!!...Jeez!

 

[Rifter]

460's do not run hot. Bot of mine stay below 70c even at 860Mhz. Even when i was running them sandwiched together the top card stayed below 80c. I have also never experianced the VRM's on either my cyclone or hawk overheating. The amd 4xxx series was hot, my old 4890 would hit 95c.

 

[3DVagabond]

460's do not run hot. Bot of mine stay below 70c even at 860Mhz. Even when i was running them sandwiched together the top card stayed below 80c. I have also never experianced the VRM's on either my cyclone or hawk overheating. The amd 4xxx series was hot, my old 4890 would hit 95c.

Your Hawk has 7 phase PWM which allows over twice the current of the stock design (At least according to MSI. ). I don't believe your Cyclone is built so beefy though. I can't find anything saying for certain, but that leads me to believe that the power stage of the card isn't anything particularly robust. If it was I imagine it would be easier to find info on it. You might want to be a bit more conservative with your clocks because of that, unless you can find where they've beefed up the power stage of that card as well.

 

[BD231]

True, but you posted to defend the guy who was rightly getting ripped for saying "most" (see quotes in post 5).

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5862

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=183957

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=535224&mpage=1

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=325495

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iLNkQLv-eU

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/19556-gtx-460-overheating-issue/

http://forums.hardware-revolution.com/showthread.php?tid=144

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=552825&mpage=1

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/301409-33-installed-cyclone-overheating

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/785738-Black-screen-GTX-460-over-heating

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=17252

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667249

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=652474

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27564748

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101212121422AAJ3r1O

http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/24883-welcome-gigabyte-technical-support-122.html

Yeah, I was *TOTALLY* rightfully ripped on . ANYWHO. Good luck with the purchase OP. If you get a 460 and intend to OC get one that comes with a good copper cooler.

 

[Rifter]

Your Hawk has 7 phase PWM which allows over twice the current of the stock design (At least according to MSI. ). I don't believe your Cyclone is built so beefy though. I can't find anything saying for certain, but that leads me to believe that the power stage of the card isn't anything particularly robust. If it was I imagine it would be easier to find info on it. You might want to be a bit more conservative with your clocks because of that, unless you can find where they've beefed up the power stage of that card as well.

I purchased the cyclone first and ran it at 900Mhz for a few months before going SLI, im sure it can take the 860Mhz fine as it has been proven stable at higher clocks for a few months.

However you are right, its not as beefy as the hawk and you can tell this just by looking at the PCB(i took the cooler off to lap it, giving me a good view of the PCB). This is why i have it in the lower slot so it can run cooler in the hopes this will prolong its lifetime.

I can tell you from personal experiance and a DC electronics background that the MSI cyclone is only 3 phase power(like the ref design) but with very good quality components, better than most found on PCB's of GPU's in this price bracket.

 

[bryanW1995]

This was coming from a 4850 that never went past mid to high 50's gaming overclocked to 700mhz on stock cooling so I was pretty shocked. Artifacts only showed up @ 890mhz+ core. High GPU utilization games would lead to a black screen or driver crash with these settings ~> (1.050v/850, 1.087v/875). Not the case with my new cooler so I was clearly limited. Kinna hard to check temps when your computer is frozen so I'm not quite sure what the breaking point was gaming. In furmark it was 93c before a crash.

At all stock settings temps never went past the low to mid sixties with the stock cooler but the only reason I got the GTX 460 was due to it's potential overclock all the reviews talk about. Just thought I'd post my results and thoughts on stock cooling. Definitely smart to go for the cards with the better copper coolers IMO.

wow, yeah if you were getting that hot then it looks like your cooler was overwhelmed. That's funny, usually the non-stock coolers are better, but it looks like in this case GB was just trying to make it cheaper. At least in my case and all of the early-adopters that I've seen the stock cooler was sufficient for a huge OC. In fact, mine is running 2 instances of seti whenever I'm not gaming, though I dropped the OC to 850 for 24/7 use just to ensure that it holds up for the long haul.

edit: funny that you mention the 4850, I upgrade to a gtx 260 from my 4850 b/c my temps were too high and the single slot cooler was extremely loud/annoying.

 

[bryanW1995]

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5862

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=183957

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=535224&mpage=1

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=325495

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iLNkQLv-eU

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/19556-gtx-460-overheating-issue/

http://forums.hardware-revolution.com/showthread.php?tid=144

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=552825&mpage=1

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/301409-33-installed-cyclone-overheating

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/785738-Black-screen-GTX-460-over-heating

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=17252

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667249

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=652474

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27564748

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101212121422AAJ3r1O

http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/24883-welcome-gigabyte-technical-support-122.html

Yeah, I was *TOTALLY* rightfully ripped on . ANYWHO. Good luck with the purchase OP. If you get a 460 and intend to OC get one that comes with a good copper cooler.

the gtx 460 was the top selling upper/mid gpu of 2010, I wouldn't say that 15 instances of overheating equates to "most". I spend a lot of time on these forums, and I don't recall seeing another person complain about overheating on his gtx 460 here in fact. And before you go columbo on me, I'll say that there have probably been a few very isolated cases of it, but isn't it telling that with such a large installed user base there aren't MORE complaints? And, even in your case, your issue was not that the card wouldn't run at stock or overclocked, you were upset that it wouldn't run at a 30+ % overclock because, surprise surprise, the cooler wasn't engineered for that type of load. In fact, the one issue that I have seen here was when idontcare had trouble getting his gtx 460 stable above 830 or so, so again, the card was great at stock but it just wouldn't do the typical 30% OC that we've all come to expect as "standard". I don't think he had a cooler issue, I think that his temps were fine he was just failing OCCT at 830.

 

[BD231]

the cooler wasn't engineered for that type of load

Exactly my point, many reviewers state great OC's are possible on stock cooling when in fact some of the coolers aren't even rated for the additional output. Now that's my idea of bad info. Like the rest of us I'm sure the OP is going to consider a cards overall potential so I just don't want him to be mislead like I was.

 

[de8212]

I didn't even consider the heat aspect of things. I have a decent case with decent airflow but as you can see by my sig I eventually had to put an aftermarket cooler on my 8800GT.


So, with heat in mind, as well as $200 - $220 what is the best choice on each platform (nVidia and ATI)?

I typically like Evga because of the lifetime warranties but I think they only make Nvidia???

I'm just overly cautious about buying a card with 2/3 year warranty.

 

[Termie]

I didn't even consider the heat aspect of things. I have a decent case with decent airflow but as you can see by my sig I eventually had to put an aftermarket cooler on my 8800GT.


So, with heat in mind, as well as $200 - $220 what is the best choice on each platform (nVidia and ATI)?

I typically like Evga because of the lifetime warranties but I think they only make Nvidia???

I'm just overly cautious about buying a card with 2/3 year warranty.

XFX offers a "double lifetime" warranty on all of its cards, although you sometimes pay a bit more for them. The HD6870 models (four to choose from) are all just over $200 after rebate right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...eId=1&name=XFX

If you're willing to accept a 2-year warranty, the Sapphire HD6870 is $178AR and is the best deal under $200: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102913

You won't have a heat problem with any of these, although you may wish to use a blower-style heatsink (the ones with a fan at the end rather than the middle) to push air out of the case, rather than around the case. That keeps the computer's internal cooler, and while the VGA might run hotter, these chips don't come close to overheating.