Upgrading! KT333? KT400? Nforce2? PC2700? 3200?

[escapek]

Looking to upgrade my current system and have been out of the loop since I've built my last. Current system is an Epox 8K7A (Which has been great!), Athlon 1.2G running @ 1.33G, Geforce4 Ti4400, 256MB Crucial PC2100, Blah, Blah, Blah. System is used mostly for gaming. Looking to move to a new AMD setup (Athlon XP 2400? 2600? 2800?) which bascially to me means new motherboard, processor, memory. All my other stuff will move into the new box. Here's the problem. I've been reading about KT333 which seems to be the fastest and most mature/stable Athlon chipset available. Then there is the new KT400 which offers little performance increase but isn't as mature. Then there is the upcoming Nforce2 (although I don't seem to need all the "onboard" stuff it touts like graphics, sound, etc.). Then there is memory now which is PC2700, 3200, etc. I'm not even sure what is for what. Question, if you were upgrading in the next few weeks, what would you go with?

Thx...JS

 

[kgraeme]

With what's available now, I would go with KT333. You can't go with nForce2 since they aren't shipping yet.

 

[Oakenfold]

Why don't you read some of Evan's articles?

 

[Vette73]

Well if you are going to order/build it in the next week or so I would go with the Epox KT333/8235 board. Has a lot of features, is proven and liked by many.

Now if you are talking about doing this in a month or so then wait and see what the KT400a and nForce boards do when they hit retail channels.

 

[halkebul]

I would wait for a AMD 2400+/nForce2/DDR400 combo. nVidia has worked on the price for nForce2 boards so don't worry about that. There is no reason for performance seekers to choose a Via Socket A board over nForce2. Via holds no cost advantage either. The original nForce was priced too high but the nForce2 SPP and MCP-T will be positioned ?well-below? the $100 range. For their integrated IGP solution, NVIDIA is claiming to be able to sell boards for the $100 price range. I gather from your post that you have done some overclocking. Because of this, I recommend this combo:

AMD 2400+ cpu
nForce2 mobo with MCP-T
(2) 256MB Mushkin DDR400 memory modules
XP unlocking kit from HighSpeedPC

Tweaks:
Unlock the 2400+ with the XP unlocking kit I mentioned above so that you can adjust the multiplier.
Assemble the computer.
On first boot up enter the bios.
Lock the AGP and PCI busses to the default frequencies.
Set the multiplier to 12.
In increments, increase the FSB to 200MHz (400MHz quad-pumped).
Run memory at 400MHz.

Result:
2.4GHz Thoroughbred-B processor.
Minimal latency because the FSB/Memory speed frequencies are synchroneous.

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: halkebul
the nForce2 SPP and MCP-T will be positioned ?well-below? the $100 range. For their integrated IGP solution, NVIDIA is claiming to be able to sell boards for the $100 price range.

That pricing is now looking optimistic.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: halkebul
I would wait for a AMD 2400+/nForce2/DDR400 combo. nVidia has worked on the price for nForce2 boards so don't worry about that. There is no reason for performance seekers to choose a Via Socket A board over nForce2. Via holds no cost advantage either. The original nForce was priced too high but the nForce2 SPP and MCP-T will be positioned ?well-below? the $100 range. For their integrated IGP solution, NVIDIA is claiming to be able to sell boards for the $100 price range. I gather from your post that you have done some overclocking. Because of this, I recommend this combo:

AMD 2400+ cpu
nForce2 mobo with MCP-T
(2) 256MB Mushkin DDR400 memory modules
XP unlocking kit from HighSpeedPC

Tweaks:
Unlock the 2400+ with the XP unlocking kit I mentioned above so that you can adjust the multiplier.
Assemble the computer.
On first boot up enter the bios.
Lock the AGP and PCI busses to the default frequencies.
Set the multiplier to 6.
In increments, increase the FSB to 400MHz.
Run memory at 400MHz.

Result:
2.4GHz Thoroughbred-B processor.
Minimal latency because the FSB/Memory speed frequencies are synchroneous.

Forget that. Just get the Epox 8K9A2. You can adjust the Thoroughbred multipliers from the system BIOS. This board seems quite impressive.

 

[NicColt]

>Just get the Epox 8K9A2. You can adjust the Thoroughbred multipliers from the system BIOS. This board seems quite impressive.

"there is no need to unlock the Thoroughbred CPUs for this board since the Vss is connected to ground when the T'Bred is seated into the CPU socket"

The board by default will unlock all XP processors. Is this impressive or what. I'm getting one.

 

[Technonut]

Originally posted by: NicColt
>Just get the Epox 8K9A2. You can adjust the Thoroughbred multipliers from the system BIOS. This board seems quite impressive.

"there is no need to unlock the Thoroughbred CPUs for this board since the Vss is connected to ground when the T'Bred is seated into the CPU socket"

The board by default will unlock all XP processors. Is this impressive or what. I'm getting one.

Yes, the board is VERY impressive. I want to get one also, but I am forcing myself to see if the KT400A North Bridge will have 1/6 divider support. (the clock generator already does) If it has, hopefully EPoX will use it to make the 8K9A2+ a truly impressive board. If not.... I probably will purchase it anyway.

 

[Kazuo]

I am ashamed of all of you.
Setting the multiplier to 6 and setting FSB to 400MHz yields a 1.2GHz Thoroughbred! What the heck are you thinking?
The FSB is double-pumped! 6*200 = 1200MHz, not 2400.

Get a 2800+, set the multiplier to 12 and do that and you *might* get a 2.4GHz Thoroughbred, but it's really unlikely.
I bet my XP 1600+ AGOIA will do the 1200MHz at 400FSB
Personally, I think 1750MHz at 333MHz FSB sounds a lot nicer though.
Anyway, in regards to the original question:
Buy as fast RAM as you can afford, especially if you plan on overclocking, because you should have the RAM running *at least* as fast as the CPU- most chipsets require it. PC2700 is a must.
As for the processor, try and make sure you're getting a Thoroughbred-B. They're far superior to the Palomino and Thoroughbred cores.
Ideally, wait a little bit and see what happens with Barton, which could be an even bigger improvement. You can still run all of today's games just fine on your current system.
Anyway, KT333 sounds good. It's inexpensive and is basically the same as a KT400. AGP 8x may become a player in the future, but right now, it's a non-issue. nForce2 appears to be a sweet deal. It might be worth waiting and seeing how that comes out.
Personally, I'd try and hold off till the middle of Q1 2003 if possible.

That Epox board sounds mighty sweet! Does it work with Palominos too? (Edit: Obviously, the answer was yes as the previous post said. Sorry.)

 

[NicColt]

sadly Kazuo has a point, I think we should just stop thinking about DDR400 and just concentrate on 333/333 for the moment just don't think of getting a KT400 for DDR400.

 

[Kazuo]

Well, I didn't exactly mean that. If you can get a stable 400/400, then by all means!
But that's difficult. I honestly think that an XP 2800+ should be plenty fast for anything you need to do today though.
I mean, that should easily allow for real-time DivX encoding even. A nice stable KT333 board and a fast AthlonXP sounds ideal. KT400 just doesn't bring anything that spectacular to the table.
I'll love seeing dual-channel DDR come to the AthlonXP platform soon, as well as QBM if it happens (which I'm more excited about). If dual-channel QBM ever happens, we'll be up to our necks in RAM bandwidth- we'd probably have to wait till the 5GHz P4s start rolling out (next year, at this rate...) to max that out

Interesting fact of the day- in my computer architecture class today, we uncovered the reason why "infinite limit" overclocking doesn't exist: the pipelines in today's processors are limited by the slowest step. If that slowest step doesn't operate properly in that time you've given the processor to do it in, corruption occurs in the processor leading to, you guessed it, instability! It seems obvious, doesn't it?

 

[halkebul]

Simple mistake, I meant multiplier of 12 and FSB of 200MHz (400MHz double-pumped).

 

[Kazuo]

I know. I was just messing around, I wasn't really angry about it. I don't think an XP 2400+ has a shot at that though. Jumping the FSB up 67MHz (133->200) is not an easy feat. I doubt anything below the 2700+ should even really be considered. Remember that the 2400+ isn't 2.4GHz to begin with, so you'd be doing some overclocking while jumping the FSB up.
Ideally, you could get it at 400MHz FSB * 10 = 2.0GHz, which would probably be pretty fast still though.

 

[Technonut]

It is no great feat to run a high FSB on my EPoX 8K5A2+. I currently run at 2 GHz / System Bus 421.36 with a MP 2100 / 128MB Radeon 8500. Rock solid.

The trick is to have a working 1/6 divider to keep my Radeon 9700 happy with lower PCI / AGP Bus speeds than the 1/5 divider allows.

EDIT: I threw together a P4 ABIT IT7 MAX rig just for the ability to lock the PCI / AGP Bus to run the 9700 at the OC'ed speeds that I like. (Currently a 1.8A @ 2800 MHz)

 

[NicColt]

>The trick is to have a working 1/6 divider to keep my Radeon 9700 happy

Problem right now is that even if you had the 1/6 divider like the soyo KT400 claims it has the KT400 CE chipset doesn't have the proper memory controlers to handle it. So until the KT400 CD or KT400/A come out 1/6 divider is useless.

 

[30wolverine30]

Corsair XMS PC3500 cas2!!! nuff said.