Upgrading my Video Card and PSU [Help Needed]

[chaosphoenix440]

Hello! I am new to AnandTech Forums. I want to upgrade my system. I would like to apologize in advance for how long this post is. I just have a lot of questions.


Computer Specifications:
Model: HP Pavilion HPE Series
Model No.: h8-1070t Intel(Chicago)
Motherboard: Pegatron Corporation 2AB5
CPU: Intel Core i7 2600 quad core @ 3.4GHz
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 6670 1GB (Firebird)
Memory: 9GB DDR3-1333 MHz SDRAM [4GB + 4GB + 1GB]
HD 1.5TB 7200RPM
PSU: 300W microATX(?) Power Supply (Merlot D) [150mm x 140mm x 86mm]
Super Multi DVD Burner
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium [64 bit]
Display: NEC MultiSync EA231WMi
Resolution: 1920 x 1080
Refresh Rate: 60Hz

Use: Gaming, school, work
Budget: $420 Reserved for Parts. I will pay tax and shipping on top of that.
Country: United States

I will not be waiting for NVIDIA Maxwell. My budget cannot be increased (aside from *maybe* $10 or so). I will only be running a single video card. I will not be overclocking since I don’t know how to. I want to learn how in the future though.

I want to get a new video card and a new power supply unit to complement it. I was hoping that this new video card would have equal or superior performance to the PS4/XBONE for the lifecycle of those consoles. If not, I would like it to last 4-5 years. Is this possible on a $420 budget? Should I be afraid of console optimization or Mantle rendering my new video card obsolete?

I would prefer to purchase from Amazon.com because of the free shipping and Amazon Prime. If that is not practical or is too expensive, Newegg would work since I heard that they are good. If either of those are not practical or are too expensive, then I am not against ordering from a different place. I would just prefer to order from these two sites first.

According to CPUID HWMonitor, my current graphics card hits 106 degrees Celsius maximum while playing Skyrim. Is this too high? My processor never exceeds 60 degrees Celsius. My HDD never exceeds 40 degrees Celsius. Because of this, I think that the problem is with my 6670 and not the rest of the system. The fan works on the 6670, though it only has a single small fan. My computer is not very dusty. Do you think this temperature problem is due to my 6670, or is there not enough cooling in my system? Is HWMonitor giving me an inaccurate temperature for the 6670?

I was considering getting the MSI GTX N770: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127741

Will the 2GB VRAM be a problem in the future? Should I get a different card? A different GTX 770 model? I’ve heard that the MSI runs cool and quiet. Is this true?

For a PSU, I would prefer if it was “future proof” so I don’t have to buy another one in 4 years or so when I upgrade my video card again. I would prefer to get a SeaSonic or Corsair PSU since I heard that they are of good quality. I don’t want to risk damaging my system due to a poor quality PSU. I am not against a different brand, I just want to make sure that the quality is good. I prefer modular to keep the system cooler.
Is 620W enough for my system? 650W? 750W? Which is “future proof”?

Should I get this one? Is it compatible with the MSI N770?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151095

Or this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139048
600W or 750W? The 750W is a bit of a stretch on the budget, but I might be able to afford it.

According to this list: http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/323050.aspx
The SeaSonic is a 2nd tier, and the Corsair is only a 3rd tier. Should I get a lower wattage TX Corsair(2nd tier) over a higher wattage CX Corsair(3rd tier)? Is 3rd tier “good enough”? Are there better choices for a PSU than these?

Also, will the MSI N770 or other video card fit in my case? This looks like my motherboard: http://www.estaxe.com/index.php/layout-pegatron-corporation-2ab5-mainboard-components/
If you look, the ram slots are very close to the PCI Express x16 slot. Will the video card be blocked by the RAM? As long as there is nothing sticking out of the back of the video card, I think it should fit. Also, after 10 inches or so, the video card might be blocked by the HDD’s SATA cable. If this is the case, would the cable fit above or below the card? I am willing to provide photos of the inside of my computer; I just don’t know how to put them on here. Will a PCI Express 3.0 card work in a PCI Express 2.0? Will the performance be worse?

Once again, I’m sorry for how long this post is. I’ve been researching this stuff for a while now, but unfortunately I still have a lot of questions. I appreciate your help. Also, if you have a better GPU/PSU recommendation please share it with me.

 

[nwo]

Hello and welcome to the forums!

I'll try to give you some of my input, hopefully it will be helpful to you...

According to CPUID HWMonitor, my current graphics card hits 106 degrees Celsius maximum while playing Skyrim. Is this too high?

That is extremely high. I am surprised you're not experiencing throttling, severe lag, artifacts, or PC restarts.

The SeaSonic is a 2nd tier, and the Corsair is only a 3rd tier. Should I get a lower wattage TX Corsair(2nd tier) over a higher wattage CX Corsair(3rd tier)? Is 3rd tier “good enough”? Are there better choices for a PSU than these?

Can't really go wrong with any Seasonic PSU.

Corsair makes pretty decent PSUs too. They aren't top notch, but you might as well pocket the $20 since a 600W PSU is sufficient for any single GPU setup now and will continue to be sufficient later down the road. 600W is future proof enough for any single GPU setup.

Will the 2GB VRAM be a problem in the future? Should I get a different card? A different GTX 770 model? I’ve heard that the MSI runs cool and quiet. Is this true?

It might. It depends on your resolution. For 1080p it might be enough for a couple of years, but even that is questionable. Anything higher than 1080p and I'd say you better get 3 or 4GB if you want your card to last more than a year.

Most nonreference cards run cool and quiet. MSI should be one of them.

Will a PCI Express 3.0 card work in a PCI Express 2.0? Will the performance be worse?

It should be backwards compatible. It should work. Performance will not be worse.

A few additional side notes:
You cannot overclock on OEM computers. In addition, you can only overclock on (Intel) motherboards that have the "P" or "Z" chipset. So in your case, your CPU would have to be a 2600K (K means it has an unlocked multiplier which makes overclocking a breeze) and the motherboard would have to be P67, z68, or z77 chipset.

I tried upgrading the PSU and video card in my HP rig a few weeks ago. It did not go too well and I was barely able to revert back to the original setup. I tried putting in a Radeon 4870 and a Thermaltake TR2 600W PSU. I was able to get the PSU on there somehow, but the system was unstable after installing the video card and AMD's drivers. Maybe I was doing something wrong. But just mentioning it as a precaution.

Also, I am not sure that a GTX 770 will fit in your case. You might want to measure how much space you have from the expansion slot bracket to your HDD rack or whatever else could get in the way of your PCI-e slot. A GTX 770 should be between 11 and 12 inches for the non-reference model.

Another advice I can give you is to get rid of the 1GB stick of RAM you have in your rig right now. It's doing more harm than good. Just do it.

 

[fralexandr]

The hp case seems like it has terrible airflow. Most 6670s load at around 60-80C.

From the H8-1000 series upgrade instructions, it looks like it can probably fit a full sized card.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&docname=c02881490
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02871896.pdf
I can only see a ~80mm rear fan, but it looks like they have venting in front of the drive cage for an additional fan. Adding a fan here would most likely not affect cooling for longer GPUs, but would lower hdd/cpu temps (your temps for these are fine though).

The only exhaust fan for the GPU seems to be the PSU.
Therefore, I recommend getting a BLOWER style card (aka stock cooler on many GPUs).
These cards tend to be noisier and hotter, but are designed for cases such as this.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...egory&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=5115724#N277
The highest end video card configured by hp is the 6850/460

So the fastest gpu your case is approved to handle is roughly an amd 7850/nvidia 660 (not TI)
A google search turns up people attempting to fit nvidia gtx 760s or amd 7870s though.

600w PSU is fine, it'd be possible to run that setup on a 450-500w, since overclocking should be kept to a minimum (non k cpu, poor case ventilation)

It looks like there should be space for routing cables on top of the video card.
as per step 3 of the replacing the graphics link (1st link).

Also, longer posts typically include more information, which allows everyone else to better help you.

 

[chaosphoenix440]

Hello and welcome to the forums!

I'll try to give you some of my input, hopefully it will be helpful to you...

Thanks for helping me.

That is extremely high. I am surprised you're not experiencing throttling, severe lag, artifacts, or PC restarts.

My PC did shut down once.

Can't really go wrong with any Seasonic PSU.

Corsair makes pretty decent PSUs too. They aren't top notch, but you might as well pocket the $20 since a 600W PSU is sufficient for any single GPU setup now and will continue to be sufficient later down the road. 600W is future proof enough for any single GPU setup.

Are the connecters right on that PSU, and are the Amps high enough? I'll try to check for myself, but I could use a second opinion. I'm just kind of paranoid since I've never done this before.

It might. It depends on your resolution. For 1080p it might be enough for a couple of years, but even that is questionable. Anything higher than 1080p and I'd say you better get 3 or 4GB if you want your card to last more than a year.

I can't afford the 4GB 770, so my other option is to get a 4GB 760. I've researched this, and it seems like nobody really knows for sure. Most people say to go with the faster card as the 760 can't utilize the extra VRAM or something...

Most nonreference cards run cool and quiet. MSI should be one of them.

This is a relief since my computer is extremely loud and my 6670 is running way too hot.

I tried upgrading the PSU and video card in my HP rig a few weeks ago. It did not go too well and I was barely able to revert back to the original setup. I tried putting in a Radeon 4870 and a Thermaltake TR2 600W PSU. I was able to get the PSU on there somehow, but the system was unstable after installing the video card and AMD's drivers. Maybe I was doing something wrong. But just mentioning it as a precaution.

Yeah, I'm never buying a prebuilt again. I only did so since I didn't have time to build one myself since I needed a computer for college. Hopefully it will work out. This scares me though: https://forums.geforce.com/default/...h-nvidia-gtx770-won-t-boot-past-splash-screen

Also, I am not sure that a GTX 770 will fit in your case. You might want to measure how much space you have from the expansion slot bracket to your HDD rack or whatever else could get in the way of your PCI-e slot. A GTX 770 should be between 11 and 12 inches for the non-reference model.

It's around 10 inches or so. It looks like The card will go above the HDD Bay and below the DVD drive.

Another advice I can give you is to get rid of the 1GB stick of RAM you have in your rig right now. It's doing more harm than good. Just do it.

CPU Z is showing that I'm running in dual channel. Do you still think that I should remove it?

 

[chaosphoenix440]

This is close to what the inside of my computer looks like: http://imageshack.us/a/img152/4940/20120927172715.jpg

 

[fralexandr]

that's a much nicer pick than hp's default one's hah .
Any reason why you're sticking to nvidia gpus? amd's r9 equivalents have more ram if you're seriously worried about it.

 

[chaosphoenix440]

that's a much nicer pick than hp's default one's hah .
Any reason why you're sticking to nvidia gpus? amd's r9 equivalents have more ram if you're seriously worried about it.

The R9 280X is extremely expensive right now due to Litecoin mining.

 

[fralexandr]

k, well as per my previous post, you might want to look at getting a blower card, since the PSU seems to be the primary exhaust for the GPU.

Blowers exhaust most of their heat out of the case, whereas the multi fan/centered fan variants exhaust into the case.

 

[chaosphoenix440]

Apparently some people are having an issue with the compatibility with the motherboard.

 

[fralexandr]

hp and other oems have been known to have a whitelist on many of their prebuilts.
http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/293403-beware-dreaded-white-list-hp-guilty-charged.html

 

[mfenn]

Regarding whitelisting, keep in mind that is for a notebook which is much more tightly integrated than a desktop. That being said, be sure that you're OK with potentially returning components if it doesn't work.

I agree with fralexander that a blower card would be best for your case. Something like this:

PNY GTX 770 blower $310
Seasonic S12II 620W $65
Total: $375

 

[chaosphoenix440]

Thanks for the recommendation, mfenn.

If I get a new case, should I get a micro atx or atx form factor?
If I get a new motherboard, should I get a micro atx or atx form factor?
Will I need to buy a copy of Windows if I change my motherboard?
Will I need to buy new thermal paste for the cpu?

 

[chaosphoenix440]

Would the PNY GTX 770 run cooler than the 6670? That might save me the cost of getting a new case. I will have to see what the return policy is if it doesn't work with the mobo.

 

[nwo]

Thanks for the recommendation, mfenn.

If I get a new case, should I get a micro atx or atx form factor?
If I get a new motherboard, should I get a micro atx or atx form factor?
Will I need to buy a copy of Windows if I change my motherboard?
Will I need to buy new thermal paste for the cpu?

It's up to you. I always go with ATX mid tower but it's just a matter of personal preference.

Again, I prefer ATX form factor for the motherboard as well, but you can go either way.

Yes. If you do not currently own a windows license and are using the windows OS that came with the HP PC, then you will have to buy a copy of windows when you change the motherboard. That's assuming you are running an OEM version and not the retail version. You could call up HP and complain to them that your mobo died and you had to get a replacement and see what they have to say about it and if you can avoid spending $100 on the OS.

Not necessarily although it would be recommended since it looks like it's been a couple of years. It is recommended to reapply thermal paste every couple of years. But since you're not OCing, I doubt it will matter too much.

Would the PNY GTX 770 run cooler than the 6670? That might save me the cost of getting a new case. I will have to see what the return policy is if it doesn't work with the mobo.

The GTX 770 will definitely run cooler than 106*C if that's what you're asking

CPU Z is showing that I'm running in dual channel. Do you still think that I should remove it?

As far as I know, you cannot run dual channel with 3 sticks. Also, all of one of the RAM sticks have to be the same size/spec in order to run in dual channel.

 

[chaosphoenix440]

Thanks, nwo!

As far as I know, you cannot run dual channel with 3 sticks. Also, all of one of the RAM sticks have to be the same size/spec in order to run in dual channel.

I think that the 2x4 gb sticks are running in dual channel, and the 1 gb stick is running in single channel. CPU-Z is showing the Channel# as dual, and the DRAM Frequency as 665.1 MHz. When I took the 1 gb stick out CPU-Z still showed the Channel # as dual.

I might look into getting something good for my needs now and upgrade my computer further once I complete my engineering degree. It is likely that my motherboard supports the 600 series cards, so I might pick up a 660 or something similar. I'll try to get a blower style card and hope that it will stay cool. I'll have to see if the 660 or similar will run today's games on high 1080p @ 60fps or so, which should last until I get my degree in about 2 years.

Any recommendations?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

As far as I know, you cannot run dual channel with 3 sticks. Also, all of one of the RAM sticks have to be the same size/spec in order to run in dual channel.

There are a couple of quirks if you use an Intel CPU with FlexMemory (Almost anything Core2+).

1) Every DIMM has to operate at the same frequency and timings, which usually means the lowest common denominator between DIMMs.
2) You can run dual channel with 3 DIMMs, but any remaining remaining capacity after pairing gets mapped for single channel operation only. Lets say you have 3x2GB DIMMs, the first 4GB will be mapped for dual channel, but the last 2GB is single channel only.
3) For optimal performance capacity on each channel needs to be the same. Lets say you have 2x2GB and wish to add 1x4GB. Then you'd have to put the two 2GB DIMMs on channel A and the 4GB DIMM on channel B. That way the whole memory will be mapped for dual channel operation.

I hope that make sense...

 

[chaosphoenix440]

There are a couple of quirks if you use an Intel CPU with FlexMemory (Almost anything Core2+).

1) Every DIMM has to operate at the same frequency and timings, which usually means the lowest common denominator between DIMMs.
2) You can run dual channel with 3 DIMMs, but any remaining remaining capacity after pairing gets mapped for single channel operation only. Lets say you have 3x2GB DIMMs, the first 4GB will be mapped for dual channel, but the last 2GB is single channel only.
3) For optimal performance capacity on each channel needs to be the same. Lets say you have 2x2GB and wish to add 1x4GB. Then you'd have to put the two 2GB DIMMs on channel A and the 4GB DIMM on channel B. That way the whole memory will be mapped for dual channel operation.

I hope that make sense...

Thanks for your response. I think that #2 is what is going on here. The 2x4 gb is in dual channel, whereas the extra 1 gb is in single channel.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Evga GTX 760 for $250
Rosewill 550w PSU for $50.- AR

 

[nwo]

I'll have to see if the 660 or similar will run today's games on high 1080p @ 60fps or so, which should last until I get my degree in about 2 years.

Any recommendations?

Depends on which games you play. But a GTX 660 will not run BF4 maxed out @ 1080p with 60 fps. It might be able to do it on high though. A GTX 760 should be able to do it on ultra. Performance difference between the two is around 30%.

I'd recommend ordering it (GTX 660 or 760) from a place which has a good return policy so that you can return it in case it ends up being incompatible with your motherboard.

 

[chaosphoenix440]

Mostly Skyrim, Dark Souls, and Dark Souls 2. AC4 and Watchdogs looks interesting. A quick Google search shows a benchmark for a system similar to mine (same cpu and mobo) with the gtx 660, so I'm more confident that that will be compatible: http://www.3dmark.com/is/1270576

1080p @ 60 fps on high (not ultra) is fine today for me. That means that I am likely to run 1080p @ 60 fps on medium in the near future. I might pick up a psu with at least 600W so I won't have to upgrade the psu in 2 years time. I don't want to go over 650W since the mobo might not support it.

 

[chaosphoenix440]

It seems like the gtx 670 might work. Would this psu work?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&SID=u00000687

 

[nwo]

It seems like the gtx 670 might work. Would this psu work?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&SID=u00000687

That PSU will definitely work with the 670. Whether it will work with the rest of your HP PC, I have no idea. I hate OEM PCs. I thought things improved but I recently found out they didn't after I failed to successfully upgrade my PSU and add a GPU on my HP PC.

 

[chaosphoenix440]

That PSU will definitely work with the 670. Whether it will work with the rest of your HP PC, I have no idea. I hate OEM PCs. I thought things improved but I recently found out they didn't after I failed to successfully upgrade my PSU and add a GPU on my HP PC.

I found a gtx 670 benchmark with the same cpu and motherboard that I have, so it will probably be compatible. What I'm seeing is that the 700 series has problems, but the 600 series seems fine. I'm over 90% sure I can fit the card in my case. I might go for it. I'll post my results later; it might help somebody who is in the same predicament as me. The main concern I have is cooling.

 

[nwo]

I found a gtx 670 benchmark with the same cpu and motherboard that I have, so it will probably be compatible. What I'm seeing is that the 700 series has problems, but the 600 series seems fine. I'm over 90% sure I can fit the card in my case. I might go for it. I'll post my results later; it might help somebody who is in the same predicament as me. The main concern I have is cooling.

As long as you have reference cooling on your GTX 670 and at least one case fan (which you have), you will be fine. It seems like you shouldn't have a problem fitting it in your case since the HDD rack will not interfere with the GPU/PCI-e slot.

If worse comes to worse, you will have to have the side panel open, but I really don't think it will come to that point.

 

[chaosphoenix440]

I can get a refurbished 670 w/ 90 day warranty for the same price as a 660:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/R-MSI-N670G...C_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item51b87c1bec#viTabs_0

Though I've never bought anything refurbished so I don't know if I should. :/