Urban crime rates and the changing face of immigration

[Ackmed]

I have a cousin that works at Google as a software engineer. The overwhelming majority of workers in high tech companies are liberal (Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.)... if there are any 'conservatives', they're few and far between and are typically of the libertarian variety. Garden variety conservatives are too stupid to do anything that requires intelligence.

Sure, some jobs lend themselves to certain kinds of people. Your example is more about location though. I have hundreds of engineers who work where I do. Aerospace, electrical, and chemical to name a few. Oh yeah, and software engineers too. As they say, location, location, location. I would imagine your estimation is reversed where I am, because of where it is compared to where those are. Far more right leaning people than left, as the votes showed.

Your absolute ignorance, and incorrect blanket statement that they don't have intelligence to do anything, and they they're too stupid just makes you look like the type of person who helped Trump to get elected. Looking down their nose at people, calling them stupid, being an elitist, blaming racists for Trumps election. This type of attitude pushed people towards Trump. A lot of those types here, you seem to fit in with them. If you don't want 4 more years, or someone worse, I'd suggest a change of attitude. Or at least keep it to yourself.

Get your lazy butt into the fields and start picking my strawberries. Nice and early. I'll even pay a little more if it says, picked by uppity Trump supporters bent over for 12 hours a day.

Seems only one "uppity" here, above poster. Something tells me he is not a Trump supporter.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Literacy in this case means understanding 1. what he blusters about, 2. how the study works, 3. and how 2 addresses 1. For you I would similarly recommend pondering 2 for while to to grasp how it's orthogonal to your own 1.

He said that the study does little more than note a correlation between immigration and decrease and crime. That's what I'm getting out of the study as well. They included a few poor controls showing that there are things that correlate worse than immigration (gee no shit), but who cares? Tell us what else we're missing; you only quoted a blurb from the ArsTechnica article in the OP, so I'm not sure you've even tried reading it.

 

[agent00f]

He said that the study does little more than note a correlation between immigration and decrease and crime. That's what I'm getting out of the study as well. They included a few poor controls showing that there are things that correlate worse than immigration (gee no shit), but who cares? Tell us what else we're missing; you only quoted a blurb from the ArsTechnica article in the OP, so I'm not sure you've even tried reading it.

It's only your motivated rationalization that their control is poor, justified by concocted counterexamples backed by absolutely nothing but conservative ideology, which is just about the worst possible source of scientific anything. Note even the "browns are genetically criminal" guy above can accept this given his idiot "it skips generations" argument, a similar instance of motivated rationalization.

Sure, some jobs lend themselves to certain kinds of people. Your example is more about location though. I have hundreds of engineers who work where I do. Aerospace, electrical, and chemical to name a few. Oh yeah, and software engineers too. As they say, location, location, location. I would imagine your estimation is reversed where I am, because of where it is compared to where those are. Far more right leaning people than left, as the votes showed.

Your absolute ignorance, and incorrect blanket statement that they don't have intelligence to do anything, and they they're too stupid just makes you look like the type of person who helped Trump to get elected. Looking down their nose at people, calling them stupid, being an elitist, blaming racists for Trumps election. This type of attitude pushed people towards Trump. A lot of those types here, you seem to fit in with them. If you don't want 4 more years, or someone worse, I'd suggest a change of attitude. Or at least keep it to yourself.

It's simply a fact that conservatism drops off a cliff with educational attainment. This makes perfect sense given increased reasoning ability directly decreases adherence to archaic tradition and leads to the natural consequence of reason.

Seems only one "uppity" here, above poster. Something tells me he is not a Trump supporter.

Uppity implies confidence beyond one's ability/station, as perfectly exemplified by the blustering conservative.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It's only your motivated rationalization that their control is poor, justified by concocted counterexamples backed by absolutely nothing but conservative ideology, which is just about the worst possible source of scientific anything. Note even the "browns are genetically criminal" guy above can accept this given his idiot "it skips generations" argument, a similar instance of motivated rationalization.

13% of Americans (blacks) commit nearly 50% of murder. A similar disparity holds up for most other violent crime as well. Further, "white flight" is well-documented, particularly around blacks. Immigrants would have reason to specifically live in metro areas where blacks are underrepresented in the population, being that usually it also means lower crime and better jobs. Reality backs that up.

I'm not saying that they have to look at my exact idea for a control, I'm just saying that the controls they do look at are inherently poor. Giving examples of non-correlations does nothing to validate a correlation except to maybe say that one's analytical method is capable of generating non-correlations. Who cares if manufacturing, population youthfulness, or "deprivation" have statistically insignificant correlations with crime for the purpose of trying to prove that immigration drives down crime?

 

[agent00f]

13% of Americans (blacks) commit nearly 50% of murder. A similar disparity holds up for most other violent crime as well. Further, "white flight" is well-documented, particularly around blacks. Immigrants would have reason to specifically live in metro areas where blacks are underrepresented in the population, being that usually it also means lower crime and better jobs. Reality backs that up.

I'm not saying that they have to look at my exact idea for a control, I'm just saying that the controls they do look at are inherently poor. Giving examples of non-correlations does nothing to validate a correlation except to maybe say that one's analytical method is capable of generating non-correlations. Who cares if manufacturing, population youthfulness, or "deprivation" have statistically insignificant correlations with crime for the purpose of trying to prove that immigration drives down crime?

If you're going to attempt motivated rationalization, at least get your logic right. What you want to claim is that immigrants are criminals, but less criminal than blacks, and thus by moving to "those areas" they lower the crime rate there as shown by the study conclusion. Now I'm pretty sure if you actually read the study, the authors will have thought of such things and address them, but that's probably too much to ask, so baby steps.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

If you're going to attempt motivated rationalization, at least get your logic right. What you want to claim is that immigrants are criminals, but less criminal than blacks, and thus by moving to "those areas" they lower the crime rate there as shown by the study conclusion. Now I'm pretty sure if you actually read the study, the authors will have thought of such things and address them, but that's probably too much to ask, so baby steps.

I've never said that legal immigrants are criminals. Legal immigrants of any demographic are underrepresented in crime. Further, you're still demonstrating your terrible reading comprehension again. I'm specifically saying that legal immigrants don't move to ""those areas"", because they don't want to and would rather live in safer areas more suited to educated/skilled employment, being that our government specifically favors immigrants that are already doctors, engineers, etc. The only things I see in the study vaguely relevant are

1) Mentions of previous studies showing that immigrants can improve high-crime/high-unemployment areas. Duh. I fully agree with that and it in no way contradicts my point about the study of THIS paper.
2) Mention of studies that look into the effect of immigration out-competing blacks in the workplace. Interesting, but not really relevant to my point or the paper's study. I mean, "Analyzing black and Latino homicides in El Paso, Miami, and San Diego, Lee’s (2003) results suggested that the effect of immigration on homicide was negative, except for a positive effect on black homicides in San Diego." proves my point if anything.
3) Their "deprivation" control does contain % black as one component of their index, but they don't clearly define how they weigh the various variables, and I can't read their previous 2005 study on it.

 

[agent00f]

I've never said that legal immigrants are criminals. Legal immigrants of any demographic are underrepresented in crime. Further, you're still demonstrating your terrible reading comprehension again. I'm specifically saying that legal immigrants don't move to ""those areas"", because they don't want to and would rather live in safer areas more suited to educated/skilled employment, being that our government specifically favors immigrants that are already doctors, engineers, etc.

If you're basically agreeing with the study then it's a mystery why you're so keen to shittalk it. Keep in mind much of illegal immigration started out legal, and if anything illegals are reluctant to do anything to warrant attention of authorities.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

If you're basically agreeing with the study then it's a mystery why you're so keen to shittalk it. Keep in mind much of illegal immigration started out legal, and if anything illegals are reluctant to do anything to warrant attention of authorities.

Because a garbage study deserves to be called garbage, because it opens explicitly politicized, and because it attacks a strawman (legal immigration).

 

[agent00f]

Because a garbage study deserves to be called garbage, because it opens explicitly politicized, and because it attacks a strawman (legal immigration).

The study was presumably brought up as a counterargument to people who don't care for foreigners, and you proclaim to agree with everything it implies, so what exactly is the problem? Again keep in mind Mexico is by far the largest source of immigrants, and illegals often start out legal.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The study was presumably brought up as a counterargument to people who don't care for foreigners, and you ostensibly agree with everything it implies, so what exactly is the problem? Again keep in mind Mexico is by far the largest source of immigrants, and illegals often start out legal.

Mexican immigrants are a plurality, not anywhere near a majority. According to Wikipedia they're a quarter, mixed in with a bunch of Asian groups that commit violent crime at a rate iirc 30 times lower than Hispanics and 10 times lower than whites. That can obviously distort things and makes using an average of all immigrants to describe individual immigrant groups a bad idea.

 

[agent00f]

Mexican immigrants are a plurality, not anywhere near a majority. According to Wikipedia they're a quarter, mixed in with a bunch of Asian groups that commit violent crime at a rate iirc 30 times lower than Hispanics and 10 times lower than whites. That can obviously distort things and makes using an average of all immigrants to describe individual immigrant groups a bad idea.

Hispanics are a majority. A majority of those asians aren't exactly H1B's.

 

[agent00f]

Also forgot to mention that you're now literally insinuating what you proclaimed I failed to comprehend a few posts ago. I love being omniscient.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Hispanics are a majority. A majority of those asians aren't exactly H1B's.

I'm talking about illegal immigration. Are the millions of Brazilians, Chileans, Argentinians, etc coming here through the Southern border illegally in search of menial labor? Not all brown people are Mexican. In any case, even if they were, it looks borderline; maybe a little bit over half are Hispanic, and currently Hispanics do not make up a majority of new arrivals. That still doesn't account for the significant differences seen between Asian immigrants on the whole and Hispanic immigrants on the whole.

 

[agent00f]

I'm talking about illegal immigration. Are the millions of Brazilians, Chileans, Argentinians, etc coming here through the Southern border illegally in search of menial labor? Not all brown people are Mexican. In any case, even if they were, it looks borderline; maybe a little bit over half are Hispanic, and currently Hispanics do not make up a majority of new arrivals. That still doesn't account for the significant differences seen between Asian immigrants on the whole and Hispanic immigrants on the whole.

If you work out what you're trying to say, you'll notice it exactly matches what I said you should, but you vehemently denied presumably because it sounded kinda racist. Worth pondering the implications of that.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

If you work out what you're trying to say, you'll notice it exactly matches what I said you should, but you vehemently denied because it sounded kinda racist. Worth pondering the implications of that.

If you ever learn how to give eye-contact directly and respond to people maybe I'll be able to figure out what you're talking about.

 

[agent00f]

If you ever learn how to give eye-contact directly and respond to people maybe I'll be able to figure out what you're talking about.

You've been claiming all these illegals and browns are criminals, which doesn't exactly logically square with your theory about immigrants only moving into good neighborhoods making them even better. So where so the majority hispanics perps go? I tried to help out and at least make your theory quantitatively sound, but evidently you were having none of that.

 

[m8d]

Americans seem to be anti-immigration? People don't want illegal aliens coming to the US. We should be looking to have people coming to the country that commit less crimes. Duh!! Who thinks that having new groups of people that maintain or increase the level of unacceptable behavior is the correct path?

So is the thought that if we open up the floodgates, that all of our problems will be fixed?

 

[senseamp]

Sure, some jobs lend themselves to certain kinds of people. Your example is more about location though. I have hundreds of engineers who work where I do. Aerospace, electrical, and chemical to name a few. Oh yeah, and software engineers too. As they say, location, location, location. I would imagine your estimation is reversed where I am, because of where it is compared to where those are. Far more right leaning people than left, as the votes showed.

Your absolute ignorance, and incorrect blanket statement that they don't have intelligence to do anything, and they they're too stupid just makes you look like the type of person who helped Trump to get elected. Looking down their nose at people, calling them stupid, being an elitist, blaming racists for Trumps election. This type of attitude pushed people towards Trump. A lot of those types here, you seem to fit in with them. If you don't want 4 more years, or someone worse, I'd suggest a change of attitude. Or at least keep it to yourself.



Seems only one "uppity" here, above poster. Something tells me he is not a Trump supporter.

Whatever, If Trump Trash wants to deport people picking our food, they better get out there, bend over, take a nice breath of pesticides, and start picking.

 

[Phokus]

Sure, some jobs lend themselves to certain kinds of people. Your example is more about location though. I have hundreds of engineers who work where I do. Aerospace, electrical, and chemical to name a few. Oh yeah, and software engineers too. As they say, location, location, location. I would imagine your estimation is reversed where I am, because of where it is compared to where those are. Far more right leaning people than left, as the votes showed.

Your absolute ignorance, and incorrect blanket statement that they don't have intelligence to do anything, and they they're too stupid just makes you look like the type of person who helped Trump to get elected. Looking down their nose at people, calling them stupid, being an elitist, blaming racists for Trumps election. This type of attitude pushed people towards Trump. A lot of those types here, you seem to fit in with them. If you don't want 4 more years, or someone worse, I'd suggest a change of attitude. Or at least keep it to yourself.



Seems only one "uppity" here, above poster. Something tells me he is not a Trump supporter.

Engineering is a mostly left leaning occupation.

http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/index.html

Of all the engineering professions, software engineering is the MOST left leaning out of all engineers.

LMAO, if you want to talk about absolute ignorance, look in the mirror

 

[Ackmed]

Whatever, If Trump Trash wants to deport people picking our food, they better get out there, bend over, take a nice breath of pesticides, and start picking.

Have you even looked at Obamas deportation numbers? Where were you then? People here illegally shouldn't just be allowed to stay forever with no consequences. But good side step on the point I made of someone being uppity, and you didn't call them on it.

Whatever, If Trump Trash wants to deport people picking our food, they better get out there, bend over, take a nice breath of pesticides, and start picking.

Engineering is a mostly left leaning occupation.

http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/index.html

Of all the engineering professions, software engineering is the MOST left leaning out of all engineers.

LMAO, if you want to talk about absolute ignorance, look in the mirror

Engineers leaning left wasn't even the main point I was making, just showing how your ignorant blanket statements are silly. There are also very many different kind of engineers. The fact remains that where people live plays a huge part in which way the lean. Oh, but I am being ignorant? The main point was your calling a very large portion of Americans too stupid to do anything intelligent. Your name calling and elitist attitude towards a lot of people is one of the problems with America today, especially in regards to this election. As I said, keep it up if you want him reelected or someone worse.

Also, a short Google search showed several links that claim most engineers are Repub or conservative. But again, that wasn't even the main point.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You've been claiming all these illegals and browns are criminals, which doesn't exactly logically square with your theory about immigrants only moving into good neighborhoods making them even better. So where so the majority hispanics perps go? I tried to help out and at least make your theory quantitatively sound, but evidently you were having none of that.

Not all of them. Any South American that immigrates here the traditional route is likely to be among the most talented/skilled of their home country. That isn't to say that the average Mexican immigrant wanting to escape Mexico and do agriculture or basic service work is more dangerous than the average American, but this study isn't remotely powerful enough to make a claim about that.

fwiw I think the biggest driver behind Hispanic crime is the war on drugs to begin with. Mexican crime has exploded since the 80s, and Hispanic crime within our country is on a similar decline to that of white crime. Decriminalize/legalize cocaine, heroin, and meth, and Latin America in general will probably approach the USA's crime levels within a couple generations.

 

[Chiropteran]

Not building that wall worked out just awesome for the native Americans.

 

[Phokus]

Engineers leaning left wasn't even the main point I was making, just showing how your ignorant blanket statements are silly. There are also very many different kind of engineers. The fact remains that where people live plays a huge part in which way the lean. Oh, but I am being ignorant? The main point was your calling a very large portion of Americans too stupid to do anything intelligent. Your name calling and elitist attitude towards a lot of people is one of the problems with America today, especially in regards to this election. As I said, keep it up if you want him reelected or someone worse.

Also, a short Google search showed several links that claim most engineers are Repub or conservative. But again, that wasn't even the main point.

And yet, you don't post those results, odd! Let me guess, townhall.com? Breitbart? Infowars? The overwhelming majority of engineers are democrats, even moreso software engineers, get over it.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Not building that wall worked out just awesome for the native Americans.

They should deport us!

 

[werepossum]

Get your lazy butt into the fields and start picking my strawberries. Nice and early. I'll even pay a little more if it says, picked by uppity Trump supporters bent over for 12 hours a day.

Lots of us have picked strawberries in our day. Also tomatoes, squash, corn, etc. There are no jobs Americans won't do, there are only jobs Americans won't do at the rate resource owners would like to pay. That's the beauty of the free market - commerce and employment only happen when both parties agree on a rate or price.