US just canceled UN vote, Bush to address nation at 8PM tonight

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: NFS4
Hopefully, the American people will remember this when it comes election time.

I know I will. Which is why I will vote for W again.

me too... he stuck to his word.. didnt let politics interfere with what he thinks is the best interest for his country....

Best interests for his country? What the F*&K is Saddam gonna do to us half way across the globe and with short range missles? Saddam may be an evil bastard, but he ain't no Bin Laden.

Don't be so naive. You think Bin Laden has more resources than Saddam? You think Saddam wouldn't use Bin Laden for their same common goal? COME ON! :frown:

I don't think he would before now. Saddam had no reason to f*&k with us for the past 12 years. Now we go f**king around with him.

I look at Saddam as being a bee hive. Deadly, but self contained in his own space. As soon as you start poking at him, that's when all hell breaks loose and you get stung.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: NFS4
Hopefully, the American people will remember this when it comes election time.

I know I will. Which is why I will vote for W again.

me too... he stuck to his word.. didnt let politics interfere with what he thinks is the best interest for his country....

Best interests for his country? What the F*&K is Saddam gonna do to us half way across the globe and with short range missles? Saddam may be an evil bastard, but he ain't no Bin Laden.

Don't be so naive. You think Bin Laden has more resources than Saddam? You think Saddam wouldn't use Bin Laden for their same common goal? COME ON! :frown:

I don't think he would before now. Saddam had no reason to f*&k with us for the past 12 years. Now we go f**king around with him.

I look at Saddam as being a bee hive. Deadly, but self contained in his own space. As soon as you start poking at him, that's when all hell breaks loose and you get stung.

that's unlikely. Aside from a few dilapidated tanks and a couple scuds that will probably be aimed at israel, the only real threat iraq poses is in urban conflict. That's when the sh*t gets bloody. Expect lots of dead civilians and military casualties.

 

[freegeeks]

Don't be so naive. You think Bin Laden has more resources than Saddam? You think Saddam wouldn't use Bin Laden for their same common goal? COME ON!

Bin Laden hates Saddam because he is not a fundamentalist and Saddam hates Bin Laden because he IS a fundy. It's not a secret that their ideological differences are to great. They hate each other guts.

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

And again I have to say this resolution 1441 did NOT authorize war

1441 said that Iraq had to meet all requirements of previous resolutions and if not they will be forced by all necessary means.. it calls for the UN to convene immediately if Iraq does not fully comply with all the requirements set forth.. it also says that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations and that this is a final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations....
so i do agree that it is up to the UN to disarm Iraq.. but if they're not doing it, the military force of the UN (US) is going to do it anyways....
final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations or what? or we'll give you another final opportunity??.. thats basically what much of the international community is asking for... another chance for Iraq to comply.. I say, how many chances do they get? If that were the case it would still render the UN weak and useless because they threatened in the resolution, approved by the security council, serious consequences... if serious consequences means another 45 days to comply then who's going to follow the UN's resolutions? screw that... the US is putting its money where the UN's mouth is and im all for it...

 

[AU Tiger]

Finally the dilly-dallying is over. The UN Security Council has proven its uselessness for what I hope is the last time. They have been inspecting since November with little accomplished, and this hope that continued inspections will change things is ridiculous.

What will be interesting is to see what France, Russia, and Germany do in response as far as UN goes. Maybe a resolution condemning the United States?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

And again I have to say this resolution 1441 did NOT authorize war

1441 said that Iraq had to meet all requirements of previous resolutions and if not they will be forced by all necessary means.. it calls for the UN to convene immediately if Iraq does not fully comply with all the requirements set forth.. it also says that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations and that this is a final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations....
so i do agree that it is up to the UN to disarm Iraq.. but if they're not doing it, the military force of the UN (US) is going to do it anyways....
final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations or what? or we'll give you another final opportunity??.. thats basically what much of the international community is asking for... another chance for Iraq to comply.. I say, how many chances do they get? If that were the case it would still render the UN weak and useless because they threatened in the resolution, approved by the security council, serious consequences... if serious consequences means another 45 days to comply then who's going to follow the UN's resolutions? screw that... the US is putting its money where the UN's mouth is and im all for it...

it was not 1441 that said "all necessary means" it was 1300 something if I remember correctly, think we read the same article

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: NightTrain

Originally posted by: NFS4
Hopefully, the American people will remember this when it comes election time.

Be careful what you wish for.

Too bad, one of the very few honest people in DC.

 

[Grey]

A few short range missles and a few antique tanks? You guys seem to be forgetting the tons of nerve gasses and unaccounted for anthrax. And Saddam views himself as the Sultan who will reunite the Middle eastern peninsula under one banner, Iraqs ofcourse.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

And again I have to say this resolution 1441 did NOT authorize war

1441 said that Iraq had to meet all requirements of previous resolutions and if not they will be forced by all necessary means.. it calls for the UN to convene immediately if Iraq does not fully comply with all the requirements set forth.. it also says that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations and that this is a final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations....
so i do agree that it is up to the UN to disarm Iraq.. but if they're not doing it, the military force of the UN (US) is going to do it anyways....
final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations or what? or we'll give you another final opportunity??.. thats basically what much of the international community is asking for... another chance for Iraq to comply.. I say, how many chances do they get? If that were the case it would still render the UN weak and useless because they threatened in the resolution, approved by the security council, serious consequences... if serious consequences means another 45 days to comply then who's going to follow the UN's resolutions? screw that... the US is putting its money where the UN's mouth is and im all for it...

This is not a good argument. The US hasn't bombed israel lately, despite the fact the israel has not complied to a number of UN resolutions. The bottom line is that this isn't an act of altrusim. Bush will have a war, and that's that. As stated earlier, delegitamizing the UN (as Bush indicates the war will) will undermine the international rule of law which healthy trade and economic relations are predicated on.

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

And again I have to say this resolution 1441 did NOT authorize war

1441 said that Iraq had to meet all requirements of previous resolutions and if not they will be forced by all necessary means.. it calls for the UN to convene immediately if Iraq does not fully comply with all the requirements set forth.. it also says that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations and that this is a final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations....
so i do agree that it is up to the UN to disarm Iraq.. but if they're not doing it, the military force of the UN (US) is going to do it anyways....
final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations or what? or we'll give you another final opportunity??.. thats basically what much of the international community is asking for... another chance for Iraq to comply.. I say, how many chances do they get? If that were the case it would still render the UN weak and useless because they threatened in the resolution, approved by the security council, serious consequences... if serious consequences means another 45 days to comply then who's going to follow the UN's resolutions? screw that... the US is putting its money where the UN's mouth is and im all for it...

it was not 1441 that said "all necessary means" it was 1300 something if I remember correctly, think we read the same article

yeah but didnt 1441 include all previous resolutions?

 

[Grey]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: NightTrain

Originally posted by: NFS4
Hopefully, the American people will remember this when it comes election time.

Be careful what you wish for.

Too bad, one of the very few honest people in DC.

Anti-american and anti-jewish, whoa want to kick some puppies and kittens? Maybe more people will agree with you Hagbard.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

And again I have to say this resolution 1441 did NOT authorize war

1441 said that Iraq had to meet all requirements of previous resolutions and if not they will be forced by all necessary means.. it calls for the UN to convene immediately if Iraq does not fully comply with all the requirements set forth.. it also says that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations and that this is a final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations....
so i do agree that it is up to the UN to disarm Iraq.. but if they're not doing it, the military force of the UN (US) is going to do it anyways....
final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations or what? or we'll give you another final opportunity??.. thats basically what much of the international community is asking for... another chance for Iraq to comply.. I say, how many chances do they get? If that were the case it would still render the UN weak and useless because they threatened in the resolution, approved by the security council, serious consequences... if serious consequences means another 45 days to comply then who's going to follow the UN's resolutions? screw that... the US is putting its money where the UN's mouth is and im all for it...

it was not 1441 that said "all necessary means" it was 1300 something if I remember correctly, think we read the same article

yeah but didnt 1441 include all previous resolutions?

it was 1300 something resolution that stated all resolutions after that or something, but I dont remember it exactly
do you remember where that article was?

if this would have been the case the US had presented from the start it would have much more support than they do now after jumping from reason to reason

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: isaacmacdonald

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

And again I have to say this resolution 1441 did NOT authorize war

1441 said that Iraq had to meet all requirements of previous resolutions and if not they will be forced by all necessary means.. it calls for the UN to convene immediately if Iraq does not fully comply with all the requirements set forth.. it also says that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations and that this is a final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations....
so i do agree that it is up to the UN to disarm Iraq.. but if they're not doing it, the military force of the UN (US) is going to do it anyways....
final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations or what? or we'll give you another final opportunity??.. thats basically what much of the international community is asking for... another chance for Iraq to comply.. I say, how many chances do they get? If that were the case it would still render the UN weak and useless because they threatened in the resolution, approved by the security council, serious consequences... if serious consequences means another 45 days to comply then who's going to follow the UN's resolutions? screw that... the US is putting its money where the UN's mouth is and im all for it...

This is not a good argument. The US hasn't bombed israel lately, despite the fact the israel has not complied to a number of UN resolutions. The bottom line is that this isn't an act of altrusim. Bush will have a war, and that's that. As stated earlier, delegitamizing the UN (as Bush indicates the war will) will undermine the international rule of law which healthy trade and economic relations are predicated on.

yeah but the only reason saddam is still in power is because the UN pleaded with the US back in 1992 or 91 or whenever it was to let him stay in power.. they said "we will impose resolutions on him, and if he breaks them then we'll take action." the big difference between iraq and israel is that Iraq agreed to these resolutions....

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Fencer128
Not particulary surprising - as it would not have gone through.

In the worst case scenario (for the US) not only would France and whoever else veto, but they could lose the overall count also. This would undeniably show a big "thumbs down" from the international community. They would avoid that at all costs.

Andy

No, this would have shown a big thumbs down from France and whoever else joined in (which still wouldn't have looked good anyway).

 

[Aceshigh]

I don't believe the president will be announcing the beginning of a war tonight. I do think he will give Saddam a few days to step down, or else.

Then if Saddam doesn't comply we could see the hostilities begin later this week.

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: cmdavid
please.. "france was possibly accepting another 30 days.." thats bs and you know it.. they approved the resolution back in november basically backing military action in 45 days or whatever and then turn around and threaten to veto.. Bush is a smart man for not putting up with this crap from the UN any longer..
I don't care what the world thinks about this war with Iraq, Bush has to look out for what is best for his country and his people...

And again I have to say this resolution 1441 did NOT authorize war

1441 said that Iraq had to meet all requirements of previous resolutions and if not they will be forced by all necessary means.. it calls for the UN to convene immediately if Iraq does not fully comply with all the requirements set forth.. it also says that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations and that this is a final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations....
so i do agree that it is up to the UN to disarm Iraq.. but if they're not doing it, the military force of the UN (US) is going to do it anyways....
final opportunity for Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations or what? or we'll give you another final opportunity??.. thats basically what much of the international community is asking for... another chance for Iraq to comply.. I say, how many chances do they get? If that were the case it would still render the UN weak and useless because they threatened in the resolution, approved by the security council, serious consequences... if serious consequences means another 45 days to comply then who's going to follow the UN's resolutions? screw that... the US is putting its money where the UN's mouth is and im all for it...

it was not 1441 that said "all necessary means" it was 1300 something if I remember correctly, think we read the same article

yeah but didnt 1441 include all previous resolutions?

it was 1300 something resolution that stated all resolutions after that or something, but I dont remember it exactly
do you remember where that article was?

if this would have been the case the US had presented from the start it would have much more support than they do now after jumping from reason to reason

this one?

 

[isaacmacdonald]

Originally posted by: Grey
A few short range missles and a few antique tanks? You guys seem to be forgetting the tons of nerve gasses and unaccounted for anthrax. And Saddam views himself as the Sultan who will reunite the Middle eastern peninsula under one banner, Iraqs ofcourse.

The mechanics of even short range [effective] delivery, of the kinds of nerve gasses he may have, are such that we have relatively little to fear, aside from delivery within iraq itself (on our troops). You don't just tape a canister onto a scud and launch.

Aside from this, lets not forget that even when Iraq was robust and we were actively supplying it with chemical weapons (which it was actively using in combat), it was unable to defeat Iran. Years later, with most of its conventional forces in the toilet, and inspectors up its ass, you really think think its arsenal poses a sizeable risk???

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: isaacmacdonald
It is a shame. Even France indicated a 30 day timeline would be acceptable. It seems we were near an amicable resolution, with muc more financial backing. Ahh well.

You honestly think in 30 days Saddam would have met full compliance, totally the opposite of what Saddam has been doing since we got into this mess?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Aceshigh
I don't believe the president will be announcing the beginning of a war tonight. I do think he will give Saddam a few days to step down, or else.

Then if Saddam doesn't comply we could see the hostilities begin later this week.

Colin Powell was just on TV. He said that there is nothing that Saddam can do now. Game over. All diplomatic options have been exhausted according to Powell

 

[waitman]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Grey
No, the time is past Czar, it is to late. Saddam has to be punished now. If the US waits any longer it will be 110f degrees out and the chemical suits the troops have to wear will cause to much loss of life. The US can't wait 30 days, then wait 5 months for the heat to die down and then attack it makes no logical sense.

What exactly do you want 30 additional days for? Blix has already submitted multiple "final reports' that all say we wish for more cooperation we wish they would tell us, we wish we knew where. What exactly do you think it will accomplish Jeez? Dont answer they need more time!

Sure, they need more time! They are smashing 7 obselete missles a day in a mall parking lot! They need more time!

Seven a day is a big deal, after all, they have to have time to get around all those trenches filled with oil, he he

 

[isaacmacdonald]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: isaacmacdonald
It is a shame. Even France indicated a 30 day timeline would be acceptable. It seems we were near an amicable resolution, with muc more financial backing. Ahh well.

You honestly think in 30 days Saddam would have met full compliance, totally the opposite of what Saddam has been doing since we got into this mess?

I'd give it about a 36% probability. I'm more interested in seeing the US frame its actions in a positive light (ie: with international support), reduce its financial burdens, and not aggresively challenge the UN's legitimacy (as bush has announced he will).

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: NightTrain

Originally posted by: NFS4
Hopefully, the American people will remember this when it comes election time.

Be careful what you wish for.

Too bad, one of the very few honest people in DC.

If only there were more like him, eh?

"By any standard, this Iraq war is of no benefit to the United States of America, nor is it of any benefit to the commercial oil industry. So, for whose benefit does America wage this war? The answer is Israel, Israel, Israel! Radical Jewish supremacists in Israel launched this drive for war. Their agents all over the world, both in government and media, have been the real power behind this war."

Another Perspective: No War for Israel! by David Duke

 

[rufruf44]

Godspeed for all the US, UK troops. Hopefully war will end soon with minimal casualties in this end.

 

[Morph]

Oh well, let Dubya have his fun with the wargames. I can't wait til next election when he gets the boot. He'll be a one-termer just like his daddy.

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Godspeed for all the US, UK troops. Hopefully war will end soon with minimal casualties in this end.

thats all we can really say now... once the war starts i hope that all US citizens will support our troops along with the UK troops regardless of whether you support the war or not...