US strike kills Iranian Quds Force commander

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
That is an opinion entirely favorable to Iran. The JCPOA was doomed to fail from day one because hardliners in Iran will never give up on their nuclear ambitions as a deterrent to Israel and their own regional ambitions. Iran was already starting to play games over military sites being “off limits” to inspectors.

Also, there is no logic to essentially bribing Iran to not pursue its weapons programs, so that it can free up money that they will inevitably funnel to its network of proxy terrorist allies.

Did you read where Pompeo said that Trump never threatened cultural sites? He clearly did and "important to Iranians" means targeting Iranians not just the military. Iranians won't buy that. Trump has converted countless citizens to "hard-liners" and his tacit lesson is that everyone needs to nuke up because he is the greatest threat to world peace, such as it is.

If I were the leader of any nation with the financial resources I'd be seeking hypersonic weapon and nuclear technology as a madman with millions of mad people threaten everyone. Even if Trump is evicted in November this is an important and lasting truth.

This is a new meta-war that can materialize on a whim.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
In a huge shock the Trump admin assessed that the ill conceived "maximum pressure" campaign against Iran's economy backfired wrt curbing Iran's regional aggression. So the plan to kill Soleimani was hatched and there seemingly is not a single iota of confidence about what comes next strategically for the US.

Team Trump Thought It Could Contain Iran With ‘Maximum Pressure.’ The Attacks Got Worse.

Things were never expected to get to this point. Part of the implied goal of an American policy known as “maximum pressure,” with its crushing sanctions on the Iranian economy, was to force Tehran to scale back its aggression. While the Trump administration never specifically stated that the campaign aimed to curtail Iran’s military stance toward the U.S. and its allies, American officials told The Daily Beast that the White House hoped it could gain enough leverage with sanctions to deter Tehran’s military aggression. The attack that killed the contractor, the move toward U.S. bases, these were signs Iran was getting more aggressive, not less.

The president wasn’t alone in his decision to strike Soleimani. Officials across the three agencies had for months discussed Iran’s threat against the U.S. and determined that the maximum pressure campaign had not changed Tehran’s behavior, at least not militarily, according to the two U.S. officials and three other individuals with knowledge of the administration's decision-making regarding Iran. It had only bolstered Iran’s adversarial posture toward American assets in the Middle East and elsewhere throughout the world, those sources said. Behind closed doors, many U.S. officials began to question the efficacy of maximum pressure, while others pushed the president privately to go after a high-profile Iranian target.

In recent months, it became clear to those at the State Department and within the broader national security community that Iran had grown more emboldened on the battlefield and that the maximum pressure campaign had not deterred Tehran militarily. Iranian-backed militias were launching rockets closer to American infrastructure in Iraq and further bolstering their support for rebels in Yemen.

Virtually no one expects Iran to suddenly buckle with Soleimani’s death. If anything, the expectation is that Tehran will retaliate—and that America will respond with additional force, both economic and military. In that way, some version of maximum pressure may even grow more intense.

“I’m not sure anyone really knew what the endgame was supposed to be. The purpose of sanctions and coercive authority is to cause a change in behavior or policy outcomes with respect to the folks in Tehran. If it’s not regime change, it’s not entirely clear how this works,” said one former Obama official who worked on Iran policy. “The reality is that it’s working, tactically, from an economic perspective. But the maximum pressure campaign clearly hasn’t demonstrated enough strength to determine Iran’s activity in the neighborhood.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/team-...n-with-maximum-pressure-the-attacks-got-worse
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,685
7,186
136
From the mind of Trump: "You know if Obama did something about this I never would have had to deal with this shit. It makes me look bad that I had to undo what he and our supposed allies did with this Iran nuke problem and so I riffed it all right into a major escalating crisis because Obama did it all wrong and I had to try to fix it like I did with the Kurds and yeah so what if I'm also doing this to get reelected, Obama would've done the same thing like I predicted years ago."

This is what our titular head of state's twisted defective logic is having us go through. This is what his supporters are cheering him on about. This is what they consider to be his doing a really great job of it.

This insanity all needs to be stopped dead in its tracks whether by kicking his Putin loving racist ass out of office or voting him the hell out of there before he slaughters our military in order to cover for those many major fuck-up's of his that his supporters think is just peachy keen.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
Of course, Iran could always just abandon its nuclear ambitions and give up on its stated goal to destroy the state of Israel. I suppose they could always try that, and I bet they would find numerous willing trading partners.

This was already done. It was history. Then Trump dumped on it. Bigly. Why do you ignore the most recent of history, lie the everloving fuck about it, then argue against a completely false narrative?

Iran was in process of doing what you demand that they do. It was done peacefully and was never in dispute by any non-partisan international sanctioning body. Instead, you advocate the beginning of endless wars as you defend the fucking traitor in the whitehouse because for some reason, all at once, you've decided that Iran never were doing these things that they very plainly were doing. Why?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
That is an opinion entirely favorable to Iran. The JCPOA was doomed to fail from day one because hardliners in Iran will never give up on their nuclear ambitions as a deterrent to Israel and their own regional ambitions. Iran was already starting to play games over military sites being “off limits” to inspectors.

Also, there is no logic to essentially bribing Iran to not pursue its weapons programs, so that it can free up money that they will inevitably funnel to its network of proxy terrorist allies.

It is not an opinion. It is a determination based on the facts on the ground and the institution set to confirm the results.

You are lying and you fucking know it.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
136
This was already done. It was history. Then Trump dumped on it. Bigly. Why do you ignore the most recent of history, lie the everloving fuck about it, then argue against a completely false narrative?

If their brains weren't scrambled mush, they wouldn't be Republicans.
 
Reactions: Meghan54

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
Prior to JCPOA there really was no clear evidence that Iran had any active plans to develop a nuclear warhead.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That is an opinion entirely favorable to Iran. The JCPOA was doomed to fail from day one because hardliners in Iran will never give up on their nuclear ambitions as a deterrent to Israel and their own regional ambitions. Iran was already starting to play games over military sites being “off limits” to inspectors.

Also, there is no logic to essentially bribing Iran to not pursue its weapons programs, so that it can free up money that they will inevitably funnel to its network of proxy terrorist allies.

It is entirely favorable to Iran, no doubt, because they verifiably honored their obligations. No HEU, no nuclear weapons. The rest of what you offer is just the usual innuendo reminiscent of the GWB era. Your last sentence suggests that nuclear weapons proliferation is preferable to sane alternatives, which isn't sane at all.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
136
Prior to JCPOA there really was no clear evidence that Iran had any active plans to develop a nuclear warhead.

Trump and Republican aggression is a VERY strong reason for everyone to start nuclear development. Gotta get that shield before the United States invades.

If they weren't going to complete it before, you can bet Iran is already guaranteed to do so now.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
We have that now. It's called the United States

Right - exactly.

That's why Trump (and our senior military officials in general) are incredibly religious, attends mass daily, and would definitely be on the front lines yelling ALLAHU ACKBAR!

Remind me again, which war did Trump sign up for the draft immediately?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Right - exactly.

That's why Trump (and our senior military officials in general) are incredibly religious, attends mass daily, and would definitely be on the front lines yelling ALLAHU ACKBAR!

Remind me again, which war did Trump sign up for the draft immediately?
You mean the guy who had no qualms murdering someone on 5th ave, asked 3 times in a meeting why we can't use nukes and is surrounded by religious nuts isn't capable??

GTFOH
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
Our own intelligence agencies in an open hearing confirmed Iran was in compliance with the JCPOA

Yes this is true. There is concern that the JCPOA is not strong enough to detect pursuit of weapons, but realistically enriching to the point of bomb-grade material is hard to do in secret in an open country, and that's only one facet of a deployable nuclear arsenal. Dirty bombs is another story.

My point was, by the time of JCPOA Iran had already moved away to anyone's knowledge of an active pursuit of nuclear arms. The agreement was still important to provide a framework for international oversight and a reason to ease sanctions and facilitate Iran westernizing.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
What part of Iran verifiably setting aside their nuclear ambitions for the JCPOA do you refuse to comprehend? Religious fucktards? Like these?



They may be right that God sent Trump to be President, but only because he ran out of locusts.

And..not to mention Pence and Pompeo are End Times Apocalypse enthusiasts. Biblically speaking to a subset of Christians, Trump truly is the Antichrist, or (my favorite) the Abomination of Desolation. Which would mean we are in the Great Tribulation preceding the Second Coming.



How much easier that task would be if the head of the Justice Department - who has all the resources of the FBI at his disposal - were, likewise, a religious fanatic...

William Barr Is Neck-Deep in Extremist Catholic Institutions
His troubles don’t only involve his obeisance to Donald Trump. He’s a paranoid right-wing Catholic ideologue who won’t respect the separation of church and state.

https://www.thenation.com/article/william-barr-notre-dame-secularism/

William P. Barr, President Donald Trump’s nominee to be U.S. attorney general, is no fan of secular government, public schools, church-state separation – or much of modern life, for that matter.
Americans United began looking into Barr’s record after Trump nominated him to the top slot at the U.S. Justice Department Dec. 7. Some troubling things have emerged.


William Barr: Our Less Christian Society Is To Blame For Mental Illness And Drug Abuse
“Judeo-Christian moral standards are like God’s instruction manual for ... the best operation for human society,” said the attorney general.


Barr doesn't appear to be quite as deep into the death cult as are Pompeo and Pence, but he's clearly an ally who deeply desires the end of the separation of church and state, and of secularism in general. If you're not a Christian you are, by definition, depraved and mentally ill, according to Bill Barr.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Right - exactly.

That's why Trump (and our senior military officials in general) are incredibly religious, attends mass daily, and would definitely be on the front lines yelling ALLAHU ACKBAR!

Remind me again, which war did Trump sign up for the draft immediately?

You know what he's talking about. It's that the Republicans and the Trump administration are frequently under the sway of religious conservatives (including Pence and Pompeo) whose choices often boil down to "how can we hurt more people?" And while Trump may be non-religious, he exploits the gullibility of American evangelicals to his advantage.
 
Reactions: Meghan54

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
Mar-a-Lago Guests and Israel Had More Prior Knowledge of Strike on Soleimani Than Democratic Leaders

Trump was dropping hints to guests at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida days before the attack, telling them to expect something “big” very “soon” in Iraq

Either Trump was doing this because he's a blithering idiot, or, was he trying to tell his Mar-a-Lago members to buy defense contractor stock. Or both

Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, and General Dynamics stock all went up to varying degrees after the strike
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,012
2,284
136
It is not an opinion. It is a determination based on the facts on the ground and the institution set to confirm the results.

You are lying and you fucking know it.
Not lying. Just misinformed. Lots of right wing pro-Israel new sources (incl FOX) that badly malign reality to push skewed propagandistic narratives that targets people who are not well informed about the world or international affairs. Thats about half the US population and Trumps power base.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,012
2,284
136

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
You know what he's talking about. It's that the Republicans and the Trump administration are frequently under the sway of religious conservatives (including Pence and Pompeo) whose choices often boil down to "how can we hurt more people?" And while Trump may be non-religious, he exploits the gullibility of American evangelicals to his advantage.

Here's the problem with trying to second guess the Second Coming.

Mathew 24:36-39: - But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,[a] but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

And I looked and yet another horseman, though he was riding an elephant. And he was orange of flesh, with a punchable face, and his hair was not his hair but the scat of worms. And a sharpie was in his his hand, and he spoke with the voice of an angry toddler saying, "Worship me, for no greater man has ever lived. Bow down before me. Look upon my works, ye of the mighty, and of the despair!"

And despair raced over the land, for he was a lying, incompetent fuck. Even his servants were getting sick of his shit.

And the people wailed onto the Lord that the world must end by such an unworthy one.

And the Lord said to them, "Even as a serpent brought sin into the world, so a shit-spewing snake must take it out."

And the Lord laughed His Ass off as the people wept. Blessed be the Ass of the Lord.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136

You can say that again! It's just amazing how much shit a president can screw up by giving the NSC, Pentagon and State just a few days to prepare (though, Pompeo was supposedly pushing for this strike and should have been prepared).

Oh, an not consulting allies - especially Iraq when the assassination will occur in their OWN country. Let loose the dogs of war incompetence!
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Here's the problem with trying to second guess the Second Coming.

Mathew 24:36-39: - But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,[a] but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Yes, definitely a problem evangelicals seem to miss. I just don't get it. I'm a catholic and I don't really want the apocalypse happening in MY time (not that I have a choice).
And, somehow, by creating the right conditions in the middle east, we are going to force the hand of God - seriously. This is just the craziest theology ever.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Yes, definitely a problem evangelicals seem to miss. I just don't get it. I'm a catholic and I don't really want the apocalypse happening in MY time (not that I have a choice).
And, somehow, by creating the right conditions in the middle east, we are going to force the hand of God - seriously. This is just the craziest theology ever.

Oh its gonna happen. Its just gonna be man made with everyone worshiping the god of chrome afterword.
 
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