US strike kills Iranian Quds Force commander

[VRAMdemon]

Rand Paul says the murder was a bad idea

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...-on-killing-of

He also exemplifies a confusing mindset common to many Americans of late:

"You would have to be brain dead to believe that we tear up the agreement, we put an embargo on you and we kill your major general, and they're just going to crawl back to the table and say, 'What do you want, America?'" he said.

He added that even though “nothing justifies their military action,” it would be “predictable.”

He lists three major factors behind Iran's current position, but then piously declares "nothing justifies their military action". Except if anyone had tried to do even a portion of that to the US, there'd be no doubt that the Americans would consider military force justified.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Rand Paul says the murder was a bad idea

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...-on-killing-of

He also exemplifies a confusing mindset common to many Americans of late:



He lists three major factors behind Iran's current position, but then piously declares "nothing justifies their military action". Except if anyone had tried to do even a portion of that to the US, there'd be no doubt that the Americans would consider military force justified.

Indeed they did.

Public opinion in the United States on the invasion of Iraq - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47–60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval.

And they weren't even the ones that attacked us!

 

[Starbuck1975]

Since it's just a matter of better messaging, please explain:

- the strategic advantage we've gained

We took a major adversary off the board with minimal effort and no collateral damage to civilians

- the risk calculation, and how the benefits outweighed the considered risks of escalated conflict

The risk calculation is that Iran’s response remains limited to what they’re already doing anyway.

how he was a vital, imminent threat to AMERICAN interests. Not Saudi, not Israeli, not Yemeni, not Syrian.

Those things are intertwined. Our interest is to not have one dominant Islamic fundamenalist regime able to theaten our allies in the region, as imperfect as those alliances may be.

how this all aligns with Trump's "America First" doctrine, and avoiding "stupid" foreign wars

It doesn’t. This is the Pompeo show.

Just saying "well, he was a bad guy" doesn't work. He was also a bad guy who was critical to defeating ISIS.

And Stalin was a bad guy critical to defeating Hitler. The enemy of my enemy can also be my enemy.

Lots of bad guys in the world. Doesn't make it our problem.

Agreed, but the Middle East is our problem.

 

[dainthomas]

Here's the problem with trying to second guess the Second Coming.



And I looked and yet another horseman, though he was riding an elephant. And he was orange of flesh, with a punchable face, and his hair was not his hair but the scat of worms. And a sharpie was in his his hand, and he spoke with the voice of an angry toddler saying, "Worship me, for no greater man has ever lived. Bow down before me. Look upon my works, ye of the mighty, and of the despair!"

And despair raced over the land, for he was a lying, incompetent fuck. Even his servants were getting sick of his shit.

And the people wailed onto the Lord that the world must end by such an unworthy one.

And the Lord said to them, "Even as a serpent brought sin into the world, so a shit-spewing snake must take it out."

And the Lord laughed His Ass off as the people wept. Blessed be the Ass of the Lord.

Gold.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

We took a major adversary off the board with minimal effort and no collateral damage to civilians

I'll note that you failed to include the five strategic partner officials we killed.

 

[ShookKnight]

Quite the weekend!

Trump announces he will commit war crimes by targeting Iranian civilians. Hezbollah, a terrorist organization, states they will not target American civilians. Just think about that...

Pompeno and Pence have painted the dead Iranian general as some mastermind Osama Bin Laden type of international terrorist. Why, our entire galaxy fears this monster!!

Trump Jr. posts on twitter wielding a rifle called Crusader with a Jerusalem cross. Yeah, Trump is totally not interested in starting a war in the Middle East.

Oh, hey, what's this... Epstien pics were released as well. Gee, I wonder how Trump starting a war with Iran was a distraction caused by Hillary Clinton to cover up Epstein's murder?

And, we are withdrawing from Iraq... NOPE... PSYCH!!

What a fucking shit show. A complete and utter shit show.

Sad!!

 

[dainthomas]

Quite the weekend!

Trump announces he will commit war crimes by targeting Iranian civilians. Hezbollah, a terrorist organization, states they will not target American civilians. Just think about that...

Pompeno and Pence have painted the dead Iranian general as some mastermind Osama Bin Laden type of international terrorist. Why, our entire galaxy fears this monster!!

Trump Jr. posts on twitter wielding a rifle called Crusader with a Jerusalem cross. Yeah, Trump is totally not interested in starting a war in the Middle East.

Oh, hey, what's this... Epstien pics were released as well. Gee, I wonder how Trump starting a war with Iran was a distraction caused by Hillary Clinton to cover up Epstein's murder?

And, we are withdrawing from Iraq... NOPE... PSYCH!!

What a fucking shit show. A complete and utter shit show.

Sad!!

About the result you'd expect from making a senile game show host president.

 

[Jhhnn]

You can say that again! It's just amazing how much shit a president can screw up by giving the NSC, Pentagon and State just a few days to prepare (though, Pompeo was supposedly pushing for this strike and should have been prepared).

Oh, an not consulting allies - especially Iraq when the assassination will occur in their OWN country. Let loose the dogs of war incompetence!

I's worse than that. The attacks on Iraqi state militias & their honored guest, Soliemani, are attacks against the govt of Iraq itself. Aren't we supposed to be partners? Is their sovereignty something we can just piss on whenever we feel like it?

We have forced them into the position where they must put us out. It's their only chance to achieve any kind of domestic tranquility. Their people demand it.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'll note that you failed to include the five strategic partner officials we killed.

You mean we're treacherously attacking the govt we're supposedly there to support? And putting enough spin on it that the American public is buying into it? It's a test. I mean, how stupid are we?

 

[Starbuck1975]

It is not an opinion. It is a determination based on the facts on the ground and the institution set to confirm the results.

You are lying and you fucking know it.

I expessed an opinion based on observable fact. How can they confirm results if denied access to certain sites or fail to accurately disclose information requested by the IAEA? It’s the same BS cat and mouse game that dooms all of these international efforts to failure.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I expessed an opinion based on observable fact. How can they confirm results if denied access to certain sites or fail to accurately disclose information requested by the IAEA? It’s the same BS cat and mouse game that dooms all of these international efforts to failure.

Really? It seemed to be working pretty well until we bombed them. Make sure to let that soak in. The agreement didn't doom the international effort to failure, launching a fucking missile at them did.

 

[BoomerD]

Quite the weekend!

Trump announces he will commit war crimes by targeting Iranian civilians. Hezbollah, a terrorist organization, states they will not target American civilians. Just think about that...

Pompeno and Pence have painted the dead Iranian general as some mastermind Osama Bin Laden type of international terrorist. Why, our entire galaxy fears this monster!!

Trump Jr. posts on twitter wielding a rifle called Crusader with a Jerusalem cross. Yeah, Trump is totally not interested in starting a war in the Middle East.

Oh, hey, what's this... Epstien pics were released as well. Gee, I wonder how Trump starting a war with Iran was a distraction caused by Hillary Clinton to cover up Epstein's murder?

And, we are withdrawing from Iraq... NOPE... PSYCH!!

What a fucking shit show. A complete and utter shit show.

Sad!!

Maybe we should drop Donny Jr. and his boomstick into the heart of Tehran. He could single-handedly end the Iranian problem for is...and become King Donnie's VP for the 2020 election...setting him up to be King Donnie The Second!

 

[Jhhnn]

I expessed an opinion based on observable fact. How can they confirm results if denied access to certain sites or fail to accurately disclose information requested by the IAEA? It’s the same BS cat and mouse game that dooms all of these international efforts to failure.

That's bullshit. If the IAEA were not satisfied that Iran was in compliance with the JCPOA they'd have been screaming from the rooftops. I'm confident they know a helluva lot more about what they're doing than either of us. The agreement was a new beginning. The past was set aside.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

That's bullshit. If the IAEA were not satisfied that Iran was in compliance with the JCPOA they'd have been screaming from the rooftops. I'm confident they know a helluva lot more about what they're doing than either of us. The agreement was a new beginning. The past was set aside.

Hey now, don't let all those facts get in the way of a good self-fulfilling prophecy. We've got a military-industrial complex to support, and peace is degrading our bottom-line.

 

[K1052]

Canadians troops in Iraq moving to Kuwait and the Germans reducing their troop level. Really looking like a defacto pull out at this point.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Good news. Esper says they are seeking a dimplomatic solution with Iran. This is after, of course, they killed Soleimani who was reportedly on a diplomatic mission according to the Iraqi PM. The US denies he was on a diplomatic mission because, well, trust Pompeo.

 

[Jhhnn]

The whole thing is trumped up bullshit like the Tonkin Gulf incident long ago & the rationale to invade Iraq in 2003. Preposterous & impudent lies, and plenty of them. It's all straight out of the Nazi propaganda playbook.

 

[zinfamous]

I expessed an opinion based on observable fact. How can they confirm results if denied access to certain sites or fail to accurately disclose information requested by the IAEA? It’s the same BS cat and mouse game that dooms all of these international efforts to failure.

This never happened, according to the IAEA.

 

[hal2kilo]

This never happened, according to the IAEA.

That just don't feel right.

 

[cytg111]

Which of my points is incorrect. Show your work.

I fail to see a single point? You made any? You asserted Trump should be #winning the narrative... I guess you the pr genius that GOP TV needs to sell this one, you should apply. Not even comparable but lets anyway, since I heard on GOP TV “this is bigger than bin laden”, Obama didnt have to declare war to get his man.
Trump declared war.
You state here that Trump should be winning the narrative on a war on Iran AFTER the fact... And no twin towers in its wake either.
Starbucky : for war on Iran. get some.
There be some super bad dudes all over the planet... guess you want war on the planet too then?

 

[cytg111]

I expessed an opinion based on observable fact. How can they confirm results if denied access to certain sites or fail to accurately disclose information requested by the IAEA? It’s the same BS cat and mouse game that dooms all of these international efforts to failure.

No more GOP TV for you.

cat mouse doom failure always
thus
skip cat mouse
goto war
program bucky end.

 

[Jhhnn]

This never happened, according to the IAEA.

There was some of it prior to the JCPOA. It wasn't about production of fissionable materials but about forbidden research into the means to make nuclear weapons work. They already figured it out long before the agreement & apparently have not expanded on that work. That was understood at the time.

 

[JSt0rm]

We took a major adversary off the board with minimal effort and no collateral damage to civilians

The risk calculation is that Iran’s response remains limited to what they’re already doing anyway.

Those things are intertwined. Our interest is to not have one dominant Islamic fundamenalist regime able to theaten our allies in the region, as imperfect as those alliances may be.

It doesn’t. This is the Pompeo show.

And Stalin was a bad guy critical to defeating Hitler. The enemy of my enemy can also be my enemy.

Agreed, but the Middle East is our problem.

will you ever admit you were wrong? We will commend you for it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I just want to remind people the cost of these actions are astronomical
I heard something on NPR about a dude who was tasked with spending 3 million per day in an area of Afghanistan that was described as the size of a typical US County. A COUNTY.
All while there appears to be zero money during the meltdown for jobs programs or mortgage assistance.
Imagine the good that could be done in you County if it had 3 million dollars per day dedicated to be spent on improvements for let’s say one year.
Does any believe action in Iran would be cheaper than Afghanistan? The 3 million per day figure is just improvements, that is not inclusive of the security budget. Security was a totally separate thing.

The Annual Cost Of The War In Afghanistan Since 2001 [Infographic]

With 2019 estimates factored in, the war in Afghanistan has now cost the United States $975 billion.

www.google.com

 

[Ajay]

I's worse than that. The attacks on Iraqi state militias & their honored guest, Soliemani, are attacks against the govt of Iraq itself. Aren't we supposed to be partners? Is their sovereignty something we can just piss on whenever we feel like it?

We have forced them into the position where they must put us out. It's their only chance to achieve any kind of domestic tranquility. Their people demand it.

Yes, we have forced their hands. I'm a little conflicted about it though. On the one hand, this gets us out (the stupid way) and I'm glad for that. On the other hand, we won't have assets in place to put a check on ISIS (although, we let the militia do most of the heavy lifting there) and we really sour the relationship we had with the Iraqi government. Iran is going to become a bigger player in Iraq, and that's not favorable to U.S. interests.