US to China: Why do you need a military?

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Yahoo News: Rumsfeld urges China to come clean on military spending

"In life you can't have it both ways," Rumsfeld said.

"You can't be successful economically and engage the rest of the world, and have people milling around your country and selling things and buying things and engaging in exchanges, and have them at the same time worried or wondering about some mystery that they see as behavior that is unsettling," he said.

Oh yeah, it would be completely unresponsible for an economic super power to go around starting wars or something like that.

He suggested, however, that Al-Qaeda has been "enormously successful" in manipulating a free press to spread disinformation and weaken the will of its opponents.

Damn that free press, printing all that Al-Qaeda propaganda. For that matter, aren't the US and Israel the only countries "at war" with Al-Qaeda right now? Damn the press for convincing us not to have a full scale war with no regards for the cost in human life, they've broken America's back.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
why do people listen to Rumsfeld anyway. i wish he would just go away.
 

will889

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2003
1,463
5
81
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I always find it funny when US officials question Chinese military expenditures.

Me too and i'm consevative, but not in any way that his movement is (PNAC).
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I can forgive Rumsfeld for his very ironic views on the Chinese military...but his views on a free press, and the views that seem to be shared by the administration as a whole and a large majority of their supporters, are something else. I've found the quickest way to figure out the worth of an individual's views on freedom and democracy is to find out their opinion of the press. If they respond with anything that sounds even a little bit like what Rumsfeld said, I feel I can pretty much ignore anything else they have to say on those two topics, as it's pretty clear at that point that they don't really understand the concept.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I can forgive Rumsfeld for his very ironic views on the Chinese military...but his views on a free press, and the views that seem to be shared by the administration as a whole and a large majority of their supporters, are something else. I've found the quickest way to figure out the worth of an individual's views on freedom and democracy is to find out their opinion of the press. If they respond with anything that sounds even a little bit like what Rumsfeld said, I feel I can pretty much ignore anything else they have to say on those two topics, as it's pretty clear at that point that they don't really understand the concept.

Does the press get paid to disseminate their opinion/views, and to present their view of factual information, or do they do it for some greater good?
The quickest way is not always the correct way, and in this instance, totally absent of a reasonable thought process.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I can forgive Rumsfeld for his very ironic views on the Chinese military...but his views on a free press, and the views that seem to be shared by the administration as a whole and a large majority of their supporters, are something else. I've found the quickest way to figure out the worth of an individual's views on freedom and democracy is to find out their opinion of the press. If they respond with anything that sounds even a little bit like what Rumsfeld said, I feel I can pretty much ignore anything else they have to say on those two topics, as it's pretty clear at that point that they don't really understand the concept.

Does the press get paid to disseminate their opinion/views, and to present their view of factual information, or do they do it for some greater good?
The quickest way is not always the correct way, and in this instance, totally absent of a reasonable thought process.

I don't know if you can lump the entire press into one catagory, one way or the other, but the journalists I've met really seem to believe in the concept of free press and the peoples' right to know as being the foundation of a good democracy. There are certainly better ways to make money if that's the only reason they were doing it...

Speaking of a reasonable thought process, I've actually thought about the press a lot, and the role they play in our system, and as far as I can see, it pretty much comes down to this. Our press isn't perfect, often they are quite flawed, but the alternatives are much, MUCH worse.

Based on your rather cryptic post, and everything else you've posted, I'm guessing your one of those people who thinks that the press really needs to "get behind" Bush and Co and their fight against terrorism. They need to make sure to only report pro-US news, especially about Iraq, and they need to stop giving a forum for people leaking things about intelligence and police activities, no matter what those activities are. And in conservative land, those things won't damage the role a free press plays in society.

But here's the thing, and there is really no getting around it, either you have a free press or you don't. If the press is subordinate to the government's war effort, then they aren't free in any sense of the word. This doesn't mean they shouldn't use some common sense as to balancing news with harm to the country, but it needs to be THEIR common sense. If we allow the administration to silence the media by waving the flag and talking about the war on terror, how soon before that flag waving is used to hide all sorts of things...things we'd really be better off knowing about? As much as some people hate the media for revealing the various NSA operations as of late...don't they seem like the kind of issues we need to be talking about?

In the end, it comes down to this, I'd much rather deal with the problems of a media with too much freedom than a media with not enough. I realize some people don't see it this way, but I urge them to really think things through. If there is one thing all totalitarian governments in history have done, it's silencing the media. Not all of them totally call off elections, not all of them jail or kill their political opposition, not all of them disarm their citizens, but ALL of them reign in the media. There is a reason.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
136
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I always find it funny when US officials question Chinese military expenditures.

China does it to have a giant army, we do it for a vastly smaller high tech army.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Originally posted by: Fox5
Yahoo News: Rumsfeld urges China to come clean on military spending

"In life you can't have it both ways," Rumsfeld said.

"You can't be successful economically and engage the rest of the world, and have people milling around your country and selling things and buying things and engaging in exchanges, and have them at the same time worried or wondering about some mystery that they see as behavior that is unsettling," he said.

Oh yeah, it would be completely unresponsible for an economic super power to go around starting wars or something like that.

He suggested, however, that Al-Qaeda has been "enormously successful" in manipulating a free press to spread disinformation and weaken the will of its opponents.

Damn that free press, printing all that Al-Qaeda propaganda. For that matter, aren't the US and Israel the only countries "at war" with Al-Qaeda right now? Damn the press for convincing us not to have a full scale war with no regards for the cost in human life, they've broken America's back.

As usual the title was melodramatic and had nothing to do with the article!!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,722
6,201
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
It is amazing how much money man spends due to fear.

Man has no idea how deeply frightened he is. Self knowledge opens awareness to self hate, and that he hides from with profound motivation. Man fears only one thing and that's the truth of how he feels. Militarism is denial.

Humanities beautiful children will one day all be dead and the human race extinct because we would rather die than awaken. Man, asleep to his feelings, is nothing but a robotized machine a machine that cannot be reached or touched. These words mean absolutely nothing.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: Fox5
Yahoo News: Rumsfeld urges China to come clean on military spending

"In life you can't have it both ways," Rumsfeld said.

"You can't be successful economically and engage the rest of the world, and have people milling around your country and selling things and buying things and engaging in exchanges, and have them at the same time worried or wondering about some mystery that they see as behavior that is unsettling," he said.

Oh yeah, it would be completely unresponsible for an economic super power to go around starting wars or something like that.

He suggested, however, that Al-Qaeda has been "enormously successful" in manipulating a free press to spread disinformation and weaken the will of its opponents.

Damn that free press, printing all that Al-Qaeda propaganda. For that matter, aren't the US and Israel the only countries "at war" with Al-Qaeda right now? Damn the press for convincing us not to have a full scale war with no regards for the cost in human life, they've broken America's back.

As usual the title was melodramatic and had nothing to do with the article!!

It's the logical extreme, meant to draw attention to how ridiculous Rumfeld's complaints are.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
They have to have enough people to arrest all those fulong gong people. We cant allow people to have deep breathing exercises, that may lead to believing in God.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,312
2,101
126
Originally posted by: piasabird
They have to have enough people to arrest all those fulong gong people. We cant allow people to have deep breathing exercises, that may lead to believing in God.

I dont see the relationship. But China doesnt need a military.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: piasabird
They have to have enough people to arrest all those fulong gong people. We cant allow people to have deep breathing exercises, that may lead to believing in God.

I dont see the relationship. But China doesnt need a military.

They need a military just as much as the United States needs a military.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,312
2,101
126
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: piasabird
They have to have enough people to arrest all those fulong gong people. We cant allow people to have deep breathing exercises, that may lead to believing in God.

I dont see the relationship. But China doesnt need a military.

They need a military just as much as the United States needs a military.

Not really. But whatever floats their boat. We could be them anyway.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: piasabird
They have to have enough people to arrest all those fulong gong people. We cant allow people to have deep breathing exercises, that may lead to believing in God.

I dont see the relationship. But China doesnt need a military.

They need a military just as much as the United States needs a military.

Not really. But whatever floats their boat. We could be them anyway.

Which is why they need a military. The US is much more likely to negotiate terms agreeable to China if China is capable of bringing force to the table, in any situation. "Speak softly and carry a big stick" anyone?
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,312
2,101
126
Originally posted by: Fox5
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: piasabird
They have to have enough people to arrest all those fulong gong people. We cant allow people to have deep breathing exercises, that may lead to believing in God.

I dont see the relationship. But China doesnt need a military.

They need a military just as much as the United States needs a military.

Not really. But whatever floats their boat. We could be them anyway.

Which is why they need a military. The US is much more likely to negotiate terms agreeable to China if China is capable of bringing force to the table, in any situation. "Speak softly and carry a big stick" anyone?

Point taken. But at least they stay out of Taiwan because of US the U.S.!
 
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