US to China: Why do you need a military?

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Why does any nation need a military when America has such a powerful one and everyone's best interests at heart?
Every nation should lay down arms and just accept Pax Americana as their destiny.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: piasabird
They have to have enough people to arrest all those fulong gong people. We cant allow people to have deep breathing exercises, that may lead to believing in God.

I dont see the relationship. But China doesnt need a military.

They need a military just as much as the United States needs a military.

Not really. But whatever floats their boat. We could be them anyway.

Which is why they need a military. The US is much more likely to negotiate terms agreeable to China if China is capable of bringing force to the table, in any situation. "Speak softly and carry a big stick" anyone?

Point taken. But at least they stay out of Taiwan because of US the U.S.!

Taiwan is likely to be one of the topics China wants a military for. Hopefully all 3 sides can come to a peaceful agreement that doesn't result in just giving Taiwan to China. An inability to compromise could bring about a disasterous war, though I'm sure this is one war that even Bush wouldn't be eager to jump into.

 

[Future Shock]

What I liked was this last paragraph from the original article:

"The United States clearly has to be sensitive to world opinion. We also have high regard for having 3,000 people killed on September 11 in our country, and we don't intend for that to happen again," he said.

OK, Mr. Secretary, then when do we plan on removing all U.S troops from the Middle East? Cause as long as we go spittin' in someone else's face, they will push back...

Future Shock

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: Future Shock
Cause as long as we go spittin' in someone else's face, they will push back...

You would think this is pretty basic logic and quite evident when looking at history.

It's very odd that some Americans actually seem to believe we should be able to push at will without being pushed back.

 

[0roo0roo]

they need to do something with the masses of jobless and doomed to be forever single and fustrated men that will plague their country for years to come. its a situation that begs for war. they've already shown how easily they are able to rile up hate of japanese and such in their population thanks to information control and distorted history they teach their kids.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
they need to do something with the masses of jobless and doomed to be forever single and fustrated men that will plague their country for years to come. its a situation that begs for war. they've already shown how easily they are able to rile up hate of japanese and such in their population thanks to information control and distorted history they teach their kids.

You telling me the Japanese during WW2 were the good guys and just misunderstood ? Seriously all over Asia the Japanese are not liked by many the peoples who lived under their boot. Sure it was some 50+ years ago but the memories are not losted.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It's the logical extreme, meant to draw attention to how ridiculous Rumfeld's complaints are.

Logical extreme? All I see is illogical dribble.

 

[PingSpike]

America: Where freedom was born, lived and died.

 

[Looney]

I remember a time when Rumsfeld was a media and public favourite. In fact, wasn't he tied with like Ben Afflek for sexiest man of the year or something once?

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Yahoo News: Rumsfeld urges China to come clean on military spending

"In life you can't have it both ways," Rumsfeld said.

"You can't be successful economically and engage the rest of the world, and have people milling around your country and selling things and buying things and engaging in exchanges, and have them at the same time worried or wondering about some mystery that they see as behavior that is unsettling," he said.

Oh yeah, it would be completely unresponsible for an economic super power to go around starting wars or something like that.

He suggested, however, that Al-Qaeda has been "enormously successful" in manipulating a free press to spread disinformation and weaken the will of its opponents.

Damn that free press, printing all that Al-Qaeda propaganda. For that matter, aren't the US and Israel the only countries "at war" with Al-Qaeda right now? Damn the press for convincing us not to have a full scale war with no regards for the cost in human life, they've broken America's back.

Kinda boggles the mind that US and Israel would be the only ones at war with Al-Qaeda right now considering the number of countries around the world where there have been terrorist attacks for which Al-Qaeda has claimed responsibility. Truly mind boggling that nobody else would have the cojones to even make an attempt to get up and kick their asses.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: bamacre
It is amazing how much money man spends due to fear.

And in so doing, brings his greatest fears to fruition.

 

[lozina]

Man, whenever you are in need of some humor Rumsfeld never fails to deliver! :thumbsup:

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I always find it funny when US officials question Chinese military expenditures.

I always find it funny when we try to lock down any country with our "Do as we say, not as we do," mentality that has become so popular, especially with this administration. We are allowed to have all things, most important power and WMDs, but we are the clamp to decide who else should have these things. Yes, China is run by a extremist militant who has a total disregard for the rights of his people and believes he can bring any country to it's knees who tries to oppose him on a foreign policy level...oh wait, that sounds a lot like our current president too doesn't it?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I can forgive Rumsfeld for his very ironic views on the Chinese military...but his views on a free press, and the views that seem to be shared by the administration as a whole and a large majority of their supporters, are something else. I've found the quickest way to figure out the worth of an individual's views on freedom and democracy is to find out their opinion of the press. If they respond with anything that sounds even a little bit like what Rumsfeld said, I feel I can pretty much ignore anything else they have to say on those two topics, as it's pretty clear at that point that they don't really understand the concept.

Does the press get paid to disseminate their opinion/views, and to present their view of factual information, or do they do it for some greater good?
The quickest way is not always the correct way, and in this instance, totally absent of a reasonable thought process.

I don't know if you can lump the entire press into one catagory, one way or the other, but the journalists I've met really seem to believe in the concept of free press and the peoples' right to know as being the foundation of a good democracy. There are certainly better ways to make money if that's the only reason they were doing it...

Speaking of a reasonable thought process, I've actually thought about the press a lot, and the role they play in our system, and as far as I can see, it pretty much comes down to this. Our press isn't perfect, often they are quite flawed, but the alternatives are much, MUCH worse.

Based on your rather cryptic post, and everything else you've posted, I'm guessing your one of those people who thinks that the press really needs to "get behind" Bush and Co and their fight against terrorism. They need to make sure to only report pro-US news, especially about Iraq, and they need to stop giving a forum for people leaking things about intelligence and police activities, no matter what those activities are. And in conservative land, those things won't damage the role a free press plays in society.

But here's the thing, and there is really no getting around it, either you have a free press or you don't. If the press is subordinate to the government's war effort, then they aren't free in any sense of the word. This doesn't mean they shouldn't use some common sense as to balancing news with harm to the country, but it needs to be THEIR common sense. If we allow the administration to silence the media by waving the flag and talking about the war on terror, how soon before that flag waving is used to hide all sorts of things...things we'd really be better off knowing about? As much as some people hate the media for revealing the various NSA operations as of late...don't they seem like the kind of issues we need to be talking about?

In the end, it comes down to this, I'd much rather deal with the problems of a media with too much freedom than a media with not enough. I realize some people don't see it this way, but I urge them to really think things through. If there is one thing all totalitarian governments in history have done, it's silencing the media. Not all of them totally call off elections, not all of them jail or kill their political opposition, not all of them disarm their citizens, but ALL of them reign in the media. There is a reason.

There was a time when the 80% of the journalists weren't left wing idealogues.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I can forgive Rumsfeld for his very ironic views on the Chinese military...but his views on a free press, and the views that seem to be shared by the administration as a whole and a large majority of their supporters, are something else. I've found the quickest way to figure out the worth of an individual's views on freedom and democracy is to find out their opinion of the press. If they respond with anything that sounds even a little bit like what Rumsfeld said, I feel I can pretty much ignore anything else they have to say on those two topics, as it's pretty clear at that point that they don't really understand the concept.

Does the press get paid to disseminate their opinion/views, and to present their view of factual information, or do they do it for some greater good?
The quickest way is not always the correct way, and in this instance, totally absent of a reasonable thought process.

I don't know if you can lump the entire press into one catagory, one way or the other, but the journalists I've met really seem to believe in the concept of free press and the peoples' right to know as being the foundation of a good democracy. There are certainly better ways to make money if that's the only reason they were doing it...

Speaking of a reasonable thought process, I've actually thought about the press a lot, and the role they play in our system, and as far as I can see, it pretty much comes down to this. Our press isn't perfect, often they are quite flawed, but the alternatives are much, MUCH worse.

Based on your rather cryptic post, and everything else you've posted, I'm guessing your one of those people who thinks that the press really needs to "get behind" Bush and Co and their fight against terrorism. They need to make sure to only report pro-US news, especially about Iraq, and they need to stop giving a forum for people leaking things about intelligence and police activities, no matter what those activities are. And in conservative land, those things won't damage the role a free press plays in society.

But here's the thing, and there is really no getting around it, either you have a free press or you don't. If the press is subordinate to the government's war effort, then they aren't free in any sense of the word. This doesn't mean they shouldn't use some common sense as to balancing news with harm to the country, but it needs to be THEIR common sense. If we allow the administration to silence the media by waving the flag and talking about the war on terror, how soon before that flag waving is used to hide all sorts of things...things we'd really be better off knowing about? As much as some people hate the media for revealing the various NSA operations as of late...don't they seem like the kind of issues we need to be talking about?

In the end, it comes down to this, I'd much rather deal with the problems of a media with too much freedom than a media with not enough. I realize some people don't see it this way, but I urge them to really think things through. If there is one thing all totalitarian governments in history have done, it's silencing the media. Not all of them totally call off elections, not all of them jail or kill their political opposition, not all of them disarm their citizens, but ALL of them reign in the media. There is a reason.

There was a time when the 80% of the journalists weren't left wing idealogues.

There was a time when the US was the most liberal and progressive country in the world, and stood for ideals like freedom and justice.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Krakn3Dfx

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I always find it funny when US officials question Chinese military expenditures.

I always find it funny when we try to lock down any country with our "Do as we say, not as we do," mentality that has become so popular, especially with this administration. We are allowed to have all things, most important power and WMDs, but we are the clamp to decide who else should have these things. Yes, China is run by a extremist militant who has a total disregard for the rights of his people and believes he can bring any country to it's knees who tries to oppose him on a foreign policy level...oh wait, that sounds a lot like our current president too doesn't it?

Does sound a little like our president as a matter of fact. But who would you rather have the power, our president or theirs? Bush isn't exactly the shining beacon of peace and domestic tranquility but who's president do you trust more? Ours or theirs? You want to level the playing field and have everybody be equal. Then prepare to have your standard of living drastically lowered and your freedoms severely limited. Want to make a post like the one you did above that I'm replying to now? Pack your bags cuz your going on a little vacation. Make sure you pack enough to make your lifetime stay in prison nice and comfortable.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Krakn3Dfx

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I always find it funny when US officials question Chinese military expenditures.

I always find it funny when we try to lock down any country with our "Do as we say, not as we do," mentality that has become so popular, especially with this administration. We are allowed to have all things, most important power and WMDs, but we are the clamp to decide who else should have these things. Yes, China is run by a extremist militant who has a total disregard for the rights of his people and believes he can bring any country to it's knees who tries to oppose him on a foreign policy level...oh wait, that sounds a lot like our current president too doesn't it?

Does sound a little like our president as a matter of fact. But who would you rather have the power, our president or theirs? Bush isn't exactly the shining beacon of peace and domestic tranquility but who's president do you trust more? Ours or theirs? You want to level the playing field and have everybody be equal. Then prepare to have your standard of living drastically lowered and your freedoms severely limited. Want to make a post like the one you did above that I'm replying to now? Pack your bags cuz your going on a little vacation. Make sure you pack enough to make your lifetime stay in prison nice and comfortable.

Oh come on, they don't put people in Guantanomo forever.

 

[lowfatbaconboy]

here is a fun number...even if china is spending 3 times the 35billion that is about 105 billion
the US spends ~400 billion a year

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Krakn3Dfx

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I always find it funny when US officials question Chinese military expenditures.

I always find it funny when we try to lock down any country with our "Do as we say, not as we do," mentality that has become so popular, especially with this administration. We are allowed to have all things, most important power and WMDs, but we are the clamp to decide who else should have these things. Yes, China is run by a extremist militant who has a total disregard for the rights of his people and believes he can bring any country to it's knees who tries to oppose him on a foreign policy level...oh wait, that sounds a lot like our current president too doesn't it?

Does sound a little like our president as a matter of fact. But who would you rather have the power, our president or theirs? Bush isn't exactly the shining beacon of peace and domestic tranquility but who's president do you trust more? Ours or theirs? You want to level the playing field and have everybody be equal. Then prepare to have your standard of living drastically lowered and your freedoms severely limited. Want to make a post like the one you did above that I'm replying to now? Pack your bags cuz your going on a little vacation. Make sure you pack enough to make your lifetime stay in prison nice and comfortable.

Oh come on, they don't put people in Guantanomo forever.

You better hope they do.

 

[GeNome]

Actually, in theory communism is an ideal form of government. Unfortunately, it always ends up more like a monarchy.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Krakn3Dfx

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I always find it funny when US officials question Chinese military expenditures.

I always find it funny when we try to lock down any country with our "Do as we say, not as we do," mentality that has become so popular, especially with this administration. We are allowed to have all things, most important power and WMDs, but we are the clamp to decide who else should have these things. Yes, China is run by a extremist militant who has a total disregard for the rights of his people and believes he can bring any country to it's knees who tries to oppose him on a foreign policy level...oh wait, that sounds a lot like our current president too doesn't it?

Does sound a little like our president as a matter of fact. But who would you rather have the power, our president or theirs? Bush isn't exactly the shining beacon of peace and domestic tranquility but who's president do you trust more? Ours or theirs? You want to level the playing field and have everybody be equal. Then prepare to have your standard of living drastically lowered and your freedoms severely limited. Want to make a post like the one you did above that I'm replying to now? Pack your bags cuz your going on a little vacation. Make sure you pack enough to make your lifetime stay in prison nice and comfortable.

Trust more? Well, let's see, on one hand, we have the Chinese president, he says what he means, means what he says, even if he is a total and complete nutcase. On the other hand, we have Bush, who says what he wants you to hear, and means to take away all your rights piece by piece under the guise of a foreign threat. Your extremist comparison in the U.S. is flawed, since we have had many, many presidents who we have lived with under the threat of terrorism, but all of who kept our personal freedoms intact because they believed it was pointless to live in the land of the free if you weren't free to live your own life. Bush believes in dismantling every freedom that he can without raising red flags in his own party, which he has, to date, failed to do. The U.S. is on a slippery slope right now trying to balance our freedom with the fear that this president constantly pushes on us. He talks the talk, and then he pulls funding from terror protection departments all over this country while giving huge amounts of money to billion dollar companies in tax cuts and corporate welfare. He operates a smokescreen of gay marriage bans and anti-abortion legislation, while taking the focus off of a losing battle in Iraq that's only result has been companies close to his administration walking away with tons of cash from repairs and rebuilds that aren't even happening. We are being led by a quasi-religious right that believe George W. Bush walks hand in hand with Jesus Christ himself, and the rest be damned, even if it means bringing down this country from the inside to satisfy the corporate greed that this administration feeds.

So who do I trust more? Honestly?
Who would I rather have in power? Well, of course I would rather have a president that gives 2 sh*ts about the people he took office to work for. I would rather have the guy who won in 2000, or the guy who probably won in 2004, take your pick. I would rather have an administration who doesn't just laugh it off when you bring up vote fraud in this country, and I would rather have a voting system that doesn't just blow off a 7% difference between exit polls and the final vote count when every other country that has exit polling reports 1% or less difference in the final count. And what happens in the U.S. when this happens? Republicans laugh, call democrats bitter, and push even harder to move electronic voting machines into place in counties with a larger democratic population.

I'm disgusted with everything I see, with the American people in general, who have ignored the dismantling of our rights and our system and the oversight that should be in place for things like this.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: lowfatbaconboy
here is a fun number...even if china is spending 3 times the 35billion that is about 105 billion
the US spends ~400 billion a year

The US pays its soldiers somewhat decent wages, and China doesn't accurately report their economy anyway.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: lowfatbaconboy
here is a fun number...even if china is spending 3 times the 35billion that is about 105 billion
the US spends ~400 billion a year

The US pays its soldiers somewhat decent wages, and China doesn't accurately report their economy anyway.

Where's that from? Do you realize how many U.S. troops feed their families with food stamps and only have a roof over their heads because of base housing? I can tell you: too many. Median salary for an E2 Private in the U.S. Army is less than $16,000. You finally hit $22,000 when you're E4. That's decent?

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
they need to do something with the masses of jobless and doomed to be forever single and fustrated men that will plague their country for years to come. its a situation that begs for war. they've already shown how easily they are able to rile up hate of japanese and such in their population thanks to information control and distorted history they teach their kids.

Wow... just wow...

Go read some history books and recent news about Japan and their history books. They soft pad World War II as if they were the victims. Clearly they were not. There is still a lot of bad-blood against Japan in Korea, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc, for the acts they did 50 years ago in World War II.

What Japan did amounted to genocide in many areas. Go read a history book about a Nazi diplomat who was horrified about what the Japanese did in China that he took some people in for refuge.

Seriously, you just insulted every non-Japanese Asian.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
they need to do something with the masses of jobless and doomed to be forever single and fustrated men that will plague their country for years to come. its a situation that begs for war. they've already shown how easily they are able to rile up hate of japanese and such in their population thanks to information control and distorted history they teach their kids.

Wow... just wow...

Go read some history books and recent news about Japan and their history books. They soft pad World War II as if they were the victims. Clearly they were not. There is still a lot of bad-blood against Japan in Korea, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc, for the acts they did 50 years ago in World War II.

What Japan did amounted to genocide in many areas. Go read a history book about a Nazi diplomat who was horrified about what the Japanese did in China that he took some people in for refuge.

Seriously, you just insulted every non-Japanese Asian.

I think that he's talking more about the control of information in China and potential social problems there. The Chinese government was taking advantage of Japanese history to enrage its population just a few months ago. I believe that he's claiming that the Chinese teach distorted history (Tiananmen Square, etc.) not that the Japanese weren't horrible in WW2.

The history textbooks in question are only used by less than 0.3% of Japanese schools, too.