US troops deploying into Israel

[PokerGuy]

In short its a very dangerous game for both sides to play, diplomacy and compromise is far cheaper for all sides.

That's assuming you're dealing with a reasonable adversary, and that's assuming you are willing to "compromise" on everything. Those are both bad assumptions, so you need to do whatever you can to prepare to deal with the enemy. That doesn't mean you ignore diplomacy, you can do both at the same time.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Apologies, I was thinking that my post is absurd enough that it would have registered on your sarcasm meter... but then again, a large proportion of the American public actually do hold those views.

Ah - sorry.

 

[Thump553]

A temporary military exercise is not the deployment of US troops to Israel.

 

[Macamus Prime]

The US hasn't the time nor the money for a war with Iran. If there is one that means the Iranians have committed a serious act of provocation. That means that if Iran gets a war it's because it wants one. Why do you think the Iranian government wants to have it's people victims of war?

Some of you need to make up your minds; is Iran a serious threat, or not?

Some of you scoffed over Iran's threats of blocking oil shipments.

Yet, the same some, have their tits falling out of their shirts about suitcase nukes, warheads and Iranian cyborg ninja assassins that shoot lasers out of their eyes.

You can't laugh at their capabilities, where as a few months ago you were pissing in your pants about how Iran is moments from taking over the world with it's arsenal of nuclear death and destruction.

The reality is that Iran is garbage. It's a beaten nation with beaten people.

Furthermore and even more importantly; the logistics of a portable ground nuke (suitcase, etc) is improbable. A dirty nuke can NOT happen. Especially, if it targeted to someone so close. The carriers will either be discovered or die from radiation poisoning.

They don't really have warhead capabilities either.

So, they have missile strikes. OK - they fire a few a Israel. The US then launches a fuck load at them. End of story.

Iran is a joke on it's best day. Yet, propaganda has made them some sort of nuke missile spewing beast that will destroy us all.

Some of you need to stop sensationalizing the Middle East's 90 pound trash talking coward.

 

[Anarchist420]

I feel sorry for these troops that are going over there. They're being used as bait. This is how the U.S. has started all of its wars.

I expect to hear on the news within the next few weeks that they've all been killed. I'm pretty sure Obama probably already has his request for declaration of war written up.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Some of you need to make up your minds; is Iran a serious threat, or not?

Some of you scoffed over Iran's threats of blocking oil shipments.

Yet, the same some, have their tits falling out of their shirts about suitcase nukes, warheads and Iranian cyborg ninja assassins that shoot lasers out of their eyes.

You can't laugh at their capabilities, where as a few months ago you were pissing in your pants about how Iran is moments from taking over the world with it's arsenal of nuclear death and destruction.

The reality is that Iran is garbage. It's a beaten nation with beaten people.

Furthermore and even more importantly; the logistics of a portable ground nuke (suitcase, etc) is improbable. A dirty nuke can NOT happen. Especially, if it targeted to someone so close. The carriers will either be discovered or die from radiation poisoning.

They don't really have warhead capabilities either.

So, they have missile strikes. OK - they fire a few a Israel. The US then launches a fuck load at them. End of story.

Iran is a joke on it's best day. Yet, propaganda has made them some sort of nuke missile spewing beast that will destroy us all.

Some of you need to stop sensationalizing the Middle East's 90 pound trash talking coward.

You really don't know who you are talking to. I was against the Iraq war before it started, probably about the same time you were looking for prizes in your cereal box.

It appears you wish a war would happen to validate your political leanings. So be it. All that notwithstanding, the US has no interest starting another Iraq but ten times worse. Sorry.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I feel sorry for these troops that are going over there. They're being used as bait. This is how the U.S. has started all of its wars.

I expect to hear on the news within the next few weeks that they've all been killed. I'm pretty sure Obama probably already has his request for declaration of war written up.

Marked for further evidence of the idiot

 

[Pens1566]

We cross train with them all the time. Army in the Negev, etc.. Nothing newsworthy here.

 

[Macamus Prime]

You really don't know who you are talking to. I was against the Iraq war before it started, probably about the same time you were looking for prizes in your cereal box.

It appears you wish a war would happen to validate your political leanings. So be it. All that notwithstanding, the US has no interest starting another Iraq but ten times worse. Sorry.

Your comment, but I was not addressing you and your stance.

There have been some pretty hysterical people on these boards about Iran's "capabilities" - and what they may do to provoke a war. I did say "some of you" - but, I am not looping you in, nor meant to loop you in.

These "some of you" have come up with provoking scenarios that are pretty fucking detached from reality. They might as well have worried about Ahmadinejad jump out of a birthday cap, totally naked and mouth fucking every American.

And about my political leanings; I've generally screamed and yelled about preserving life as best as possible, as well as improving the quality of said life. For me to push war, means I want death and destruction, just so I can,... further scream about death and destruction???

I don't make any money when I post my stupidity. The reality is that it passes time. So, if world peace is declared tomorrow, do you honestly think I'll be on these forums? I don't even post on the weekends. I don't care what happens here on these forums - why would I care if there isn't anything for me to scream and yell about?

Back to your point; there is no interest (nor energy/will) to war with Iran.

However, there is a considerable amount of propaganda about Iran's capabilities. And, from these very boards, some of you (but not you) have smacked your own junk raw and red while thinking and hoping for a war with Iran.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Some of you need to make up your minds; is Iran a serious threat, or not? Iran can be a threat - militarily to the US no. to the local area - yes. They have demonstrated the capacity to threaten the next door neighbors and have made statements expanding the target zone.

Some of you scoffed over Iran's threats of blocking oil shipments. Iran can not block the shipments. they can cause a minor interruption to them.

Yet, the same some, have their tits falling out of their shirts about suitcase nukes, warheads and Iranian cyborg ninja assassins that shoot lasers out of their eyes. Some, including you play way to much electronic future warfare gaming

You can't laugh at their capabilities, where as a few months ago you were pissing in your pants about how Iran is moments from taking over the world with it's arsenal of nuclear death and destruction. No one has stated that they are moments way. Statements have been made that Iran is developing the capability of nukes and they have stated that they may use them. the concern is using the nuke threat as blackmail against other nations, locally and worldwide.

The reality is that Iran is garbage. It's a beaten nation with beaten people.
They have leadership that is trying to make a statement. The people are not beaten; they will defend their country if invaded. Even Iraq was unable to make any advances. It is a crippled nation that is utilizing it's resources the best that the leadership can plan for - strong offensive deterrent.

Furthermore and even more importantly; the logistics of a portable ground nuke (suitcase, etc) is improbable. A dirty nuke can NOT happen. Especially, if it targeted to someone so close. The carriers will either be discovered or die from radiation poisoning. A dirty nuke can happen - there does not need to be an explosion; just the disbursement of material. Martyrs do not care about death. If one can walk around with chunks of C4 in a duffel bag; the same can be done with a lead container wrapped in an explosive

They don't really have warhead capabilities either. We have no knowledge of what their warhead capabilities are w/ the exception of not being a nuke. We can extrapolate based on the size of the missile the maximum explosive power that could be contained.

So, they have missile strikes. OK - they fire a few a Israel. The US then launches a fuck load at them. End of story. the US is not going to retaliate if they launch against Israel. The US will only retaliate if their forces are attacked or there is interference with world navigation issues

Iran is a joke on it's best day. Yet, propaganda has made them some sort of nuke missile spewing beast that will destroy us all. Iran's sabre rattling has enough credibility to keep military forces paying attention; keep intelligence people busy analyzing data and the oil markets in turmoil; affecting the general economic health of the world. The Mouse That Roared.

Some of you need to stop sensationalizing the Middle East's 90 pound trash talking coward.

One should always evaluate the opponents capability and plan for different scenarios.

Many will be wrong, but some scenarios can be correct. If properly planned for, the impact can be neutralized to some extent.

 

[Macamus Prime]

the same can be done with a lead container wrapped in an explosive

Do you have any idea how much lead is needed, to carry enough radiated material to be effective in a "suitcase" nuke - while not killing the human carrier?

Just so you have a point of reference, read this article from wired; http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/10/ff_radioactivecargo/all/1

A piece of metal weighing less than 6 ounces,...

These 6 ounces emitted enough radiation to harm people standing near the container. If it harms the people standing near it,... it will harm the human carrier. To the point where they will not be able to transport the radiated material to it's destination - right?

The containment of radiated material is a real logistical change for terrorist suicide bombers. They will actually die before they "detonate". Any other methods to contain the radiation, will ring alarms and bells. Again, 6 ounces is dangerous enough. Anything larger, or multiplied into many individual "units", will draw attention.

There is also the matter of geiger readers. They WILL pick up unusual reading of radiation and tip off security forces.

Handling radiated material is not the same as handling explosives - you do realize this, right?

This is the one point I will not bend on, until some of your fantasies about suitcase nukes actually come true.

You need to seriously stop. A lead container?? Really? Is this lead container the size of a coke can? But, let me guess, it detonates like a full size atom bomb, right?

Here is a picture of some contained radiated material in a lab:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_protection

Looks pretty heavy, don't it?

Also,...I'm the one playing too many electronic video games?? You (as well as the others fearful of Iran) should get in touch with reality at least.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Do you have any idea how much lead is needed, to carry enough radiated material to be effective in a "suitcase" nuke - while not killing the human carrier?

<snip>

The whole purpose of a dirty bomb is to make a mess.
Worrying about death is not a concern.

The only issue is getting it transported to the desired location and setting it off.

From your link

Since the terrorist attacks of 9/11, security experts and politicians have zeroed in on containers as a major risk. At the top of their list is the possibility that containers could be used to smuggle a nuclear weapon, in pieces or whole. But nuclear bombs are tremendously complicated, and the key components aren’t exactly commonplace. In security circles, nukes are what’s known as a “high consequence, low probability” threat.

But that’s not true for the next danger on the list: a radiological dispersion device, also known as a dirty bomb. A payload of radioactive material — from inside a hospital’s teletherapy machine or instrument sterilizer, for example — sits atop a pile of conventional explosives. When the bomb detonates, it blows a cloud of radioactive dust into the air. The wind does the rest: Under the right conditions, just 20 milligrams of cesium-137 — roughly the amount found in gadgets that hospitals use to calibrate their radiation therapy equipment — could contaminate 40 city blocks.

Compared to a nuclear explosion, a dirty bomb would be a hiccup in terms of destructive force. The real problem would be panic. A light coating of radioactive dust raining down on Manhattan might cause only a minor increase in cancer rates, but it would definitely result in a major national freak-out. Set off at a major port, a dirty bomb would cause a chain reaction of precautionary closures and painstaking inspections that could bring the entire U.S. economy to a crawl within weeks. “The idea that dirty bombs could cause major destruction is complete bullshit. What they could do is cause billions and billions in economic damage,” says James Acton, an analyst at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Dirty bombs are weapons of mass disruption.”

Given that such could be inside a van, panel truck, 18 wheeler or a shipping container; the chances are good that determination and dedication can succeed. these do not have to be backpack nukes; just any type of radiation device wrapped with explosives. Lead wrapped just makes it more difficult to be detected at long range.

 

[Macamus Prime]

The whole purpose of a dirty bomb is to make a mess.
Worrying about death is not a concern.

The only issue is getting it transported to the desired location and setting it off.

From your link

Given that such could be inside a van, panel truck, 18 wheeler or a shipping container; the chances are good that determination and dedication can succeed. these do not have to be backpack nukes; just any type of radiation device wrapped with explosives. Lead wrapped just makes it more difficult to be detected at long range.

The shards of lead would kill more people than the spread of radiated material.

There would have to be some serious gaps in security for NOT detecting radiation transported from Iran to the US.

"Suitcase" nukes are in the minds of people looking to start a fight with Iran. Or, hoping to scare the shit out of people to follow and support such action.

Deploying and detonating one is improbable.

Get back to me when it actually happens. Until then, Iran isn't much of anything important.

 

[Joepublic2]

Which would explain how no one really ever addressed the innocent Iraqis killed. There is virtually no noise about dead innocent Iraqis in the US news and public voice. And, the people who DO bring it up are viewed and treated in the following manner:
1) They are enemies of the US, since they are "criticizing" the military
2) They are stupid, because they don't realize that "they" (Arabs and Muslims) are all out to kill Americans - and we have to get them before they get us.
3) They are just dismissed; radio silence or just flat out stating; "your dumb,.. huh-huh-uh-huh,...."

Civilian collateral is unavoidable in any armed conflict. This is the best reason to not wage war in the first place if it's in any way avoidable. And no, not all Arabs are out to kill Americans but one of the stated goals of the Islamic religion (it's about half religion/half a manual for tyrannically subjugating people to further it's own ends) is to convert all non-believers, at the tip of a sword if need be, and kill the ones who refuse to convert. Have you ever read the Qur'an?

Shut up Paulbot with your tinfoil hat. Your views are dangerous and will get everyone killed. Islam is a religion of hate, and they will not stop until each and everyone of us is dead. Are you saying you support Israel being nuked?

Who exactly is going to nuke Isreal? Israel has probably AT LEAST a dozen undeclared nuclear warheads; probably thermonuclear as they're certainly clever enough to figure out how to build such a device if the didn't just outright copy a US or soviet device (remember who helped the US beat the soviets in creating such devices in the first place following WWII).

Some of you need to make up your minds; is Iran a serious threat, or not?

They're not a credible threat at the moment because although they have a very large standing army (using outdated equipment) they have no real way to project power and no nuclear devices to throw around. And I'm sure Israel will do everything required to prevent them from acquiring or manufacturing one which is a good thing in my book as the less Islamic states that have nukes the better.

Do you have any idea how much lead is needed, to carry enough radiated material to be effective in a "suitcase" nuke - while not killing the human carrier?

About 0.5mm of lead should do the trick perfectly and make at least the fissile mass part of the bomb virtually invisible to Geiger counters, as Uranium-235, which is the obvious choice for such a device after plutonium-239 (although the latter would be FAR more difficult to miniaturize to the point where you could fit it into a suitcase because plutonium devices must be implosion type fission bombs) is an alpha emitter and isn't dangerous at all radiologically speaking because while alpha particles are extremely damaging ionizing radiation they're also highly charged which means that they're going to turn into benign helium atoms after traveling through just several centimeters of atmosphere or colliding with the layer of dead epidermal cells on the top of my skin. I could hold a sub-critical chunk of U-235 for an extended period of time in my bare hands and suffer no ill effects as long as I made sure to thoroughly wash my hands after handling it to be sure I didn't ingest any microscopic particles of it.

And while the yield of an inefficient, tiny gun type fission bomb is probably not going to exceed 25kt even with modern engineering and electronic timing, if I was feeling like a real jerk I could replace the lead tamper with a cobalt tamper and make a truly dirty bomb, dirty in the sense of rendering a 100 square mile area uninhabitable for the better part of a few centuries and not just throwing around some chunks of hot materials with conventional explosives which is what most people understand a "dirty bomb" to be.

 

[piasabird]

Looks like the title of the post is a lie. A training exercise is not deploying troops.

 

[OCGuy]

Why does the liberal Democrat Obama want war so badly? NO BLOOD FOR OIL!

 

[cybrsage]

Training exercises with Israel is a good idea. They deal with daily missile attacks on the civilian population from the peace loving Palestinians. We can learn a bit from them on how to handle such things.

 

[cybrsage]

I wonder if any of them are going to be in Haifa, it is a VERY beautiful port city:

 

[JEDIYoda]

I feel sorry for these troops that are going over there. They're being used as bait. This is how the U.S. has started all of its wars.

I expect to hear on the news within the next few weeks that they've all been killed. I'm pretty sure Obama probably already has his request for declaration of war written up.

hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa......you can`t possibly be for real.......
You obviously know nothing about Israel......they do not need our troops at all.

Oh...I get it you must be a Dr. Who sheeple......

 

[Karl Agathon]

I wonder if any of them are going to be in Haifa, it is a VERY beautiful port city:

Very beautiful indeed!!!

 

[Anarchist420]

hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa......you can`t possibly be for real.......
You obviously know nothing about Israel......they do not need our troops at all.

Oh...I get it you must be a Dr. Who sheeple......

I didn't say that they needed American (i.e., they're not mine) troops. I don't even know if they're even in Israel, but I assume they are and I think that America is trying to provoke an attack so Obama will have an excuse to start another war.

 

[guyver01]

I didn't say that they needed American (i.e., they're not mine) troops.

if american troops aren't "your" troops.... then what country do you live in? what country are you sucking the teet of welfare on? what countries educational system failed you?

 

[StrangerGuy]

I wonder if any of them are going to be in Haifa, it is a VERY beautiful port city:

I'm sure at least some parts of the other Arab states are beautiful too. Does that mean those countries are well-run, prosperous and free of rampant human rights violation? The sheer absurdity of your argument makes me laugh.

 

[cybrsage]

I'm sure at least some parts of the other Arab states are beautiful too. Does that mean those countries are well-run, prosperous and free of rampant human rights violation? The sheer absurdity of your argument makes me laugh.

I think you need to read the post again. Here is my "argument":

I wonder if any of them are going to be in Haifa, it is a VERY beautiful port city:

Is it not a beautiful port city?

 

[SandEagle]

I wonder if any of them are going to be in Haifa, it is a VERY beautiful port city:

give me $4 billion in aide a year and watch me build a beautiful city too