Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Proletariat
God who said most of the civilians died you assface. They said like 1000 or something.Originally posted by: yllus
And every moron knows that 75% of buildings were utterly destroyed and most of the 300,000 civilians of the city died during the U.S. siege of Fallujah.
Right BBond?
Reports I read said 1200 civilians were murdered during the seige of Fallujah and 75% of the buildings in the city suffered major damage.
But we all know dropping 500 pound bombs, tank shells, and napalm don't really do much damage.
"Murdered"? 75% destroyed? got verification or just propaganda...."bbond"
CsG
"bbond"???
CsG
Where did you get the evidence behind the 1200+ dead being terrorists? The resistance had largely already fled Falluja by the time the U.S. moved in and leveled it.Originally posted by: dphantom
Can't we all just get along?? :disgust:
Fallujah was a superb example of urban warfare. A main form of resistance for the terrorists was the use of boobytraps especially cars and doors to buildings. To avoid US casualties, the ground commanders rightly determined that it would be better to destroy property that can be rebuilt rather than lose a human life forever.
It seems some would prefer US military be killed. Makes one wonder why they even live here.
"Most" of the Fallujah population was not killed. 1200+ terrorists were. Some civilians undoubtadly died too. I have not seen any confirmed numbers, certainly nothing like the street fighting of Stalingrad, Berlin or Hue where at least in Hue, communists killed hundred of men, women and children, most of whom were teachers, government employees or other educated people. I suspect some of the rabidly anti-US posters would also like all educated people removed so none could refute their hateful world view.
I for one am proud the Iraqis are taking control of their country and support Internation efforts to aid in that process.
America is where the braves go off to die for the cowards stupidities.I wonder how many of you video game chickenhawks are going to volunteer to go to Iraq?
Originally posted by: Votingisanillusion
The pictures of Fallujah censored by the fascist mass media:
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m10211&l=i&size=1&hd=0
Where is their skin?
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: DaFinn
"America, which didn't ratify the treaty, is the only country in the world still using the weapon."
Yup, that sounds like US of A. A country well above the others...
Did Iraq and North Korea ratify this treaty. Oh wait...
yes always nice to compare the US of A to those countries when it comes to the moral high ground
The point flew entirely over your head. You tried to say the USA was some bully by being the ONLY country to not ratify the treaty. I'm pointing out how fallacious and disingenous that comment is. Well, I'm sure there are many that didn't as well(either they didn't have the weapons, or they were asses). Why, then, should you be critical of the US? I love it. We are supposed to "win" battles without killing our troops, but we have to basically run up to the enemy and give them a love pat, and then put them down via lethal injection.
My point would be that we are the only country using it, if the report is true. We scream because a country may have WMD's and if we use something just as bad. Is the standard not what we do but what we sign? If the report isn't then the whole thing is moot perhaps, but if so and it was used in areas populated by civilians, we have done as bad as when Saddam gassed the Kurds.
I am going to wait before I yell too loudly, but in any event there IS a moral double standard with the use of these weapons and the cry over WMDs.
I don't really care who signed a piece of paper, I care what is used and how.
Originally posted by: cruiser1338
I see nothing wrong with it. If we didn't ratify the treaty, then who cares. Even if we did ratify it, what's the UN gonna do? Sanction us!!! Ahhhh, run for the hills. They couldn't. It'd cripple international trade. Oh wait, even worse. They could write a nasty letter!!
I see no problem. Civilians die all the time, it's called Collateral Damage (don't think Schwartzenegger). It's for the good of the people. Some have to be sacrificed for the good of the whole.
Sad....truly sad what was done to Fallujah.Although January 7 U.S.-led offensive in Fallujah, where more than 2,000 people were killed and thousands were made homeless, is still in people's minds. A lot will be shocked to learn that the U.S. forces are carrying on with their offensive there. And strangely, the media is giving a little attention to what is currently happening in Fallujah.
There is a good reason why Washington would want to keep the focus away from Fallujah at this time. The city residents who fled the offensive in January have started returning, and even those who have not lost family members are shocked by the devastation scenes, with thousands of houses being completely flattened. Fallujah, under a strict dusk-to-dawn curfew, has no running water, sewage system, or electricity, and that's just the utilities.
Here is Dr. Saleh Hussein Isawi, acting director of the Fallujah general hospital, describing what he saw when he entered the city on Christmas Eve:
I was there, inside the city - about 60% to 70% of the homes and buildings are completely crushed and damaged, and not ready to inhabit at the moment.
"Of the 30% still left standing, I don't think there is a single one that has not been exposed to some damage.
"One of my colleagues... went to see his home, and saw that it has almost completely collapsed and everything is burnt inside.
"When he went to his neighbours' home, he found a relative of his was dead and a dog had eaten the meat off him.
"I think we will see many things like this, because the U.S. forces have cleared the dead people from the streets, but not from inside the homes."
Also, Fallujah residents returning to their homes after the U.S. onslaught are suffering additional indignity of full fingerprinting and retinal scans at U.S. military checkpoints.
And while Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, the senior U.S. ground commander in Iraq, says that 40,000 residents ? less than 20% of the city's population of 300,000 ? have so far returned to the city, the Iraqi government puts the figure at 60,000, the Knight Rider news service reported.
Describing the devastation awaiting the Iraqi people returning to Fallujah, Dahr Jamail wrote on a January 7th article on The Nations' TomDispatch.com, saying:
"...three-quarters of [Fallujah] has by now been bombed or shelled into rubble, a city in whose ruins fighting continues even while most of its residents have yet to be allowed to return to their homes (many of which no longer exist). The atrocities committed there in the last month or so are, in many ways, similar to those observed during the failed U.S. Marine siege of the city last April, though on a far grander scale. This time, in addition, reports from families inside the city, along with photographic evidence, point toward the U.S. military's use of chemical and phosphorous weapons as well as cluster bombs there. The few residents allowed to return in the final week of 2004 were handed military-produced leaflets instructing them not to eat any food from inside the city, nor to drink the water".
The Atrocities committed in Fallujah is a clear example of the self-defeating insanity of the Bush Administration's strategy in the so-called "war on terror", which doesn't seem to differentiate between acts of resistance against foreign occupation and acts of terrorism against civilians.
Washington has ignored the fact that peace can only be brought to a country where people are not dealing with the basics of survival, where they have homes, utilities, and a sense of security.
The U.S. ?Peace? has pushed Fallujah generations back.
It seems that the U.S. is "confident that residents will come to accept that the destruction was necessary to rid Fallujah of the insurgents who had controlled the city," says the Los Angeles Times'.
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I was there, inside the city - about 60% to 70% of the homes and buildings are completely crushed and damaged, and not ready to inhabit at the moment.
"Of the 30% still left standing, I don't think there is a single one that has not been exposed to some damage.
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
"Murdered"? 75% destroyed? got verification or just propaganda...."bbond"
CsG
I was there, inside the city - about 60% to 70% of the homes and buildings are completely crushed and damaged, and not ready to inhabit at the moment.
"Of the 30% still left standing, I don't think there is a single one that has not been exposed to some damage.
"City of 300,000"Originally posted by: BBond
How do you confuse Dr. Saleh Hussein Isawi with Oscar winning documentary maker Michael Moore?
And lies? From eyewitnesses?
You're right. I'd much rather believe George (Iraq has WMD) Bush. He never lies. At least not that the average Bush supporter can tell.
Originally posted by: Ozoned
"City of 300,000"Originally posted by: BBond
How do you confuse Dr. Saleh Hussein Isawi with Oscar winning documentary maker Michael Moore?
And lies? From eyewitnesses?
You're right. I'd much rather believe George (Iraq has WMD) Bush. He never lies. At least not that the average Bush supporter can tell.
"60% to 70% of the homes and buildings are completely crushed and damaged"
:camera:'s ????
Originally posted by: Ozoned
"City of 300,000"Originally posted by: BBond
How do you confuse Dr. Saleh Hussein Isawi with Oscar winning documentary maker Michael Moore?
And lies? From eyewitnesses?
You're right. I'd much rather believe George (Iraq has WMD) Bush. He never lies. At least not that the average Bush supporter can tell.
"60% to 70% of the homes and buildings are completely crushed and damaged"
:camera:'s ????
How can you make flash judgements about peoples lives like that dude? I don't know.... this just isn't how I was raised. What you people are saying...Originally posted by: cruiser1338
I see nothing wrong with it. If we didn't ratify the treaty, then who cares. Even if we did ratify it, what's the UN gonna do? Sanction us!!! Ahhhh, run for the hills. They couldn't. It'd cripple international trade. Oh wait, even worse. They could write a nasty letter!!
I see no problem. Civilians die all the time, it's called Collateral Damage (don't think Schwartzenegger). It's for the good of the people. Some have to be sacrificed for the good of the whole.
Originally posted by: Proletariat
How can you make flash judgements about peoples lives like that dude? I don't know.... this just isn't how I was raised. What you people are saying...Originally posted by: cruiser1338
I see nothing wrong with it. If we didn't ratify the treaty, then who cares. Even if we did ratify it, what's the UN gonna do? Sanction us!!! Ahhhh, run for the hills. They couldn't. It'd cripple international trade. Oh wait, even worse. They could write a nasty letter!!
I see no problem. Civilians die all the time, it's called Collateral Damage (don't think Schwartzenegger). It's for the good of the people. Some have to be sacrificed for the good of the whole.
Originally posted by: Nik
Sorry, but all's fair in love and war.