Usefullness of Hardware T&L?

CyberSax

Banned
Mar 12, 2000
1,253
0
0
For those of you that have GeForce cards, how useful have you found hardware T&L to be? Nvidia claims that it takes a substantial amount of processing off the CPU freeing it to do other things (and hence increasing framerate), but, some cards that don't have hardware T&L like the Voodoo4/5 seem to perform comprably. Also, the GeForce scales upwards a lot more on CPU's than it should, implying that that the hardware T&L isn't kicking in as much as it should be (if it were, framerates would be the same on a P2-300 as they would be on an Athlon 1Ghz).

Well, what are your thoughts on the topic. My GeForce MX is in the mail on the way to me right now
 

EvilDonnyboy

Banned
Jul 28, 2000
1,103
0
0
The cpu has still gotta do stuff like physics, sound, ai, software modems, running the windows in the background, background programs including the system tray and more.

besides, the T&L engines still isn't perfect.
 

SilverBack

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,622
0
0
Well in MDK2 which uses T&L the difference is dramatic, frames rates increased by 10 to 15 %. Thats like having a cpu upgrade.. Also here's some news:

"Today at ECTS, NVIDIA and Epic Games announced a strategic partnership where Epic's upcoming next-generation products will take full advantage of NVIDIA's latest technology, more specifically the GeForce 256 and GeForce 2 GTS chipsets. NVIDIA also goes on to say that they will "...work more closely with Epic Games to ensure current and future Unreal Engine products run their absolute best on NVIDIA hardware." Thanks David! On a somewhat related note, The Adrenaline Vault is reporting that NVIDIA's chipsets will be demonstrating over one hundred games at this year's ECTS."

100 games eh? Shows what the developers think about T&L on video cards. BTW there hasn't been any mention yet of any game using the 3Dfx T-Buffer effects.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
"For those of you that have GeForce cards, how useful have you found hardware T&L to be?"

Extrodinarily, though I work with 3D visualization and play games, the former benefits much more then the latter at this time.

"Nvidia claims that it takes a substantial amount of processing off the CPU freeing it to do other things (and hence increasing framerate), but, some cards that don't have hardware T&L like the Voodoo4/5 seem to perform comprably."

Most games don't support hardware T&L, which is needed for it to be used. The V4/5 don't perform comparably in games that utilize hardware T&L properly. Under MDK2 you can pick to run the same level of quality graphics for both hardware T&L boards and software(hardware T&L as of right now only supports the most computationaly intensive type of lighting, specular) based ones and when tested with specular lighting enabled for both the GF2 is roughly 300% faster, give or take.

"Also, the GeForce scales upwards a lot more on CPU's than it should, implying that that the hardware T&L isn't kicking in as much as it should be (if it were, framerates would be the same on a P2-300 as they would be on an Athlon 1Ghz)."

Most games devote about 25%-35% of CPU time to T&L, the rest is running the other portions of game code. Now think of it this way, if you have a 500MHZ processor and would push 100FPS with software T&L, hardware T&L will give you roughly 25 extra FPS, but a 1GHZ processor would likely gain an additional 50FPS because it can process the game code twice as fast as it still has no need to handle T&L. This makes it appear as if scaling happens moreso on hardware boards then software which can be argued, but it is because T&L is in fact working so well. If this didn't happen then T&L would likely be a bottleneck.

The real benefits will come when developers use the extra power that T&L can offer. MDK2 starts to scratch the surface, but it still only utilizes additional lighting, not added poly counts which overall would probably make the game look even better. Evolva is another title that I would suggest you check out if you want to see what some of the new features on that GF2 MX of yours has, it utilizes not only additional polygon complexity but also Dot3 bump mapping. May not be everyone's thing in gameplay(it is odd, though I like it), but the grapihcs with either a GF based board or Radeon are very impressive.
 

AxelRose

Member
Sep 3, 2000
94
0
0
T&L Definitly rocks! Right now it is like 32 bit color was when first introduced, a neat feature to have, that wasnt quite ready for prime time. Now T&L is getting big, and like the others said, play MDK2 and enable T&L and bench it, and then disable it and bench it. Big difference indeed. Kinda like when you run glide only games on a voodoo card

T-Buffer is so lame imo, just stick with T&L

Anything that does its work though openGL is the future and T&L does!
 

jpprod

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 1999
2,373
0
0
I have a SDR GeForce, and I've found T&L to be extremely useful in 3D modelling apps which support OpenGL. Scenes with hundreds of thousands of polygons are no longer a pain to handle if you add a couple of light sources (though big textures still tend to kill editor framerates), and 3D models are much more comfortable to work with when realtime 3D preview works realtime literally.

Not to mention it ups 3dmark2000 and Quake3 timedemo scores nicely
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,000
126
T&L makes a huge difference in speed ,and scenes can be rendered with much more polygons than normal.

Look at these benchmarks of MDK2.

Usually the original GF (army green bars) is about the same or slightly slower than the V5 5500 (grey bars) in Q3. But in the T&L game MDK2, the GF demolishes the V5 in every test despite being a generation behind. Such is the large difference the T&L makes.

Make no mistake, 3dfx are going to slip behind even further in performance because of their ignorance.
 

nippyjun

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,447
0
0
It's funny how the anti-3dfx keep pointing to the Epic/Nvidia agreement and t&l info. The next gen 3dfx card will have t&l so what's the big deal?
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,154
58
91
<<It's funny how the anti-3dfx keep pointing to the Epic/Nvidia agreement and t&amp;l info. The next gen 3dfx card will have t&amp;l so what's the big deal? >>

No big deal, but it does mean you can buy a variety of GF's and already have T&amp;L support waiting and ready for all these new games coming out, but you'll have to wait for the 3DFX card w/T&amp;l. And looking at the huge delays on the V5 and current delays STILL on the V6, who even knows when they'll get around to making a new card with T&amp;L?
Bottom line is, when they do, they will effectively make obsolete the V5 family. That would piss me off if I had one.
I'd still like to test drive a V6 regardless.



 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,000
126
BTW, how do I turn hardware T&amp;L on? Or is turned on by default?

There is nothing to turn on. If a game is designed for T&amp;L, it will automatically take advantage of it.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |