Using Home theatre for PC ?

[vektor5]

I just decided to go with a home theatre setup for surround sound rather than PC Speakers.
I've taken advice on what to purchase from this thread
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=30&threadid=1682481&forumid=1
I just realized that if I want to use this for my PC sound(and I do) gaming, music and movies ect. I think I'll need to use a digital out which my new X-Fi Extreme music does not have. Please excuse my ignorance but I have no experience in this arena. I've already ordered the Fluance SX-HTB+ speakers(impulsive purchase) Can I get these to work with my current setup for gaming, music ect. My motherboard supports up to 7.1 surround and has SPDIF out.
The X-Fi card just has 3 analog outs and a digital Mic in. Please help me out. I'm under the 14 days so I think I can still return it if it won't work. I could get an audigy for instance.
Thanks in advance for any help or tips you can provide. Sincerely , Vektor5

 

[JonnyBlaze]

FlexiJack (Performing a 3-in-1 function, Digital Out / Line In / Microphone) via 3.50 mm minijack

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/pr...=1&subcategory=208&product=14066&nav=1

that page says it has digital out.

 

[vektor5]

Thanks for the reply!
Excellent, so that would do it then ? I would need a minijack to RCA converter (assuming there is one)...you see I know nothing about this.
I currently have Monsoon MM-1000 2.1 speakers with one minijack.
I've never owned a home stereo just pc and boombox, I'm really wanting an audio upgrade.

 

[stlcardinals]

You will need to hook those speakers up to a receiver in order to use them. You would then be able to hook up your sound card to the receiver.

 

[vektor5]

Yeah I'm going to probably get an Onkyo TX-SR502 refurbished. And then a Dayton 12" Sub. How will I go about hooking my PC up to the reciever though, and also achieve surround sound.
will that single digital out handle it all? Normally there are 3 outs to the speaker. Please excuse my ignorance and thank you for your invaluable advice.
I'ts a bummer if I have to use that flexi Jack as I'll no longer be able to use my microphone in games it would seem.

 

[stlcardinals]

You will need a cable like the following.....

RCA Spdif to 3.5 mini-jack

 

[imported_Nirvana]

I've heard that it's not a safe idea to use a 3.5 mini to RCA cable, that it could potentially damage your receiver. I've seen recommendations to use a direct optical cable instead, and if there's no optical out on the soundcard, to use an add-in card/converter which allows optical out.

 

[JonnyBlaze]

also remember, you only get dolby digital or dts surround out from the digital port. for games makes sure your receiver has 6 channel inputs so you can run analong lines as well.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

If you're going to use the X-Fi for a digital connection, return it and get your money back.

The reason to buy it is for it's surround processing and clean analog signals.

If you use it for digital, it's not going to do anything a $25 Chaintech AV-710 doesn't.

You're going to get stereo for music and games.... and 5.1 for things that are DD encoded like movies.

If you get a receiver that has 5.1 analog input (6 channel direct) then you can hook it up via analog (at least for gaming) and then you'll benefit from the card's gaming ability.

 

[alcoholbob]

YoYo is right...

If you want to get an expensive sound card for a receiver, it's for pure ANALOG PASSTHROUGH.

If you are going to use digital out to your receiver, note two things first.

1) Does you receiver have a better DAC than your sound card? If not, going digital is not going to sound any better than going straight analog multichannel input. Under $500, I would say going a pure digitally amplified receiver is the only way you can be sure the receiver has a better DAC than a high end analog sound card, like the XiFi.

2) You need a sound card that has a digital out, such as toslink or coaxial. The stereo minijack digital outs on cards like the Audigy 2 or low end XiFi should not be used to to passthrough to a receiver. The reason is, a normal SPDIF line out is 75ohms and 0.5v. The TTL Digital found on Creative Digital outs are +5V and designed for Creative digital decoders for their multimedia systems. A lot of people have found out the hard way by burning out high end speakers with what they thought was a cheaper alternative to buying a REAL digital out.

You should like for something that does DDL encoding, that way you will get surround sound in games.

 

[vektor5]

Oh bummer that sounds inconvenient I'll have to change wiring when moving to gaming. I don't think that the TX-SR502 has 6channel inputs. There is no opticalout on the soundcard either.
I'm beginning to think perhaps I should have settled for the Z-5500's I got a little hasty in ordering the speakers (Fluance SX-HTB+) as they go up 50.00 in price today. They revised them to the pluses on the 8th and continued the old pricing until the 19th. So I jumped. I wonder if the audigies have an optical out. I really got sold on all the X-Fi stuff and since I was building a new box and my old card was a soundblaster live I went with the X-FI.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: vektor5
Oh bummer that sounds inconvenient I'll have to change wiring when moving to gaming. I don't think that the TX-SR502 has 6channel inputs. There is no opticalout on the soundcard either.
I'm beginning to think perhaps I should have settled for the Z-5500's I got a little hasty in ordering the speakers (Fluance SX-HTB+) as they go up 50.00 in price today. They revised them to the pluses on the 8th and continued the old pricing until the 19th. So I jumped. I wonder if the audigies have an optical out. I really got sold on all the X-Fi stuff and since I was building a new box and my old card was a soundblaster live I went with the X-FI.

You wouldn't have to change wiring, just change some settings... you could even have the X-Fi do its own decoding for DD stuff if you wanted to.

I think the 502 does have 5.1 analog input but it would be best to double check (ecost says it has 5.1 input).

 

[alcoholbob]

I don't know of any receiver that's non-stereo and claims to be 5.1...that doesn't have 6-channel direct.

http://www.ixbt.com/news/dvd/pics/onkyo-tx-sr502-rear.jpg

Looks like the SR502 has them. With something like the 502s I would recommend going all analog anyway, since I don't think the quality of Onkyo DACs are going to be comparable to Creative's.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
I don't know of any receiver that's non-stereo and claims to be 5.1...that doesn't have 6-channel direct.

http://www.ixbt.com/news/dvd/pics/onkyo-tx-sr502-rear.jpg

Looks like the SR502 has them. With something like the 502s I would recommend going all analog anyway, since I don't think the quality of Onkyo DACs are going to be comparable to Creative's.

Most HTIB type sets don't have a 5.1 analog connection from what I've seen.

Oh, and a lot of budget receivers don't have it either.

Even low end big names like Denon tend to not have it I think.

 

[vektor5]

So if I just go from the analog minijacks off of the X-Fi to RCA Jacks and into the 6-channel Direct I should be set ? I think thats what I'm hearing. If so then I think this will work great. I can use the card for decoding movies and gaming ect....It sounds as if it will work!! wOOt! Here I go getting excited again...lol

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

As far as I know, everything should work out.

There are a couple issues with running analog to a receiver... like you don't get to set crossovers in your receiver as the receiver doesn't really do anything to the signal (just amplifies it) but if you get a sub with a built in crossover that's not going to be a big deal... also some people get a little noise when running analog rather than digital, but I've only done this on a very limited basis with a TBSC a while ago and I don't remember if I had any issues with it.

 

[vektor5]

Well I'll be crossing my fingers. hehe
I don't know whats with Creative. My motherboard has more Audio i/o options by far than it has. I've got center, rear, side , standard(green) out, mic in,(blue) out,Spdif out and in totaling 8.this X-Fi has 4 plus a game port type connect.
I should almost just use my mobo. Although I'm sure it wouldn't sound as good.

 

[alcoholbob]

However, in 6-channel direct, a sub is useless unless there is an LFE channel. In other words, no bass for most games or 2-channel music. Games, because as I understand it, most games do not have an analog LFE channel, and music, for the same reason--no LFE channel.

There are two ways to get around this.

1) Get a stereo-mini jack splitter. One end will go to a minijack to RCA converter for the receiver, the other to a minijack to RCA for the sub.

2) Turn on stereo surround (which should create a stereo signal from the rear channel output of your sound card). Get a minijack to RCA converter and send that to the sub. This is less recommended idea since this will seriously screw up gaming : )

 

[vektor5]

Wow thanks for the heads up. So it seems there is no elegant way to use a home theatre system for a PC. :~( I'm confused about the splitter do you mean to say that one signal from the card will be split between the reviever and the sub ? In other words the sub would be powered by it's own amplifier and just recieve one of the same signals being sent to the reciever?
I'm suprised that there is no seamless way to do this even if I were to return the X-Fi for another card? There really is no digital gaming solution of quality ? I sould probably just get the vreative gigaworks and be done with it, but I know I'd be getting far superior sound through an HT setup, one which I could also use as a the home theatre for which it was meant.
Again I really appreciate all the help you're saving me many headaches and trouble.

 

[alcoholbob]

An HTPC is a tricky thing to setup, and there are some compromises to make, although you will never lose audio quality for one thing.

Watching movies through 6-channel direct means you will have less bass than normal. Regularly for home theater, you receiver takes a Dolby Digital/DTS signal, and crosses over all the bass from a fixed number (say 80 - 100hz) and feeds it to the subwoofer. That means your subwoofer plays all the bass for all your speakers. In 6-channel direct, your subwoofer will ONLY be playing the LFE channel. The LFE channel is basically bass from all channels + 10db. However, the loss of regular bass from all normal channels amounts to -15db (assuming your speakers are that anaemic in the bass department compared to your subwoofer). This means you effectively lose half (or more) of the bass in a movie in 6-channel direct when your soundcard is processing dolby digital/DTS to 6-analog channels (a soundcard is incapable of setting crossovers so that bass goes to your subwoofer, so WHATEVER YOUR SPEAKERS CANT PLAY IS JUST LOST.).

Is half the bass that bad? Personally I don't mind. Receivers have +bass function after all.

What this effectively means is that in 6-channel audio, your only problem is that your subwoofer will not be active unless you are playing something that has a subwoofer channel. However, since you have Floorstanders now, they are perfectly capable of playing deep bass. Compared to computer speakers, your bass is a lot greater now. So the only "problem" is that you have less bass then people who've spent more money than you : P

As long as you can live with that, you should be alright. I only mention this as a problem for "bass"-heads. Techinically subwoofers should not be employed in music use since the bass is out of phase anyway. If it was like in the movie theathers, each speaker has its own subwoofer (that's why in home dolby digital your subwoofer plays LFE+bass for all channels. It's because unlike in the movie theaters, you DON'T have a sub for each speaker). This is less than optimal. But if you are a bass head and don't care if your bass is time-aligned...then its a bad thing : P

"I'm suprised that there is no seamless way to do this even if I were to return the X-Fi for another card? There really is no digital gaming solution of quality ?"

So in closing, there is no elegant way of making your subwoofer play when its not asked to. You can buy a DDL capable card, like the Blue Gears X-mystique ($90) or the Turtle Beach Monegro ($80). That's probably the best solution if you HAVE to have your subwoofer running at all times, because then you can set your own crossover point.

So
1) You can live without sub on all the time
2) You can't, go get a DDL sound card. Be warned though , DDL sound cards don't support EAX3/EAX5.

So it's between the sub vs EAX3/5

 

[vektor5]

Well that pretty much spells it out thank you astralite. I'll have to think on it. In reality I won't be able to run a sub all the time anyhow considering that there are others in the world who would rather not hear thump thump all the time hehe. I could also get one of those cards. Thank you very much. I'm going to stick with what I'm doing and work on this ht setup.
Have a great night! , Vektor5

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
However, in 6-channel direct, a sub is useless unless there is an LFE channel. In other words, no bass for most games or 2-channel music. Games, because as I understand it, most games do not have an analog LFE channel, and music, for the same reason--no LFE channel.

There are two ways to get around this.

1) Get a stereo-mini jack splitter. One end will go to a minijack to RCA converter for the receiver, the other to a minijack to RCA for the sub.

2) Turn on stereo surround (which should create a stereo signal from the rear channel output of your sound card). Get a minijack to RCA converter and send that to the sub. This is less recommended idea since this will seriously screw up gaming : )

I didn't know using analog was this troublesome.

From a few other users I've talked to it didn't seem like they had problems running 6 channel direct from their soundcards.

 

[Poohbee]

Check this sound card out.. Text

go to BlueGears website that has reviews, specs, and images.

more info can be had about HTPC's at HTPCNews.com

also

AVS Forums

I just bought that card after reading all the reviews, etc. I originally wanted to use my Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Pro as the sound card for the HTPC but I read that it only has analog outs. If you want to use the optical or SPDIF coax you'll be able to only hear surround sound when watching dvd movies but not when you listen to AC3 encoded mp3's, movies, or games. In fact, if you are expecting to hear ac3 when playing games you will only hear stereo.

yeah Sux.. =I

 

[frankgomez75]

I will have to agree. Go to bluegears.com

I have the X-Mystique 7.1 sound card.

Music is superb!!!
DVDs are amazing....
Games play in 5.1 true surround sound
Supports EAX but not EAX3 and EAX5.... who cares... Playing Half Life 2 on my 55" DLP at 1280x720 in 5.1 surround on my home theater system ROX!!!!

Dolby Digital Live is a big bonus too.

Good luck!

 

[vektor5]

Thanks for the Tip. I just returned my x-fi and purchased an X-Mystique as per your recommendation. 140.00 back for the X-Fi 78.29 spent on the X-Mystique with free shipping what a great deal!! thank you my I feel much better with my choices today...at peace. :~) btw My Fluance SXHTB+ models shipped already!! wow 1 day thats impressive and I also got a great deal on them as the price today for those speakers is 299.00 it was 259.00 yesterday. They revised them and grandfathered the old price for two weeks so I feel lucky, thanks to anandtech this forum has been great to me a big thanks to everyone who helped.

Oh the X-mystique deal is @ buy.com free shipping + a 10% off on site coupon = $78.29