UT2K4 novice thoughts?

heelside23

Member
Jan 12, 2006
187
0
0
After playing some Halo 2 lately, I decided to try UT2K4

Quick take:
newbies don't stand much chance against the vets, and the game is very fast paced

Couple questions:
What's the best way to play this game and get better before becoming discouraged by continous ownage?

Does BF2 have as great a disparity between noobs and pros?

I read a lot of good things about bf2, so i'm considering that game instead
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
Play red orchestra instead!

I bought ut2k4 just for that mod.

EDIT: all FPS have the noob gets owned stage, before said noob learns the gameplay (guns, physics nuances) and the maps. Just play more and you'll advance.
 

heelside23

Member
Jan 12, 2006
187
0
0
true, especially with FPS, the noobs always get hammered. At the same time, I keep playing more rounds and finding myself having fun despite the spread in the final scores. I guess that satisfaction of finally killing the guy that has killed you 10 times already keeps it entertaining.
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
Thing with the slower paced WW2 style games (like Red Orchestra and CoD) is they're easier to pick up and do well in, usually, and yet remain just as difficult to master.
 

duragezic

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
11,234
4
81
I would say you would get much more frustrated and discouraged in BF2 than UT2k4.

Have you played any other deathmatch, fast-paced PC games? I played such a ridiculous amount of Quake1,2,3, Half-life, UT, basically all the deathmatch FPS games that I can pick up UT2k4 without much practice.

And actually of all the games I've played UT2k4 doesn't seem to have a huge disparity between newbs and pros.

I would say stick to Onslaught and Team DM games where you can stick around your team and not be 1on1 vs. some l33t lamer jumping all over the place firing rockets. That way you can learn the maps and get good with the weapons by just sticking a little behind and trying to fire off helpful shots to injure or kill guys.

And the single player practice against bots might be helpful. There's plenty of difficulty levels. You probably just need to get used to the fast-paced DM style considering you've come from playing Gaylo 2.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
i loaded up the original UT a little while ago and joined a server. everyone was like going across the whole map with the translocator. you couldn't hit anyone and they always killed you. i didn't play long. no way i could compete.

red orchestra isn't an fps. its a soldier SIM. regular fps players will not like this game.

CoD2 is fun but I think there's either something majorly wrong with hit boxes or its full of cheaters.

bf2 just sucks
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
0
I'll echo what duragezic said and recommend playing in TDM and ONS for a while until you get better at movement and weapon selection, and ONS of course has vehicles. Also, spend some time spectating the better players on the server and see how they move and react in situations.

I'd also suggest spending some time on your keybinds so that you have your best weapons easily and readily accessible. There's nothing like instantly pulling out a certain weapon to deal with a threat rather than having to scroll through several to find the one you're looking for.
 

heelside23

Member
Jan 12, 2006
187
0
0
Thanks for the replies. I decided not to get bf2, since I like UT so far. I sometimes observe the guys on the servers who consistently win the matches, and the first thing I noticed was the amount of jumping from side to side they do. It's like they never touch the ground. While this makes it harder to hit them, is this a good strategy? I like the fact that there isn't a respawn time, so you can get right back into the match asap.
 

PseudoKnight

Senior member
Oct 18, 2004
303
0
71
The nice thing about the UT games is that they have pretty decent bots to practice with if you're embarassed at all or just want to have some quick fun killing stuff. Obviously playing with other people is more fun and better practice in the long run, but bots are worth trying out for practice too. Most games you don't have the option.

Oh, and as someone else mentioned, don't forget mods!

I'm a big fan of CTF. UT just wasn't built for Onslaught type gameplay. It'll be better in UT2007 though.

 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
My advice:
Getting pounded relentlessly isnt going to teach you anything. Play Instant Action against bots.
Keep raising the difficulty until you get beat. Then practice, practice, practice until you can raise the difficulty again. Most of the guys that nail you have played thousands of rounds.
If you can train yourself slowly you stand a chance. Of course humans react a little differently than the CPU, but the challenge factor is the same. When you get good against an AI your online play will also improve.

Also, it may be good for you to specialize in one game type at a time.
Set up Deathmatch and make a maplist of everything you have. (I recommend downloading the community expansion pack.)

Play through all the DM maps until you become familiar with them and the locations of goodies.
Most of these leet bastards know exactly which routes to take in order to find the best powerups quickly. They also know where noobs will wander by and kill them efficiently.

EDIT:
AHHHHHH CRAP!
PseudoKnight beat me to the punch!
I have to practice against the forum bots some more.
 

heelside23

Member
Jan 12, 2006
187
0
0
haha, thanks guys... the tips are much appreciated. I realize my original post was something along the lines of "how to I keep from being such a noob in UT?"

I think the bot suggestion is great. I'm also doing the team DM senario to get some practice. Watching some good players as a spectator makes me realize exactly what you're talking about shortylickens, when you say they know the best routes. The last guy i watched was jumping off walls and skipping seamlessly through the cracks of the map to hit other players.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
UT2004 is far more complex than many would give credit for. I will try to explain some of what I have learned over the years.

Time is the only way to get good at UT2003/2004. Play the game a lot. Fighting bots helps, but do not expect it to turn you into a master. Play a good share of the various modes. Free for all deathmatches are probably the best way to improve your skills. It is necessary to understand that in UT2004, there are two categories of your skill. Offensive and defensive. Offensive skill is obviously your ability to attack the opponent, while defensive skill is obviously your ability to survive. You need both to be able to handle the more difficult opponents that you may face.

The most common type of player is one with a good offensive skill and little to none on the defensive side. Examples include players who stand still and keep shooting shockrifle combos at you until you die, or players who have impressive aim with a few weapons and just shoot at you relentlessly. Think; Deathmatch to 25 kills, and the leading guy has 25 kills and 25 or more deaths. A much less common type of player is one who has a high defensive skill and low attack skill. These players usually have a very small amount of deaths in a game and also a very low level of kills comparatively. A good player has lots of skill and knowledge in both. For example, in the games I played with Fatal1ty(One of the higher skilled players) he would usually win with 75 kills before opponents had even 20 and have under 5 deaths. That shows that he can both survive attacks well and dish out quick and effective attacks.

Learn how each weapon works and when the right time to use each occurs. Every single weapon has strengths and weaknesses and the proper place to be used. Do not just get good with the rocket launcher or minigun and be satisfied with that like so many players do. Learn to be able to kill all of your opponents quickly with any weapon, including the shield gun and bio rifle. When you have multiple weapons, never use just one in combat. A great technique that is used by the more skilled players(Fatal1ty for one) is to have the lightning gun out 24/7, then when you see an enemy, get a quick shot on them with it,(This shot will usually do 70+ damage) and then switch to a quick attack(instant or near instant) weapon such as the shock rifle or minigun and finish off their last little bit of health with that. Most weapons are not instant shots, as a result of this, you must learn and know the time it takes for your projectiles to reach the enemy. Also, chances are, your enemy will not be in the same place when the projectiles land as when you first shot them. Learn enemy movement. To become skillful and effective, it is necessary to learn how to predict where the enemy will be. Most players dodge to a certain pattern, because of this, you can quickly and effectively know where they are going to dodge to when they see you fire a rocket or another weapon. Shooting at where the enemy will be is usually more effective than shooting at where the enemy currently is.

Defensive skill, contrary to popular belief, is far more complex to achieve, and can only be achieved effectively if you already have a good level of knowledge on how the weapons, jumping mechanics, and physics in general work in the game. ALWAYS pick up health vials and adrenaline when you see them, even if they are out of your way. Always pick up energy shield and extra ammo and weapons(Even if it is a weapon you do not much care for). Try to move in a circuit around the map. Always arive at the location of health vials, adrenaline, energy shields, and double damage just as they appear. Doing this correctly, you can obtain a monopoly or so to speak of the map. You will end up always having more health than your opponent and usually more ammo as well. Never underestimate the shield gun. If an enemy shows up out of nowhere with double damage and a minigun, you will usually have less than two seconds to decide the battle. Getting out the shield gun and using the shield can give you the time necessary to jump behind a corner and whip out a proper weapon that could get rid of the opponent in one blast. Take time to learn what I mentioned above. 99% of players do not do any of what I just said, and thusly, they usually get their ends handed to them playing against a player who knows how to do what I have been saying. Next up that needs to be learned is effective dodging. Dodging, as you know, is simply avoiding weapon fire. However, it is a bit more complex than what one would think at first glance. When you dodge, the opponent has to adjust their aimer accordingly to counter your dodge. When you dodge, you want to get to a location that will not only be out of the blast radius of whatever weapon is being fired at you, but you also want to be able to successfully continue dodging. Many people I play against will dodge my first few rockets, only to lead themselves into a corner, and thusly, their demise. Movement is also another skill that is necessary to be learned if you want to be effective. Learn to move faster than everyone else. Dodge jump forward and then jump again before landing. This type of movement is radically faster than ordinary running and will allow you to put considerable distance between(Or dramatically reduce the distance) you and your opponent. Always place yourself in the hardest place to be hit. The shield gun also has the impressive ability to completely reverse the direction of some projectiles going for it. While I have not mastered it yet, there are those who have. I believe you have to dodge forward and have the projectile hit the shield at just the right moment for you to turn it around. Learn to dodge jump off of walls and such as well. Wall dodge jumping is extremely fast and very effective for getting out of the way of an attack.

I hope this helps a bit for those looking at getting into UT2004. If anyone would like to play sometime, I would be up for a game.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: heelside23
Thanks for the replies. I decided not to get bf2, since I like UT so far. I sometimes observe the guys on the servers who consistently win the matches, and the first thing I noticed was the amount of jumping from side to side they do. It's like they never touch the ground. While this makes it harder to hit them, is this a good strategy? I like the fact that there isn't a respawn time, so you can get right back into the match asap.

a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary one. the trick to doing well in most fps games is to keep moving. games like UT don't have any kind of penalty for moving and jumping that i am aware of.

some of the more modern games like bf2, cod2, graw, etc. try to make the game more realistic by lowering your accuracy if you are moving and shooting at the same time. like in CoD2, i can be like 3 steps behind an enemy that is running away from me. i can be running right behind him and not have a single shot land.
 

fire400

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2005
5,204
21
81
Originally posted by: dguy6789
UT2004 is far more complex than many would give credit for. I will try to explain some of what I have learned over the years.

Time is the only way to get good at UT2003/2004. Play the game a lot. Fighting bots helps, but do not expect it to turn you into a master. Play a good share of the various modes. Free for all deathmatches are probably the best way to improve your skills. It is necessary to understand that in UT2004, there are two categories of your skill. Offensive and defensive. Offensive skill is obviously your ability to attack the opponent, while defensive skill is obviously your ability to survive. You need both to be able to handle the more difficult opponents that you may face.

The most common type of player is one with a good offensive skill and little to none on the defensive side. Examples include players who stand still and keep shooting shockrifle combos at you until you die, or players who have impressive aim with a few weapons and just shoot at you relentlessly. Think; Deathmatch to 25 kills, and the leading guy has 25 kills and 25 or more deaths. A much less common type of player is one who has a high defensive skill and low attack skill. These players usually have a very small amount of deaths in a game and also a very low level of kills comparatively. A good player has lots of skill and knowledge in both. For example, in the games I played with Fatal1ty(One of the higher skilled players) he would usually win with 75 kills before opponents had even 20 and have under 5 deaths. That shows that he can both survive attacks well and dish out quick and effective attacks.

Learn how each weapon works and when the right time to use each occurs. Every single weapon has strengths and weaknesses and the proper place to be used. Do not just get good with the rocket launcher or minigun and be satisfied with that like so many players do. Learn to be able to kill all of your opponents quickly with any weapon, including the shield gun and bio rifle. When you have multiple weapons, never use just one in combat. A great technique that is used by the more skilled players(Fatal1ty for one) is to have the lightning gun out 24/7, then when you see an enemy, get a quick shot on them with it,(This shot will usually do 70+ damage) and then switch to a quick attack(instant or near instant) weapon such as the shock rifle or minigun and finish off their last little bit of health with that. Most weapons are not instant shots, as a result of this, you must learn and know the time it takes for your projectiles to reach the enemy. Also, chances are, your enemy will not be in the same place when the projectiles land as when you first shot them. Learn enemy movement. To become skillful and effective, it is necessary to learn how to predict where the enemy will be. Most players dodge to a certain pattern, because of this, you can quickly and effectively know where they are going to dodge to when they see you fire a rocket or another weapon. Shooting at where the enemy will be is usually more effective than shooting at where the enemy currently is.

Defensive skill, contrary to popular belief, is far more complex to achieve, and can only be achieved effectively if you already have a good level of knowledge on how the weapons, jumping mechanics, and physics in general work in the game. ALWAYS pick up health vials and adrenaline when you see them, even if they are out of your way. Always pick up energy shield and extra ammo and weapons(Even if it is a weapon you do not much care for). Try to move in a circuit around the map. Always arive at the location of health vials, adrenaline, energy shields, and double damage just as they appear. Doing this correctly, you can obtain a monopoly or so to speak of the map. You will end up always having more health than your opponent and usually more ammo as well. Never underestimate the shield gun. If an enemy shows up out of nowhere with double damage and a minigun, you will usually have less than two seconds to decide the battle. Getting out the shield gun and using the shield can give you the time necessary to jump behind a corner and whip out a proper weapon that could get rid of the opponent in one blast. Take time to learn what I mentioned above. 99% of players do not do any of what I just said, and thusly, they usually get their ends handed to them playing against a player who knows how to do what I have been saying. Next up that needs to be learned is effective dodging. Dodging, as you know, is simply avoiding weapon fire. However, it is a bit more complex than what one would think at first glance. When you dodge, the opponent has to adjust their aimer accordingly to counter your dodge. When you dodge, you want to get to a location that will not only be out of the blast radius of whatever weapon is being fired at you, but you also want to be able to successfully continue dodging. Many people I play against will dodge my first few rockets, only to lead themselves into a corner, and thusly, their demise. Movement is also another skill that is necessary to be learned if you want to be effective. Learn to move faster than everyone else. Dodge jump forward and then jump again before landing. This type of movement is radically faster than ordinary running and will allow you to put considerable distance between(Or dramatically reduce the distance) you and your opponent. Always place yourself in the hardest place to be hit. The shield gun also has the impressive ability to completely reverse the direction of some projectiles going for it. While I have not mastered it yet, there are those who have. I believe you have to dodge forward and have the projectile hit the shield at just the right moment for you to turn it around. Learn to dodge jump off of walls and such as well. Wall dodge jumping is extremely fast and very effective for getting out of the way of an attack.

I hope this helps a bit for those looking at getting into UT2004. If anyone would like to play sometime, I would be up for a game.

have you ever taken anyone out with an Avril even if they weren't in a vehicle?

what's your take on loading up rockets: 1,2,3 and then spiraling the shot VS a twin/triple spread?

you ever see a guy get ganged up by 5 good players and still survive, killing all of them shortly after?
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
I have taken a guy out with an Avril outside of a vehicle, but not often. I used to play Onslaught a lot, but have been slacking a bit in it lately

There is a bit of strategy to the rocket technique. Using the spread shot is harder to dodge, as you have more surface area to the blast. However, because you have more surface area to the blast, the damage is spread out, meaning that even if you do hit the opponent, you may not kill them. Having the three rockets in a spiral concentrates the attack into a smaller area. By being concentrated, you have to be more accurate with the attack, but if you hit, you have a far greater chance of completely eliminating them with that one attack. I personally prefer the spiral. When I use the rocket launcher, I prefer to eliminate the enemy right away without going through the whole dance of dodging and taking damage.

I have seen some incredible people in UT2004. I have seen two people that are so far beyond my comprehension that it is just unreal. Fatal1ty is one, the other is some guy named Dinosaur. Fatal1ty is incredible skillwise. Fighting in a free for all deathmatch to 75 kills with fifteen or so players all of whom could probably take on godlike bots, Fatal1ty usually had 75 frags before anyone had 20, and he died less than five times most of the time, sometimes even not dieing at all. Then there is this Dinosaur guy. I thought Fatal1ty was the best I had ever seen until I played against this guy. I could not kill this guy even once no matter what. Even when I had everything going for me(Maximum health, armor, and lots of ammo on my weapons of choice), the guy took me out of the equation very quickly and seemingly with relative ease while fighting other guys at the same time. To get an idea of how good these guys are, I would say that I am probably able to best 98% or so of the UT2004 population. I can dispatch godlike bots with relative ease. However, for people to exist that are THAT much better than I am is absolutely insane. Me fighting against those two guys is like putting a novice bot up against a godlike bot.
 
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