Utah planning to cut 12th grade altogether to save money

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
16,813
13
0
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-utah-school15-2010feb15,0,906102.story

The proposal by state Sen. Chris Buttars would chip away at Utah's $700-million shortfall. He's since offered a toned-down version: Just make senior year optional.

By DeeDee Correll February 15, 2010




Reporting from Denver - At Utah's West Jordan High School, the halls have swirled lately with debate over the merits of 12th grade:

Is it a waste of time? Are students ready for the real world at 17?

For student body president J.D. Williams, 18, the answer to both questions is a resounding no. "I need this year," he said, adding that most of his classmates felt the same way.

The sudden buzz over the relative value of senior year stems from a recent proposal by state Sen. Chris Buttars that Utah make a dent in its budget gap by eliminating the 12th grade.

The notion quickly gained some traction among supporters who agreed with the Republican's assessment that many seniors frittered away their final year of high school, but faced vehement opposition from other quarters, including in his hometown of West Jordan.

"My parents are against it," Williams said. "All the teachers at the school are against it. I'm against it."

Buttars has since toned down the idea, suggesting instead that senior year become optional for students who complete their required credits early. He estimated the move could save up to $60 million, the Salt Lake Tribune reported.

The proposal comes as the state faces a $700-million shortfall and reflects the creativity -- or desperation -- of lawmakers.

"You're looking at these budget gaps where lawmakers have to use everything and anything to try to resolve them," said Todd Haggerty, a policy associate with the National Conference of State Legislatures. "It's left lawmakers with very unpopular decisions."

In Utah, the opt-out proposal could prove more politically feasible.

"The bottom line is saving taxpayer dollars while improving options for students," said state Sen. Howard A. Stephenson, a Republican and co-chairman of the Public Education Appropriations Subcommittee. "The more options we give to students to accelerate, the more beneficial it is to students and taxpayers."

But some education officials say they don't think the plan represents a change.

"We've always had an option in place for early graduation," said Debra Roberts, chairwoman of the Utah Board of Education, adding that it was OK to give students the choice to graduate early, but that they shouldn't be pushed to leave.

About 200 students a year take advantage of early graduation, said Brenda Hales, state associate superintendent.

Buttars, who did not respond to calls for comment, has said he would offer incentives to encourage students to graduate early.

Last week, his proposal met with approval from some who praised his efforts to cut costs, if not the plan itself.

"In a really hard economic time, we have to think of new options," said Aleta Taylor, a South Jordan mother of seven, adding that she needed more specifics before supporting the plan.

Whether the plan proves viable, it does raise a valid point about "senioritis," said William Sederburg, the state commissioner of higher education. "The thing that Sen. Buttars tapped into is that too many seniors take the senior year off," he said.

As far as high school senior Williams is concerned, 12th grade is as rewarding as a student wants to make it.

"Senior year hasn't been a waste for me," said Williams, who writes for his school paper, plays lacrosse, sings in two choirs and takes college-level courses. "If you're the type of kid who will slack off, you'd find a way to do that in sophomore or junior year anyway."




clearly this guy isn't sane enough to represent the people.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
While I can see the point, this is terrible, this idea.

But if you have enough credits to graduate and want to move on without your senior year, you should have that option. And maybe as an incentive a little state check or tax deduction for your folks or you for costing the state less.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Depends on the student; I took three ap classes senior year cause with the ap exam about halfway through the second semester those classes became glorified study halls, which went well with the one official study hall on my schedule.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,612
3,458
136
So instead of senioritis they'd have junioritis. Then they'd try to get rid of that. Slippery slope toward the republican goal of eliminating public education and replacing it with vouchers so all American children can go to parochial schools and learn about Jesus.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
So instead of senioritis they'd have junioritis. Then they'd try to get rid of that. Slippery slope toward the republican goal of eliminating public education and replacing it with vouchers so all American children can go to parochial schools and learn about Jesus.

 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
So instead of senioritis they'd have junioritis. Then they'd try to get rid of that. Slippery slope toward the republican goal of eliminating public education and replacing it with vouchers so all American children can go to parochial schools and learn about Jesus.

Idiot!
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,089
12
76
fobot.com
why not just make every high school student (9-12 grades) take the G.E.D. test every semester and kick out everyone that passes it. get all the smart kids off the public dole and get them into college (paid for by ___________ , instead of public tax money)
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
So instead of senioritis they'd have junioritis. Then they'd try to get rid of that. Slippery slope toward the republican goal of eliminating public education and replacing it with vouchers so all American children can go to parochial schools and learn about Jesus.
You should see if you can get some medication to help with that paranoia you've developed.
 

arrfep

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2006
2,318
16
81
I think the knee-jerk reaction is to think it's a preposterous idea, and I did when I read the thread title.
But reading the article and thinking about it, it's really not all that bad if it's just offered as an option. How many people did you know that took a year full of blow-off classes as seniors. If they want to, that's all well and good and part of the high school tradition or whatever.

But if a kid has been accepted to the college he wants, and has taken all of his core classes or whatever, wtf's the point of making him stay around and fill his day with cooking classes and study halls? Let him go to college and become a productive member or society a year earlier.

I think people assume that every kid is just going to drop out of school if he's given the opportunity. As dumb as kids can be when they're 17, I think most of would know that's a bad idea. I actually think that making the senior year optional is one of those choices that would simply make things that were going to happen anyway, happen earlier. Either the kid will have worked hard up to that point and take advantage of this, or he'll not go and go to work or whatever and save the state money. The natural progression will be maintained.
 

ussfletcher

Platinum Member
Apr 16, 2005
2,569
2
81
why not just make every high school student (9-12 grades) take the G.E.D. test every semester and kick out everyone that passes it. get all the smart kids off the public dole and get them into college (paid for by ___________ , instead of public tax money)

I'm pretty certain that in this case, you should probably make them start taking the G.E.D test at the end of 5th grade, then again the end of 8th, and again 10th, 11th and 12th.

I'm pretty sure the majority of people on here could have passed it by the end of 8th grade. Hell, I'm pretty sure all but the most dimwitted of us could have passed it at the end of 5th grade.

I say this in jest, because I took the SAT when I was in 6th grade and beat out like 76% of college-bound seniors.. seriously, the public education system is a joke.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,089
12
76
fobot.com
I say this in jest, because I took the SAT when I was in 6th grade and beat out like 76% of college-bound seniors.. seriously, the public education system is a joke.

so, then we are holding our kids back by being sheeple and leaving them in govt. schools for all those years. sounds like wasted time and wasted tax money. get all the smart kids out of govt. schools sooner and leave the older grades for the dummies
 

coxmaster

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2007
3,017
3
81
I say this in jest, because I took the SAT when I was in 6th grade and beat out like 76% of college-bound seniors.. seriously, the public education system is a joke.

Same boat here.. 22 on the ACT in 7th grade. A few of my teachers that asked me about it couldnt believe it. Especially since a few of them struggled to score a 19/20 when they went to college.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
shrug. i don't see this as a problem or something that is going to save money.

Those that don't want to learn or care about a education are not going to go no matter if it is mandatory or not. I remember my Sr year we had about 1/4th that would never show up some showed up just because they wanted to join the military and needed a high school diploma.

i really have no issue with this.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
What is the deal with the sudden number of posts here where people feel the urge to resize the font for no apparent reason?
 
Last edited:

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
why not just make every high school student (9-12 grades) take the G.E.D. test every semester and kick out everyone that passes it. get all the smart kids off the public dole and get them into college (paid for by ___________ , instead of public tax money)

Yes, this. I could have moved on with my life a few years earlier.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,612
3,458
136
You should see if you can get some medication to help with that paranoia you've developed.

Apparently the truth hurts. According to the article, there is already an existing option for seniors to graduate early.

"We've always had an option in place for early graduation," said Debra Roberts, chairwoman of the Utah Board of Education, adding that it was OK to give students the choice to graduate early, but that they shouldn't be pushed to leave.

The only thing new are the proposed "incentives" (which there is no information on). How much would the incentives cost and how would they keep people from leaving who really need to be there? Or does Utah not really care and is simply for ways to increase the numbers of minimum wagers available to businesses there?

When you see bills like this, always look at who'd benefit the most. It's usually not who they say.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,127
5,657
126
Instead of eliminating 12th Grade, change Education for a Dual Graduation system(making this up, sorta). It would work something like this: One Graduation condition would exist for those wanting to go into a Technical College/Career(Plumbing, Truck Driving, Carpentry, etc) and one Graduation condition being for those desiring to go into University/Professional careers.

Those distinctions already exist, generally speaking, but there is little reason that both choices need 12 Grades. My Dad who spent his childhood in Hungary described a system somewhat like that. There some Students Graduated at 16 in order to pursue Technical careers. Big difference there at that time is that Students didn't actually freely choose their Careers, but that's another issue entirely.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
it's time for across the board public school tuition. pay for your spawn.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
How about we quit paying teachers to sit in classrooms with students who dont want to be taught?
 

DietDrThunder

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,262
326
126
If this is a good idea, then why is it a bad idea to worry about teens dropping out of HS?

Same boat here.. 22 on the ACT in 7th grade. A few of my teachers that asked me about it couldnt believe it. Especially since a few of them struggled to score a 19/20 when they went to college.

I agree, I went to a Catholic elementary school from 1st through 6th grade where I struggled for As and Bs. My parents moved mid way during the year and there wasn't a Catholic elementary anywhere close to where we lived, so I went to public school. I floated through the rest of 6th through the 12th grade, making As and Bs without any real effort. I did my homework in class while the ignorant dolts goofed off, and I didn't even have to bring a book home. Senior year pretty much sucked as I only had electives left to take to get the needed number of credits to graduate. The last semester of my Senior year class schedule comprised of Metal shop, Plastic shop, Auto shop, AP English, and PE. I didn't take many electives early on in HS because they just didn't interest me and I took courses like chemestry, trig, etc., so it would have been nice to graduate early and not have to worry about stupid credits.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
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Utah is also one of the most conservative/Republican states in the nation.

Draw your own conclusions.
 
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