You really believe the school would have allowed the speech? They got several complaints from atheist groups about other prayers. There is no way he would have been approved. The school would have been sued.
It would be his right. I think a lot of people praising this kid are failing to realize how separation of church and state work. The school can not lead a prayer during a graduation ceremony. It is a school function and a prayer led by school officials violates the entire premise behind separation of church and state (public school only obviously). This kid however is welcome to pray in his seat, in the stands, during his speech, whatever. Even being valedictorian doesn't make him an official of the school and thus an official of the state, it's just an honor bestowed upon him. His speech is perfectly welcome to contain religious references if he chooses.
Notice how it talks about him ripping up his pre-approved speech but it nowhere mentions him ever trying to get a version with the prayer approved to begin with. It probably would have been. The only thing schools would generally disallow would be profanity or verbal attacks on the school or students, they may also disallow speech with a clear political agenda as a graduation speech is no place for such a thing.
You really believe the school would have allowed the speech? They got several complaints from atheist groups about other prayers. There is no way he would have been approved. The school would have been sued.
Then again...maybe not.It would be his right. I think a lot of people praising this kid are failing to realize how separation of church and state work. The school can not lead a prayer during a graduation ceremony. It is a school function and a prayer led by school officials violates the entire premise behind separation of church and state (public school only obviously). This kid however is welcome to pray in his seat, in the stands, during his speech, whatever. Even being valedictorian doesn't make him an official of the school and thus an official of the state, it's just an honor bestowed upon him. His speech is perfectly welcome to contain religious references if he chooses.
Notice how it talks about him ripping up his pre-approved speech but it nowhere mentions him ever trying to get a version with the prayer approved to begin with. It probably would have been. The only thing schools would generally disallow would be profanity or verbal attacks on the school or students, they may also disallow speech with a clear political agenda as a graduation speech is no place for such a thing.
You really believe the school would have allowed the speech? They got several complaints from atheist groups about other prayers. There is no way he would have been approved. The school would have been sued.
He wasn't pushing an agenda and he got mostly positive responses.
This is the guileline being used in Texas.Hmmm, interesting. I can understand both sides of the argument from reading that summary. But I don't think it was ruled correctly. I personally don't like when religious people try to interject their faith into everything. But since it's not a representative of the state doing it, I would just choose to ignore it as I don't agree that it violates the ban on prayer in school. The ban is intended to keep schools from indoctrinating children to a religion, it is not intended to keep students from practicing their own faith. I feel this court got the ruling wrong.
Now I could see not allowing a student to give a speech that was a sermon, but including a religious reference should be fine.
Graduation speeches: Graduation speeches cannot contain sectarian or proselytizing language
if the speeches are properly characterized as school sponsored. For example, a California
appellate court permitted a school district to edit the content of commencement addresses
because the content of the speech was sectarian. The court held that the degree of school
sponsorship and control over the speech made it state-sponsored speech. Consequently, to
permit students to deliver sectarian speeches would have violated the Establishment Clause.
Cole v. Oroville Union High Sch. Dist., 228 F.3d 1092 (9th Cir. 2000). See also Lassonde v.decision to edit proselytizing text from a student’s graduation speech).
Pleasanton Unified Sch. Dist., 320 F.3d 979 (9th Cir. 2003) (upholding a school district’s
It would be his right. I think a lot of people praising this kid are failing to realize how separation of church and state work. The school can not lead a prayer during a graduation ceremony. It is a school function and a prayer led by school officials violates the entire premise behind separation of church and state (public school only obviously). This kid however is welcome to pray in his seat, in the stands, during his speech, whatever. Even being valedictorian doesn't make him an official of the school and thus an official of the state, it's just an honor bestowed upon him. His speech is perfectly welcome to contain religious references if he chooses.
Notice how it talks about him ripping up his pre-approved speech but it nowhere mentions him ever trying to get a version with the prayer approved to begin with. It probably would have been. The only thing schools would generally disallow would be profanity or verbal attacks on the school or students, they may also disallow speech with a clear political agenda as a graduation speech is no place for such a thing.
If he had real convictions, he'd tell the school to get bent and refuse to make a speech because of the "no prayer" policy. Instead, he's subjected the school to lawsuits and put the tax payers on the hook for it.
Listen you anti-Christian bigot. Why should the school be sued for this? This is just people being idiots and getting offended by nothing.
Listen you anti-Christian bigot. Why should the school be sued for this? This is just people being idiots and getting offended by nothing.
Somehow I doubt you would be supporting the student's "right to free speech" if he were Muslim and recited a prayer to Allah instead.
You mean, like you getting offended by all things Islamic, no matter how benign?
What would you think of a valedictorian who tore up his speech in favor of saying an Islamic prayer?
I know I'm naive to think this post could possibly attract a response - you always ignore your own hypocrisy on this issue - but I would seriously be interested in your thoughts on this scenario.
You mean, like you getting offended by all things Islamic, no matter how benign?
What would you think of a valedictorian who tore up his speech in favor of saying an Islamic prayer?
I know I'm naive to think this post could possibly attract a response - you always ignore your own hypocrisy on this issue - but I would seriously be interested in your thoughts on this scenario.
Proof or gtfoThe ACLU and atheist groups along with liberals would have no problem but would have a problem with the Christian so there are double standards.
If it's a private, religious school, I'd expect superstitious prayers to imaginary deities to be par for the course. If it's a public school funded with public funds (err), then there isn't any reason for any prayers or anything like that.
It's a school, not a church.
You can pray afterwards, or at home, if such is your compulsion. No right of yours is being stepped upon or infringed upon by not being allowed to force your own personal beliefs on everybody else at a public event.
I say let him. It would be completely inappropriate though especially in a Christian country. I would suspect that people might drown him out.
If he wants an Islamic prayer then let him but Christians and atheists should be able to respond back though.
The ACLU and atheist groups along with liberals would have no problem but would have a problem with the Christian so there are double standards.
But did the school endorse him or did he do it on his own free will?
I say let him. It would be completely inappropriate though especially in a Christian country. I would suspect that people might drown him out.
If he wants an Islamic prayer then let him but Christians and atheists should be able to respond back though.
The ACLU and atheist groups along with liberals would have no problem but would have a problem with the Christian so there are double standards.
And in another state a Native American girl is having her diploma and records held hostage by the school for $1000, her offense was wearing a feather in her cap.....
http://newsone.com/2533086/chelsey-ramer-alabama/
Who cares, he got his 15 minutes of fame and only schmucks like you give a shit.
Obviously you and everyone else who posted cares since you took the time to post in the thread