Valve confirms AMD GPUs will be in pre-built Steam Machines in 2014

[tviceman]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...red-steam-machines-for-2014/?partner=yahootix

Of course AMD will be included, they're 35% of Steam's users choice of graphics. Anyone who thought AMD would be completely locked out of pre-built Steam Machines were silly. But as I have said over, and over, and over, I think the big reason Nvidia was selected exclusively for the beta is because, as usual, their driver and software support team is ahead of AMD - specifically in Linux / SteamOS functionality in this instance. And again, I think with AMD's layoff's over the past few years, seemingly limited support, and combined with recent initiatives and expansion of scope, if they don't hire more software engineers they are stretching themselves really thin (i.e. worse than already are) between AAA support for SteamOS, Linux / OpenGL, Mantle, Directx, and the individual console development kits.

On a side note, I think the Steam Machines testing and SteamOS will be in beta for some time to come, probably well into next year. Given that, I think the Prototype machines have high powered GPU's (Titan and gtx780 specifically) because new video cards that will be out next year (at some point) will reach those levels of performance for significantly less price, and Valve is forward thinking about this. I'm sure no one at Valve realistically expects to sell $1200 pre-built machines in high volume. I think they know $550-700 worth of capable hardware is going to be the sweet spot.

 

[blackened23]

I'm still really confused by the Steambox concept. It obviously won't replace consoles being that the price is substantially higher (to get CAPABLE hardware, as you mentioned) therefore the typical family won't buy one. That relegates it to PC users who might be interested in upgrading to one as an alternative to a gaming notebook or something along those lines.

I guess, I don't see what demographic this is going after. The mass market will buy consoles based on price and the vast software ecosystem, while this is relegated to the PC ecosystem but may not have the gaming ecosystem (as it is based on linux). I just don't know who they're going after here. Unless there's an unknown variable that Valve hasn't discussed yet - a Linux OpenGL flavored API with direct hardware access? Maybe? IDK. As things appear on the surface though, it's hard to see these really taking off.

Serious question. What demographic is Valve aiming for here? Would it be priced attractively enough to get the PC buyers in? Would it detract from console sales? (IMHO, it won't, because capable hardware costs a lot more, and that is aside from the meager software ecosystem of linux thus far)...Again, there are many unknown variables that can affect all of this, so I really don't know if there's something i'm missing.

If it's just an alternative to a "traditional" PC, I more than welcome it. That would be great. I've seen a lot of folks billing it as a console killer, though, and I don't necessarily see that happening.

 

[tviceman]

I think they're trying to create a mass market gaming OS with the benefits PC's usually come (better graphics, mods via steam workshop, controller/input flexibility, upgradeable) with but without the inherent (or perceived) hurdles (configuring hardware, configuring games, build errors, incompatibilities, size of units, initial cost of investment). I doubt Valve will be selling their systems at much of a profit, if any, (since their bread and butter is software sales) and may even get small price breaks if they're buying from manufacturers in volume.

Don't look at it from your perspective. You are 0.5% of the market. You already know how to game on PC and like spec'ing out new rigs and building them. You dont' mind dropping $650 on a graphics card and spending 30 minutes finding the right mix of frame rates and visual fidelity. Look at it from the perspective of people who are somewhat interested in PC gaming but have no desire at all to build their own rig or drop $1200 at cyberpowerpc, origin, maingear, falcon, or alienware. Or look at it from the perspective of the occasional forum posts from people who ask "will a gtx650 work in my Dell XXX?" or "is an hd7750 much of an upgrade over XXXX?" Valve is looking to expand their market by bringing affordable and capable rigs with a gaming oriented OS and, ultimately, gain influence from developers to bring PC gaming up to the front tier of development again.

 

[Vesku]

The point of the SteamOS and associated Steam Machines is to guard against Microsoft damaging Valve's Steam game and content delivery business by further controlling how apps are sold and installed on Windows.

It makes sense that the AMD SteamOS testing will remain internal even while they ship out Nvidia boxes. AMD publicly reduced its Linux support team during their cut backs.

Also explains this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7367/nvidia-pledges-help-on-open-source-linux-gpu-driver-development

As AMD has actually released more info on their GPUs than Nvidia, it's just GPUs are complicated enough that open source driver progress is slow without corporate backing.

 

[blackened23]

I think they're trying to create a mass market gaming OS with the benefits PC's usually come (better graphics, mods via steam workshop, controller/input flexibility, upgradeable) with but without the inherent (or perceived) hurdles (configuring hardware, configuring games, build errors, incompatibilities, size of units, initial cost of investment). I doubt Valve will be selling their systems at much of a profit, if any, (since their bread and butter is software sales) and may even get small price breaks if they're buying from manufacturers in volume.

Don't look at it from your perspective. You are 0.5% of the market. You already know how to game on PC and like spec'ing out new rigs and building them. You dont' mind dropping $650 on a graphics card and spending 30 minutes finding the right mix of frame rates and visual fidelity. Look at it from the perspective of people who are somewhat interested in PC gaming but have no desire at all to build their own rig or drop $1200 at cyberpowerpc, origin, maingear, falcon, or alienware. Or look at it from the perspective of the occasional forum posts from people who ask "will a gtx650 work in my Dell XXX?" or "is an hd7750 much of an upgrade over XXXX?" Valve is looking to expand their market by bringing affordable and capable rigs with a gaming oriented OS and, ultimately, gain influence from developers to bring PC gaming up to the front tier of development again.

That makes a lot of sense, actually. I guess, anything that brings more attention to PC gaming is a good thing.

 

[monstercameron]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...red-steam-machines-for-2014/?partner=yahootix

Of course AMD will be included, they're 35% of Steam's users choice of graphics. Anyone who thought AMD would be completely locked out of pre-built Steam Machines were silly. But as I have said over, and over, and over, I think the big reason Nvidia was selected exclusively for the beta is because, as usual, their driver and software support team is ahead of AMD - specifically in Linux / SteamOS functionality in this instance. And again, I think with AMD's layoff's over the past few years, seemingly limited support, and combined with recent initiatives and expansion of scope, if they don't hire more software engineers they are stretching themselves really thin (i.e. worse than already are) between AAA support for SteamOS, Linux / OpenGL, Mantle, Directx, and the individual console development kits.

...

I dont buy the driver angle...I believe this is a co-branding partnership with nvidia, like they have done with shield.

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1nr6d7/amd_driver_issues_fact_or_fiction/

As for the driver non-sense, hd6k and hd7k work fine under linux, I did a poll and what I gleamed from it was that older card pre hd6k on the legacy drivers suffered a bit, but this wasn't true with hd6k and newer. Mind you that there are still weak points in AMDs catalyst beta drivers but as for function and performance...totally competent.

 

[Imouto]

I dont buy the driver angle...I believe this is a co-branding partnership with nvidia, like they have done with shield.

Shield wat?

 

[WelshBloke]

Shield wat?

Shield and Android, GeForce and SteamOS?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Was anyone in doubt?

SteamMachine is just a random PC with SteamOS installed. AMD, nVidia or Intel.

 

[Imouto]

Shield and Android, GeForce and SteamOS?

There's no partnership for the Shield. No one would touch it with a 10 foot pole.

 

[StrangerGuy]

If Valve is smart this should be an $500 tops AMD console not a multi-spec PC with a Valve sticker.

 

[monstercameron]

There's no partnership for the Shield. No one would touch it with a 10 foot pole.

a company doesn't just use another companies brand/service to advertise their own product without the some sort of authorization...especially nvidia and valve...

 

[MightyMalus]

I think they're trying to create a mass market gaming OS with the benefits PC's usually come (better graphics, mods via steam workshop, controller/input flexibility, upgradeable) with

Those are the hurdles of PC's.

but without the inherent (or perceived) hurdles (configuring hardware, configuring games, build errors, incompatibilities, size of units, initial cost of investment).

That would make it a console, which its not.

I doubt Valve will be selling their systems at much of a profit, if any, (since their bread and butter is software sales) and may even get small price breaks if they're buying from manufacturers in volume.

I don't know the demographic either. Everything being off the shelf, means it will cost a similar price. More hardware options means complexity. How will they brand it? "Buy Box#1 and play BF4 at 30FPS, or buy Box#2 and run it at 60FPS!" Are you kidding me?

Don't look at it from your perspective. You are 0.5% of the market. You already know how to game on PC and like spec'ing out new rigs and building them. You dont' mind dropping $650 on a graphics card and spending 30 minutes finding the right mix of frame rates and visual fidelity. Look at it from the perspective of people who are somewhat interested in PC gaming but have no desire at all to build their own rig or drop $1200 at cyberpowerpc, origin, maingear, falcon, or alienware.

For what!? $100 less because of not using Windows 8? Pretty sure "those people" have no clue what SteamOS is. You can't market SteamOS! It is for the 0.1% of people.

Or look at it from the perspective of the occasional forum posts from people who ask "will a gtx650 work in my Dell XXX?" or "is an hd7750 much of an upgrade over XXXX?"

This "person" has enough tech knowledge to figure out the name of his GPU. He won't understand SteamOS.

Valve is looking to expand their market by bringing affordable and capable rigs with a gaming oriented OS and, ultimately, gain influence from developers to bring PC gaming up to the front tier of development again.

I have an incredible market called Windows 8, it is also a very capable gaming OS it already has influenced millions of developers and I can do what ever I want with it. Well, almost everything, except hack into the OS and start playing with the code, but that's me.

Why would I get SteamOS? As a dumb **** or as smart person, why would I?

Unless, I hate Microsoft. And even then, there is Mac...

Its a PC, claiming to be console like yet with all the problems of a PC. And with even less functionality. Steam is locked and has DRM too. The only interesting thing is the weird control, which I'm already doubtful of.

But, of SteamOS and its machines, this is one man's ambition, a tiny amount of followers with too much attention. I might(doubt it) double boot to it, just to see it. But I highly doubt many, the fraction of the fraction, would use it alone.

Valve, sell me Steam. Why would I want it or need it? Why would anyone, really?

 

[Imouto]

a company doesn't just use another companies brand/service to advertise their own product without the some sort of authorization...especially nvidia and valve...

By that reasoning every single company selling an Android device has a partnership with Google? Because that's just what a Shield is, yet another Android device.

 

[frowertr]

I'm still shaking my head about the Steam box too. I just don't see this being marketable. Console gamers aren't going to spend $400+ for a gaming PC when they can buy a PS4 or XBone for less. Likewise, PC gamers aren't going to buy a Steam Box as they already have gaming rigs which they custom built. We can simply slap together a cheap HTPC and stream our Steam game from our gaming rigs to our HTPC's in the living room if we want the Steam Big picture experience.

I like Valve and I hope they succeed. I just don't know where/how/to whom they are going to market this device.

 

[MightyMalus]

I just don't know where/how/to whom they are going to market this device.

My thoughts exactly.

Its not disruptive in any way, if anything, its plain stupid.

 

[monstercameron]

By that reasoning every single company selling an Android device has a partnership with Google? Because that's just what a Shield is, yet another Android device.

well, android is a whole other topic, as for gapps, then yes Nvidia had to get authorization to ship google software and services.

 

[Imouto]

well, android is a whole other topic, as for gapps, then yes Nvidia had to get authorization to ship google software and services.

Where's the partnership then? How's it remotely related to Nvidia and Valve?

 

[Gloomy]

Looks like AMD threw a fit (rightfully) when Valve confirmed what anyone with Linux experience already knew; AMD drivers are not production ready.

Personally I think there's plenty of time to get their drivers patched up before Steamboxes ship next year, it's not like they're lacking in bug reports. They shouldn't have waited so long to start properly supporting Linux and OpenGL while building so much negative publicity. What did they expect, when their drivers get blacklisted for being terrible? lol

 

[monstercameron]

Looks like AMD threw a fit (rightfully) when Valve confirmed what anyone with Linux experience already knew; AMD drivers are not production ready.

Personally I think there's plenty of time to get their drivers patched up before Steamboxes ship next year, it's not like they're lacking in bug reports. They shouldn't have waited so long to start properly supporting Linux and OpenGL while building so much negative publicity. What did they expect, when their drivers get blacklisted for being terrible? lol

what about their FOSS driver effort? they have been supporting linux for a long while also amd hd6k-7k drivers are stable
here is a reddit post i amde about in Linux_gaming
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1nr6d7/amd_driver_issues_fact_or_fiction/
the drivers arent the issue here...

 

[Zstream]

Looks like AMD threw a fit (rightfully) when Valve confirmed what anyone with Linux experience already knew; AMD drivers are not production ready.

Personally I think there's plenty of time to get their drivers patched up before Steamboxes ship next year, it's not like they're lacking in bug reports. They shouldn't have waited so long to start properly supporting Linux and OpenGL while building so much negative publicity. What did they expect, when their drivers get blacklisted for being terrible? lol

Is steamos using mantle or opengl?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Is steamos using mantle or opengl?

OpenGL.

 

[Grooveriding]

Is steamos using mantle or opengl?

AFAIK Mantle can be made available on any OS. Also the Mantle API is implemented at the game level. I'm sure we'll see plenty of games on SteamOS that support Mantle.

 

[Lonyo]

They probably went with Nvidia in the beta boxes because NV has already shown through Shield that they have an operational streaming function for systems, so that Valve can get their Windows games streaming to Linux aspect tested.

Maybe AMD has something similar or is working on it, but I would guess NV's current product which already works and has been show in a production environment would be something Valve would want to test, unless they have their own bespoke system, which I would guess isn't that likely.

 

[MightyMalus]

Steam Machines are still going to fail miserably. There's no market for it.

IMHO, they should have done two boxes. Or just one. And lock the heck out of it, like a console.

They could have gone with an "APU", an Intel GT3 or a Kaveri. And focus on massive optimizations for it. No dGPU's. Less complex. Price of $300-$500 for the box.

But this? Madness!