Valve publishes their own Linux Distribution

[Imaginer]

I'm pro linux, but a couple of the biggest obstacles to linux gaming being a serious contender to Windows is:

1. A ridiculously large back catalog of content. I'm still able to play games from the Win9X days and XP days on the latest Windows versions with little to no difficulty. Steam is it's own worst enemy here because even though it's making a noble push into linux, the vast majority of it's content is for Windows and 5 years from now people will still maintain Windows as long as the content they purchase today stays functional. For many people, moving away from Windows now is like literally throwing away all the cash they've spent on Windows software since forever.

2. DirectX provides a full suite of capabilities for developers for sound, control, graphics, etc. Linux is decentralized. OpenGL is nice and can compete with Direct3D, but it is only one part of a larger equation. Microsoft gaming didn't appear in a vacumn and whether they get credit or not, MS via DirectX has done more for gaming stability than virtually any other platform. Maybe MS has been pushing Xbox more in recent years, but it is the latest Direct3D combined by attrition by numbers that pushes GPU evolution. In economics, it matters more where the money is than the virtue of any particular applicaiton.

I do believe linux will have a larger role in the future, but if anyone is expecting some sort of revolution I wouldn't hold my breath over it. There are many steps that have to be taken before Linux would be viable for the average mainstream user.

This. Open source means anyone can throw in their own standards and operations ranging from the UI consistency to different APIs which would make it just as bloated as different .NET and DirectX patches as is with Windows systems. And there is no easy way to automatically set what you need. It involves hunting and manually texting configuration files to make things work.

And that is my main point with Windows. It works out the gate for most to mostly all purposes. It has definitely come along way both from hardware and software developers, both Microsoft and third parties alike. And if Linux does become a viable option for gaming, I would not want to constantly bootswapping on any machine. And I don't agree in having either or running virtualized as it is now TWO operating systems taking up resources at once.

 

[Red Storm]

It is - a distribution system like Steam has quite a bit of pull in the industry. Enough to go to developers and publishers, and get them onboard to begin with so there's some emphasis behind the concept. But that's all this is, a concept. It's cute, it's nice and it's a great concept. Many developers and publishers realize this and that's why they're not jumping on this - you don't think they'd like to give Microsoft a big fat fist up the ass?

Game changers are things like the Occulus Rift - look at what happened when Carmack put his name on it.

Please take me to this wonderful world where game changers don't start from basic concepts but instead have simply existed from the get go.

 

[dougp]

You admit that Linux meets your needs except for gaming. If valve gets companies to provide their software for linux, would you stop using Windows? Also, if game developers use cross platform APIs and tools (OpenGL, OpenAL, etc) it can run on almost anysystem easily except for windows phone and Xbox.

No, probably not. There's still software that I use and I'm unable to find suitable replacements on Linux.

 

[dougp]

Please take me to this wonderful world where game changers don't start from basic concepts but instead have simply existed from the get go.

Probably because this isn't a game changer.

 

[Imaginer]

You admit that Linux meets your needs except for gaming. If valve gets companies to provide their software for linux, would you stop using Windows? Also, if game developers use cross platform APIs and tools (OpenGL, OpenAL, etc) it can run on almost anysystem easily except for windows phone and Xbox.

They are already trying to do so with a software option other than games in their store. I have seen quite a bit of content creation stuff at typical prices at that section of the store.

 

[irishScott]

It is - a distribution system like Steam has quite a bit of pull in the industry. Enough to go to developers and publishers, and get them onboard to begin with so there's some emphasis behind the concept. But that's all this is, a concept. It's cute, it's nice and it's a great concept. Many developers and publishers realize this and that's why they're not jumping on this - you don't think they'd like to give Microsoft a big fat fist up the ass?

Game changers are things like the Occulus Rift - look at what happened when Carmack put his name on it.

Yeah, it's a concept. Last I checked concepts are where products come from. The Steam Box is very new, still largely in development, and you're criticising it for being a concept? Gee, I guess game developers shouldn't announce when they start making a new game. After all, at that stage they're just concepts.

Of course developers haven't jumped on board, there's nothing to jump on yet, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think your judgement is a bit premature.

Much like the steam box, the Occulus Rift has potential to shake up the market. But right now it has a very, shall we say "conceptual" library of games, many of which aren't even optimized for it. I hope it succeedes, but whether it turns into an actual game changer or just another good idea gone bad has yet to be seen.

 

[Olikan]

Wrong, Valve cares about money, which is gaming. Don't confuse them caring about gaming because it needs to return to it's roots or develop innovative games.

and then...dota 2 completely free, alien swarm was free, free portal 2 dlc and the most surprising of all the source filmaker for free

nothing better than working in a company that have ~400 employees, estimated 1 billion of revenue per year, without share holders, and growing 30 to 50% per year...

you sir, knows nothing about valve

 

[Red Storm]

You admit that Linux meets your needs except for gaming. If valve gets companies to provide their software for linux, would you stop using Windows? Also, if game developers use cross platform APIs and tools (OpenGL, OpenAL, etc) it can run on almost anysystem easily except for windows phone and Xbox.

I would gladly switch to Linux in a heartbeat, especially with the direction Microsoft is going in.

 

[dougp]

Yeah, it's a concept. Last I checked concepts are where products come from. The Steam Box is very new, still largely in development, and you're criticising it for being a concept? Gee, I guess game developers shouldn't announce when they start making a new game. After all, at that stage they're just concepts.

Of course developers haven't jumped on board, there's nothing to jump on yet, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think your judgement is a bit premature.

Much like the steam box, the Occulus Rift has potential to shake up the market. But right now it has a very, shall we say "conceptual" library of games, many of which aren't even optimized for it. I hope it succeedes, but whether it turns into an actual game changer or just another good idea gone bad has yet to be seen.

I never said anything bad about the Steam Box, did I? This discussion is about the distribution of Linux that Valve will release. I think the Steam Box is the right direction to go (but arguably no different than the same thing Newell criticized Windows 8 for) - and it will probably be based off this distribution. Doesn't change the fact that the only developer on board is Valve or indie devs.

 

[Red Storm]

I never said anything bad about the Steam Box, did I? This discussion is about the distribution of Linux that Valve will release. I think the Steam Box is the right direction to go (but arguably no different than the same thing Newell criticized Windows 8 for) - and it will probably be based off this distribution. Doesn't change the fact that the only developer on board is Valve or indie devs.

So... what exactly? You're bashing the idea because even before launch it doesn't have the same number of developers working with it as Windows? These things obviously take time, and Valve putting their muscle behind it is just one step towards that goal, but it's a step in the right - or I guess I should say better - direction.

 

[dougp]

So... what exactly? You're bashing the idea because even before launch it doesn't have the same number of developers working with it as Windows? These things obviously take time, and Valve putting their muscle behind it is just one step towards that goal, but it's a step in the right - or I guess I should say better - direction.

I'm just going to step away from the discussion, because it's obvious you're biased as well as others and regardless of what any of us say, no opinions will be swayed. I'll end it by saying, let me know in a year or two where this is at and what it's done for the gaming community - if it's a game changer, or whatever, I'll eat my words.

I have a feeling that won't be the case. :whiste:

 

[irishScott]

I'm just going to step away from the discussion, because it's obvious you're biased as well as others and regardless of what any of us say, no opinions will be swayed. I'll end it by saying, let me know in a year or two where this is at and what it's done for the gaming community - if it's a game changer, or whatever, I'll eat my words.

I have a feeling that won't be the case. :whiste:

*shrug* Fair enough. What'l you say if they release HL2E3 and/or HL3 exclusively on linux to promote it? (JK, as you said they want to make money)

 

[BladeVenom]

Dependency on Windows for gaming? Yeah because Windows is sooooo expensive.

A $100 is still a $100. That will buy you a better video card, or more games. I'd rather that money go to AMD, Nvidia, or game developer than to Microsoft. Those other companies will use that money to make better PC hardware or software. MS will use it to buy PC games that are in development and turn them into Xbox exclusives. You're shooting yourself in the foot by supporting MS.

There also no DRM problems with Linux like you run into with Windows when you change hardware, or running out of activations.

 

[Redinit]

Dependency on Windows for gaming? Yeah because Windows is sooooo expensive.

Who said anything about price? Is this honestly the only reason you think people don't use Windows?

 

[Red Storm]

Who said anything about price? Is this honestly the only reason you think people don't use Windows?

Yeah. Even if Windows was free I'd still happily switch.

 

[Dumac]

Valve is releasing a Linux distro designed around Steam. If you weren't interested in Steam... then you wouldn't download it. Or am I not understanding you correctly?

It's better because there are a lot of people who pay to use Windows only because they happen to like games that are by default developed for Windows. If gaming moved away from Windows I would have zero reason to pay for or use Microsoft's OS, and I could then switch over completely to better alternatives.

It gives gamers options.

It's linux... right now you can download steam for linux on any distro, and it runs any game you own already ported to linux. What they're doing is optimizing a distro for it. This is hardly a new or sinister concept.

My point was that Valve ragged hard on MS for baking Windows Store into windows as it was unfair to other content distributors, yet here they go doing the same thing to linux.

Of course it is simply one of many linux distros, but I don't see how what MS did could be evil yet this be good. They both seem perfectly fine to me.

 

[Red Storm]

My point was that Valve ragged hard on MS for baking Windows Store into windows as it was unfair to other content distributors, yet here they go doing the same thing to linux.

Of course it is simply one of many linux distros, but I don't see how what MS did could be evil yet this be good. They both seem perfectly fine to me.

But you can download Steam on Windows, Mac, and Linux, so it's not really the same at all. They're offering their own distro specifically for people that want Steam built in.

 

[Texashiker]

My point was that Valve ragged hard on MS for baking Windows Store into windows as it was unfair to other content distributors, yet here they go doing the same thing to linux.

Of course it is simply one of many linux distros, but I don't see how what MS did could be evil yet this be good. They both seem perfectly fine to me.

I think there was some kind of certification process before a program could be listed in the windows store?

If I remember right, there was a backlash about games, expansions and updates having to be submitted to microsoft for certification?

 

[brandonb]

Gaming can be done today on Linux, but it isn't. There are many reasons why. Valve isn't going to magically fix this.

Use your noggin!

When you have a for-profit company like Microsoft. People get paid. People get paid to make a solution. When things are open source, people do it as a hobby and for fun, and there is nobody to answer to, and no accountability for deadlines, quality, or anything else.

Anything open source that has been successful has had money backers. Either through advertising, selling of services, or something. When that happens, the consumer is the least of peoples considerations. Money will drive things. Always. Valve is no different. If they didn't see $$$ written on the wall, they wouldn't be doing it. They aren't going to do something out of the kindness of their hearts. Nobody will.

 

[Red Storm]

Gaming can be done today on Linux, but it isn't. There are many reasons why. Valve isn't going to magically fix this.

Use your noggin!

When you have a for-profit company like Microsoft. People get paid. People get paid to make a solution. When things are open source, people do it as a hobby and for fun, and there is nobody to answer to, and no accountability for deadlines, quality, or anything else.

Anything open source that has been successful has had money backers. Either through advertising, selling of services, or something. When that happens, the consumer is the least of peoples considerations. Money will drive things. Always. Valve is no different. If they didn't see $$$ written on the wall, they wouldn't be doing it. They aren't going to do something out of the kindness of their hearts. Nobody will.

That's true, but there's a difference between Valve and say EA. EA are slaves to their share holders, everything needs to be about making profit. If Valve was honestly like that, they wouldn't exist as they do now. Heck Steam probably wouldn't exist, remember everyone saying it was going to fail when they launched? How their company runs wouldn't be considered "optimal" by EA and it shows in the games they make. One pushes quantity (for the most part), while the other quality (again, for the most part). Saying that Valve is no different than a company like EA is simply wrong.

 

[smackababy]

That's true, but there's a difference between Valve and say EA. EA are slaves to their share holders, everything needs to be about making profit. If Valve was honestly like that, they wouldn't exist as they do now. Heck Steam probably wouldn't exist, remember everyone saying it was going to fail when they launched? How their company runs wouldn't be considered "optimal" by EA and it shows in the games they make. One pushes quantity (for the most part), while the other quality (again, for the most part). Saying that Valve is no different than a company like EA is simply wrong.

If Valve didn't have Steam keeping their lights on, they would be out of business. Valve takes their sweet time releasing a game and pretends they are working on HL3.

Steam on Linux won't take off. I argued this in the SteamBox thread in the console forum and the OP got upset and deleted all his posts. Valve will not magically woo developers to switch from Windows to Linux development. Windows, especially for gaming, has such a large marketshare nobody cares about Linux except the kids on the Windows hate bandwagon. Oh, you're not on that bandwagon you say? Give me one intelligent reason Windows 8 "sucks." And "Oh well Gabe said it!!!" isn't an intelligent one.

Their SteamBox will fail, they won't abandon it because Gabe is way too proud to do that, but it won't sell well. It won't have any real killer apps. It will be a super underperforming Linux PC with a 10 game library that connects to your TV. Unless it costs $1000+, which nobody will buy, people won't care about it. They will be lucky if they get the multiplatform titles like CoD, Madden, and the likes that sell very well on consoles. They have no exclusives unless it comes boxed with HL3. The only people who care about Steam are PC gamers and I doubt they will spend $500 on a PC to play the games they already own with lower settings.

 

[Elixer]

Valve is trying to outdo the console guys, it is as simple as that.
Either you or Valve can provide the hardware & they provide the OS, (or I suppose a way for other distros to use the Valve client as well) and that opens up their method of distribution to millions of machines off the bat.
No subscription fee, like XLIVE, no having to keep buying the OS to get the new features, and you have a huge, huge market to sell things.
Add in ways for anyone to sell stuff without needing a expensive SDK and all the other costs, and it really does seem like a sound plan.

While it might be just a trickle of launches now, this thing could get massive.

 

[Texashiker]

Valve is trying to outdo the console guys, it is as simple as that.

Multiple platforms, cheap games, saved games and settings across platforms, chat, friends list, social networking with other gamers,,,,.

In all honesty, it is not going to take much to upset the console market. If steam can get the steam box working, it is going to change everything.

 

[smackababy]

Multiple platforms, cheap games, saved games and settings across platforms, chat, friends list, social networking with other gamers,,,,.

In all honesty, it is not going to take much to upset the console market. If steam can get the steam box working, it is going to change everything.

But the SteamBox will have no steam. (Yes, a pun!) They won't have a large library. They won't have any exclusives. They won't have the big multiplatform games like CoD and Madden, and if they do, the average CoD and Madden console player don't know who of what Valve / Steam is and are unlikely to go out on a limb and buy some console from them. Console gamers care a lot about exclusives. Valve has none. PC gamers say they consider getting a SteamBox, but why? For the same price, they can build a perfectly capable PC and play all their PC games on it in the living room.

If Valve, read as Gabe, tucked tail between legs and offered MS like $500 million and $25 for every console sold to license their DX libraries on whatever OS they put on it, it would by far be the best console ever released. However, they won't do this and it is in MS interest to not even accept the deal.

 

[Jodell88]

Gaming can be done today on Linux, but it isn't. There are many reasons why. Valve isn't going to magically fix this.

Use your noggin!

When you have a for-profit company like Microsoft. People get paid. People get paid to make a solution. When things are open source, people do it as a hobby and for fun, and there is nobody to answer to, and no accountability for deadlines, quality, or anything else.

Anything open source that has been successful has had money backers. Either through advertising, selling of services, or something. When that happens, the consumer is the least of peoples considerations. Money will drive things. Always. Valve is no different. If they didn't see $$$ written on the wall, they wouldn't be doing it. They aren't going to do something out of the kindness of their hearts. Nobody will.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Companies around the world pump money into Linux including Microsoft.