Valve publishes their own Linux Distribution

[dougp]

To be offered in the windows market place an application has to go through a certification process. If the app does not meet certain qualifications, it is denied.

what indie developer wants to go through a certification process for a game they are only going to make a few dollars on?

Is windows 9 and windows 10 going to have the same certification process?

Will a game certified on windows 8 have to be recertified for windows 9, 10, 11,,,?

5 year old game does not pass windows 10 certification, will the developer have to make changes to get it included in the app store?

I think Gabe is looking towards the future, rather then what is happening right now.

How is this any different than what Steam or Apple require? Steam has Greenlight and Apple has it's own certification process. There are positive and negative benefits to this type of system - an app store is not the death of the physical media or preventing non-app store installations.

Why didn't Gabe open his mouth when Apple released the App store? All he did when he lambasted Microsoft and Windows 8 was put his foot in his mouth.

 

[Homerboy]

I didn't read all posts, but I will toss in my 2 cents:

The biggest hurdle/drawback to PC gaming isn't Windows, it's the wide range of hardware that has to be taken into account. Linux does not resolve this issue at all.

What is the difference between a game running on Windows vs Linux?

 

[Jodell88]

What is the difference between a game running on Windows vs Linux?

DirectX vs OpenGL

 

[BladeVenom]

I have no idea what I'm talking about? Sure.

Good, something we agree on.

Linux has been irrelevant, and will continue to remain irrelevant. Nobody is going to market a game and support a desktop in which less than 1% of the world uses. Sorry! Money talks.

There are already some Linux games. Money does talk, and that money has gone to Kickstarter to support games that are being developed for Linux.

Linux OpenGL OpenAL and all these other cross platform libraries and game engines like Unity have been out for 15 years have never produced anything. Ever. Except maybe a few indie titles that nobody wants to play anyways.

That's changing. A lot of those highly funded games being developed on Kickstarter are using the Unity engine.

Total War Battles: Shogun by Creative Assembly was made with Unity. Creative Assembly are a major developer.

Major developer, Obsidian Entertainment, is also now using Unity for their upcoming games.

 

[BladeVenom]

How Microsoft is trying—but failing—to court indie game developers

"At last week's Game Developers Conference... Windows-based devices, however, were conspicuously absent—outside of the Microsoft booth, of course."

"developers are shunning Windows devices..."

"GDC is the place where game developers and publishers convene to talk shop, and neither Windows 8/RT nor Windows Phone was a significant part of anyone's conversation."

 

[theevilsharpie]

Why didn't Gabe open his mouth when Apple released the App store? All he did when he lambasted Microsoft and Windows 8 was put his foot in his mouth.

Only Gabe knows why he says the things that he does, but your comparison to the App Store is poor. When Apple unveiled the App Store, they were a small player in the smartphone market and didn't wield the power that they do today. Also, while I could be wrong on this, I don't ever recall there being any other way to install applications on an iPhone, so developers weren't losing anything.

Compare this to Windows, which has been a dominant and open platform for so long that many software developers have built their business models around it.

 

[Texashiker]

How is this any different than what Steam or Apple require? Steam has Greenlight and Apple has it's own certification process. There are positive and negative benefits to this type of system - an app store is not the death of the physical media or preventing non-app store installations.

Steam has several old games from the 1990s. In fact, steam has a lot of games from the 1990s that will not run on windows 7 without some kind of fix.

Doom
Hexen
Hexen II
Quake
Quake II
Fallout

I had to download a fix to get quake 3 arena to run on windows 7 64 bit.

Should Doom be excluded from the windows store because it does not microsoft guidelines? How about Quake? What about half-life and Counter-Strike?

 

[lakedude]

Oh man, wanted to like linux, but linux is only free if your time is worth nothing.

Sorry you had so much trouble.

Your choice of a distro has unfortunately made things more difficult.

I did a search for "user friendly distro" and found this:

For the brave: Arch Linux

I doubt you want to give it another go but if you do you might try a more user friendly distro than Arch.

That is the beauty and the downfall of Linux, so many flavors!

I'm a huge Puppy Linux/FatDog64 fan. Wireless support was bad for a while but it has improved leaps and bounds. The connection is monitored and if it drops off it automatically connects up again.

The only reason Windows seems easier than a good Linux distro is because it comes already installed. If you are stuck installing Windows from scratch and need to scare up some drivers it is a total pain, especially if it the network card that needs the drivers...

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Sorry you had so much trouble.

Your choice of a distro has unfortunately made things more difficult.

I did a search for "user friendly distro" and found this:

I doubt you want to give it another go but if you do you might try a more user friendly distro than Arch.

That is the beauty and the downfall of Linux, so many flavors!

I'm a huge Puppy Linux/FatDog64 fan. Wireless support was bad for a while but it has improved leaps and bounds. The connection is monitored and if it drops off it automatically connects up again.

The only reason Windows seems easier than a good Linux distro is because it comes already installed. If you are stuck installing Windows from scratch and need to scare up some drivers it is a total pain, especially if it the network card that needs the drivers...

Ubuntu is "fine", but at that point might as well use Windows. Its basically the same thing. Including the terrible UI. Unity was a death knell for Ubuntu.

Arch linux isn't "hard" its just a bit more time consuming to set up properly. Dependancies are a pain to manage at times if you accidentally delete a dependency. And no matter what distro I use, I would be dealing with wpa_supplicant anyway.

Wireless drivers suck for most every linux distro, especially for enterprise connections. As well do graphics drivers. Needs a ton of tinkering to get hardware acceleration working. Netflix doesn't work because lack of silverlight (though I'm pretty sure there are workarounds), flash support is wonky, and god forbid you use a non mainstream video card/network chip. Good luck with that. Every single distro I've tried out, Puppy, mint, xubuntu, lubuntu, debian, arch, ubuntu, DSL, kubuntu, has always had wifi issues. Many still have graphics driver issues

Linux still has a LONG way to go as a fully solid desktop replacement. Basic features are still extremely wonky. Also, the major windows managers (XFCE, GNOME. etc etc) are pissing me off with all their effects and shit. Stop that. Effects and transition animations are stupid.

 

[dougp]

Steam has several old games from the 1990s. In fact, steam has a lot of games from the 1990s that will not run on windows 7 without some kind of fix.

Doom
Hexen
Hexen II
Quake
Quake II
Fallout

I had to download a fix to get quake 3 arena to run on windows 7 64 bit.

Should Doom be excluded from the windows store because it does not microsoft guidelines? How about Quake? What about half-life and Counter-Strike?

Why would they have to be in the Windows Store? Were they before? You keep getting hung up on old games. Even though they're sold on Steam, they don't work without intervention - so that means I could just use my old installation media to get them going. Maybe if Steam was pro-active in maintaining OS compatibility like GOG, your argument would hold steam (haha) when comparing Steam vs. Windows Store.

FYI, 3-4 times a year, as well as QuakeCon, I get together with friends from high school and have LAN parties. We still play a few of the games you mention, and we have to figure out how to get it to work.

 

[dougp]

Only Gabe knows why he says the things that he does, but your comparison to the App Store is poor. When Apple unveiled the App Store, they were a small player in the smartphone market and didn't wield the power that they do today. Also, while I could be wrong on this, I don't ever recall there being any other way to install applications on an iPhone, so developers weren't losing anything.

Compare this to Windows, which has been a dominant and open platform for so long that many software developers have built their business models around it.

Except Apple then moved the App Store over to their OS, yet no one is criticizing them here as much as they do Windows. Oh, and they still support side loading, like Windows.

Let's understand this - most people here who are hating on Windows are doing so because they feel slighted or they have a resentment towards Microsoft. Microsoft isn't doing anything different than another company is, and they still haven't removed the ability to install applications. When I lose the ability to not install applications without the Windows Store, come talk to me - but odds are, Microsoft would lose a lot of business if they went with that model.

Edit: Also a note, my comparison to the App Store is perfectly valid. The Windows Store as you know it existed first on WP7 (known as Zune Store or whatever) and then made it's transition over to their OS and tablets. That is the exact same path as both Apple and Google. Hell, I remember having app installation GUIs for yum or any other repository on Ubuntu 5 years ago.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Except Apple then moved the App Store over to their OS, yet no one is criticizing them here as much as they do Windows. Oh, and they still support side loading, like Windows.

The industry doesn't care what Apple does with OS X because it doesn't have enough market share to matter. If Apple decides to close OS X, there will be moaning, but no developer of significance is going to die because many 3rd-party Mac applications are available for Windows as well. OTOH, when it comes to non-mobile PCs, Microsoft essentially is the market, and 3rd party Windows developers exist because Microsoft allows them to. If Microsoft decides to close Windows, the 3rd-party developer market would be fundamentally altered in a way that would force a good portion of the market out of business.

When I lose the ability to not install applications without the Windows Store, come talk to me - but odds are, Microsoft would lose a lot of business if they went with that model.

Microsoft is being pushed by market forces harder than they've been since the early 90s, and they are under pressure to perform. Microsoft has the desktop world by the balls right now, and the only option that users have is older versions of Windows (and consumers that buy retail PCs don't realistically have that option). As Microsoft's market share erodes and falls below the levels needed to generate antitrust scrutiny, you can expect them to begin reigning in their ecosystem, particularly since they've already taken the steps needed to do so.

It's certainly not without precedent. Windows Vista eliminated the ability to run unsigned hardware drivers, and with Windows RT, Microsoft has done the same for applications.

As I mentioned in my original post, as an end user, Linux doesn't have much (if any) immediate benefit to you. However, software developers whose business depends on software sales need to take the long view, and Windows is not moving in a direction favorable to their interests.

Hell, I remember having app installation GUIs for yum or any other repository on Ubuntu 5 years ago.

Linux package repositories provide a convenient way to install software. You're not forced to use them, and you can install software from source, a customer installer, or however you want.

Software markets like the App Store and the Microsoft Store serve to monopolize the distribution of software, with the vendor serving as the gatekeeper. If that gatekeeper doesn't like you, they can effectively lock you out of the platform with no recourse. In addition, while I can't speak for Microsoft's conduct, I know that Apple has used their App Store monopoly to prevent the distribution of apps that are against their interests.

 

[darkewaffle]

Valve wants Linux to succeed because they'll have even less competition on Linux. Steam is nothing more than a glorified app store, and with more players throwing their hat in the ring with competing programs Valve wants to find new ways to gain leverage. If Linux were to, by some miracle, attain a legitimate market share Valve is positioning itself to be the "portal" to that market for devs.

Psst, Valve doesn't care about you. Neither does Microsoft. They want two things: leverage over their competition and your money. Judging the situation based on some notion that one company has a "good heart" is completely stupid.

 

[Texashiker]

Why would they have to be in the Windows Store? Were they before? You keep getting hung up on old games.

Its a matter of choice.

And I went to quakecon, 1997 and 1998. Met John Romero, got his signature, the whole 9 yards.

 

[Red Storm]

Valve wants Linux to succeed because they'll have even less competition on Linux. Steam is nothing more than a glorified app store, and with more players throwing their hat in the ring with competing programs Valve wants to find new ways to gain leverage. If Linux were to, by some miracle, attain a legitimate market share Valve is positioning itself to be the "portal" to that market for devs.

Psst, Valve doesn't care about you. Neither does Microsoft. They want two things: leverage over their competition and your money. Judging the situation based on some notion that one company has a "good heart" is completely stupid.

They're doing it because it doesn't make sense to tie your company's entire business to Microsoft, who thus far have not responded very well in this new age of computing.

What this will do is hopefully give people the option of getting games on Windows, Mac, or Linux. I don't understand why there are people in this thread who want things to remain the way they are.

 

[dougp]

Psst, Valve doesn't care about you. Neither does Microsoft. They want two things: leverage over their competition and your money. Judging the situation based on some notion that one company has a "good heart" is completely stupid.

People who are trying to fight the argument by saying Valve cares about the gaming community will not listen to you.

 

[irishScott]

People who are trying to fight the argument by saying Valve cares about the gaming community will not listen to you.

Valve does care about the gaming community. It's the only reason they make money. Just because it's not pure altruism doesn't mean they're on the same level as Microsoft.

 

[dougp]

Valve does care about the gaming community. It's the only reason they make money. Just because it's not pure altruism doesn't mean they're on the same level as Microsoft.

Valve cares about the gaming community as much as Pampers cares about babies. They understand their target, and do enough to keep them happy - but don't expect them to go above and beyond once a market or target audience is secured.

 

[Red Storm]

Valve cares about the gaming community as much as Pampers cares about babies. They understand their target, and do enough to keep them happy - but don't expect them to go above and beyond once a market or target audience is secured.

Tell that to their TF2 team, still updating the game nearly six years after release. Show me one other big name company that does that.

 

[Anteaus]

None of this really matters right now anyway. Until Steam releases information that shows linux/steam adoption to be statistically significant this whole debate is moot. The bottom line is that out of all current linux desktop users, only a percentage of them will be interested in games. Of those, only a percentage of them will be open to adopting a Steam compatible distribution.

Ignoring the technical difficulties of which there are many, the bottom line is that unless Steam can draw in a new generation of "permenant" linux users, the economics simply don't work in favor of mainstream gaming. Companies like EA, Blizzard and Bioware develop games based on revenue models that require sales of many hundreds of thousands of units just to get them interested.

I think Steam will have some success on linux, but its far to early to gauge the potential of future success or even if the majority of linux users in general will be interested.

Whether Valve or Microsoft cares about anyone is of no consequence in this.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Tell that to their TF2 team, still updating the game nearly six years after release. Show me one other big name company that does that.

CCP Eve Online. 10 years.

Square Enix. Final Fantasy XI. 11 years.

 

[Red Storm]

CCP Eve Online. 10 years.

Square Enix. Final Fantasy XI. 11 years.

Ha I knew I should have specified other than the obvious MMOs who rely on memberships to continue updates.

 

[Elixer]

I don't see what all the arguing is all about, let's say that there is only a 1% marketshare for linux.
Everyone needs to start from someplace, so, that 1% can quickly become the next "Apple" and then you got a 800lb gorilla.

Will it happen overnight ? Nope. It will take a few years to build up market share, and for most people, that is fine.

MS is still going to try to push the next version of DX that ONLY works for win 8.1 or higher, yet, developers who actually have the good sense to code with openGL have a easy way to port things to macs, linux, PS4, and of course windows.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Ha I knew I should have specified other than the obvious MMOs who rely on memberships to continue updates.

Maple Story. Nexon. 10 years. Free to play since day 1. Still receiving patches and updates.

 

[smackababy]

Tell that to their TF2 team, still updating the game nearly six years after release. Show me one other big name company that does that.

Ultima Online - EA - 15 years. Sorry, but the most hated company in America (because gamers are a bunch of cry baby morons that vote in internet polls) still updating a game released in 1997 that has less than 1% of the MMO marketshare. Can't be a lot of money involved in that one.