Vancouver's homeless

[Nitemare]

So they found their way back home after the Olympics?

This is what you get for not exactly legalizing drugs, but taking a drug friendly approach and providing places where they can shoot up and providing clean needles.

Enabling is never the answer. They should have invested in rehab centers instead. I'm an advocate of legalizing Mary Jane and other non-addicting drugs, but H, Special K, crack...C'mon son...

 

[RbSX]

Give me a shot gun, I will fix the problem.

All joking aside though, I wrote a report on this last year, and some of the statistics are shocking. We spend roughly a million and a half dollars per day to provide social assistance to a 12 square block radius on the east side.

From a tax payers perspective, it's hard to continue to justify the expense. A few years (and a few billion dollars) later, it's still a shit hole.

Providing them with a 'safe injection' site isn't an answer either.

I genuinely feel sorry for the people that should have been in Riverview (the mental institution that was closed), that is something that never should have happened.

In the last 2 years my dad's trucks have SMOKED two cracked out junkies on a green light going through Hastings and Main.

 

[nick1985]

Safe injection site?

WTF? Is that how they are seriously spending your tax money? wow.

 

[RbSX]

Safe injection site?

WTF? Is that how they are seriously spending your tax money? wow.

Hey Nick, isn't Chicago and the state of Illinois in a state of insolvency? How did you guys spend your tax money?

Anyways, I don't like it, the federal government is trying to close it through getting a court injunction, but some left wing bleeding heart fucks want to keep it open.

 

[nick1985]

Hey Nick, isn't Chicago and the state of Illinois in a state of insolvency? How did you guys spend your tax money?

Anyways, I don't like it, the federal government is trying to close it through getting a court injunction, but some left wing bleeding heart fucks want to keep it open.

Don't even get me started on wasteful spending in my shitty state. Bleeding heart left-wing fucks ruined Illinois. You should take a trip to my county health department and see all the illegals lining up for their free shots, on my dime of course. Illinois panders to illegals with the best of them. They dont just hop the border and say "Hey, lets go way the fuck up to Illinois" for no good reason.

*edit*

If I'm attacking the way another state/province wastes tax dollars, it does NOT mean I support the way my local one does.

 

[wheresmybacon]

It doesn’t take a sociologist to note these people go where it’s easiest for them to survive. While it’s a problem everywhere, it’s a BIGGER problem in cities that have chosen to accommodate them to a fault. Vancouver is one of those.

It’s sad to see people struggling, but what’s worse is to see people use the services that exist to help them transition to a better life for nothing more than a crutch to perpetuate their addictions and destructive lifestyle. You can’t fix those who’re unwilling.

 

[nick1985]

You can’t fix those who’re unwilling.

Yes you can.

 

[mmntech]

Safe injection site?

WTF? Is that how they are seriously spending your tax money? wow.

Yeah, a lot of Canadians don't agree with it but the left leaning Liberals have really pushed for imposing this. They claim it prevents AIDS. Studies regarding whether they actually work or not have been inconclusive. I just see it as enabling addiction.

I don't go to Toronto often but I occasionally see the homeless. They're not stupid because they always hang out where tourists tend to be. Places like Union Station and along Young Street's busy shopping area. Most Toronto people don't give them money. There are also laws against "aggressive panhandling". Used to be a big problem because they'd accost people in their cars. They make me nervous; imagine being a woman driving alone in that situation!

I'd estimate that half of them are mentally ill while the rest can't be bothered to abide by society's rules. I do blame the government for some of this because mental health and drug rehab programs here are piss poor. With the latter, the problem is what you do with them. The services don't work, there's too much enabling. But if you deny them they'll just harass tourists even more or turn to violent crime.

Vancouver I know is definitely far worse than Toronto. I'm mystified how it keeps getting voted the most livable city in the world.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Give me a shot gun, I will fix the problem.

From a tax payers perspective, it's hard to continue to justify the expense. A few years (and a few billion dollars) later, it's still a shit hole.

Providing them with a 'safe injection' site isn't an answer either.

I genuinely feel sorry for the people that should have been in Riverview (the mental institution that was closed), that is something that never should have happened.

I'm more left-leaning than you, but I agree with your points here. A solid percentage (not sure if it's a majority) of the homeless here have varying degrees of mental illness and cannot function outside of an institution. Riverview should never have been closed.

The decline in the DTES can be traced back to the early-mid 90s: the closing of Riverview (which caused an influx of homeless people), and the bankruptcy of Woodward's, a major Canadian department chain which was a cornerstone in the neighbourhood. Nothing took the place of Woodward's, and the neighbourhood was essentially forgotten about, and allowed to fall into disrepair.

Outside of Vancouver, not many know that the DTES (as it's now known) was actually a vibrant shopping and entertainment district for the majority of the 20th Century, right up until the early 90s.

As for the safe injection site, you're right, it's not the end solution. As an experiment, it has had some successes. For an example of a different approach, there is a government-funded program in Switzerland which actually provides heroin and needles to users (thus cutting out the dealers), which has been effective in reducing heroin usage and guiding users to treatment.

 

[KeithTalent]

Pretty sure they are all from Quebec, or at least 90% of them it seems. Anyway, if you ignore them they will just go away. Everyone knows this.

KT

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Pretty sure they are all from Quebec, or at least 90% of them it seems. Anyway, if you ignore them they will just go away. Everyone knows this.

KT

Boo...get your own tag line .

 

[KeithTalent]

Boo...get your own tag line .

Come on now, you know I don't have the brains for that!

KT

 

[ussfletcher]

Being homeless must suck, and although it isn't necessarily their fault for being there.. it isn't everyone else' fault either.

What would be best for everyone is to establish a shanty town in a remote part of North America that is policed by military, and supplied by what would otherwise be foreign aid.

I think its a better situation then sleeping over manhole covers.

 

[silverpig]

Safe injection site?

WTF? Is that how they are seriously spending your tax money? wow.

The safe injection site has had a very positive effect on the area. They don't give out drugs there, but they do provide clean needles and a clean place to do it with nurses who are there to provide information for how to get clean.

The area has an HIV rate that is similar to the worst places in Africa. Addicts routinely pick up discarded needles in the alley and use them, keeping the infection rate high. InSite has reduced the infection rate of many of the transmissible diseases. It definitely isn't a solution to the problem, but it does address the infection aspect in a positive way.

 

[KeithTalent]

Being homeless must suck, and although it isn't necessarily their fault for being there.. it isn't everyone else' fault either.

What would be best for everyone is to establish a shanty town in a remote part of North America that is policed by military, and supplied by what would otherwise be foreign aid.

I think its a better situation then sleeping over manhole covers.

We could call it District 9!

KT

 

[keird]

Hey don't feel bad If I was homeless I'd kill ya or try. Seriously we need to take care of those less fortunate. It's embarrassing and shameful to have obscene wealth next misery and destitution.

No. It's my firm belief that it's embarrassing and shameful to be miserable and destitute.

 

[silverpig]

Vancouver I know is definitely far worse than Toronto. I'm mystified how it keeps getting voted the most livable city in the world.

It's livable for the exact reasons why the homeless come here. You don't die on the street in the winter due to the cold.

The worst of the drug addicts are confined to a 4x3 block area, and while property crime rates are very high, violent crime isn't. I've walked through the worst area at night alone several times and was totally fine. You can even have halfway decent conversations with a few of the guys down there. Some have serious issues, and others are messed up out of their minds, so you just keep your distance.

It's not like they have guns and will shoot you dead for $5 or anything.

 

[0roo0roo]

Give me a shot gun, I will fix the problem.

All joking aside though, I wrote a report on this last year, and some of the statistics are shocking. We spend roughly a million and a half dollars per day to provide social assistance to a 12 square block radius on the east side.

From a tax payers perspective, it's hard to continue to justify the expense. A few years (and a few billion dollars) later, it's still a shit hole.

Providing them with a 'safe injection' site isn't an answer either.

I genuinely feel sorry for the people that should have been in Riverview (the mental institution that was closed), that is something that never should have happened.

In the last 2 years my dad's trucks have SMOKED two cracked out junkies on a green light going through Hastings and Main.

malcolm gladwell had a good article on this, was also in his book what the dog saw. it seems our sense of fairness makes doing the rational things to solve such issues problematic. the cost of simply housing homeless people is far less than taking care of them on the street, they cost so much because the body degrades rapidly on the street until they require constant emergency healthcare costing hundreds of thousands in no time at all. but since it would be seen as unfair to house them, and no one seems willing to commit the insane ones, we pay millions in er visits instead

 

[swanysto]

I work for a company in Chicago that builds project housing. It is very sad to see what people do with free housing. By free I mean the tax payers pay for it, but it is free to them. They have no respect for the place they are given. Obviously these are not top of the line places, but they are brand new town homes with kitchens and baths.

When we go back through them, they have stains and holes in the walls, bullet holes on the outside and through windows. Used needles on the floors. Etc Etc..

So even when our money does go to "help the poor", they don't appreciate it. If you gave me a free place to stay and food stamps, I sure as heck would make that thing last as long as possible. Chicago winters get pretty brutal.

We actually had a case where some residents filled their bathtub with coal and cooked chicken in it.....they ended up burning the place down. Over thirty grand worth of damage that comes out of our pockets. Of course the state put them up in a brand new one. Sad really.

 

[silverpig]

We could call it District 9!

KT

I thought it was called Australia...

 

[ussfletcher]

I thought it was called Australia...

Only if they are criminals.

 

[Dominato3r]

I think its because the winter is less harsh there. Also are they going to convert that athletes village into some sort of affordable housing complex?

That would seem to be an easy solution

 

[Kyle]

I'm not sure I see the big deal w/ the injection sites- they're not providing the drugs...
These people have the drugs- it's just deciding to use a clean needle or a used needle...that's not really "enabling" an addiction- they're addicted and have their drugs already- they're getting high regardless...
Unless I'm mistaken about the injection sites and they are offering a means to the substances...

 

[Dominato3r]

Does the site provide the needles?

Because if not, that system is flawed

 

[KeithTalent]

I think its because the winter is less harsh there. Also are they going to convert that athletes village into some sort of affordable housing complex?

That would seem to be an easy solution

No, they are being sold as condos. Completely stupid as that would have been a perfect spot for that type of thing in my opinion.

They are building something near my place though I believe. :hmm:

KT