That admittedly works in a closed system...which we do not have in any country except North Korea. Redistribution is like minimum wage, in that it only adjusts the price FLOOR, not the CEILING.
That admittedly works in a closed system...which we do not have in any country except North Korea. Redistribution is like minimum wage, in that it only adjusts the price FLOOR, not the CEILING.We have these things because worker productivity is way, way up globally. The vast profits from those activities, under capitalism, accrue to the rich instead of the workers. Taxing the holy hell out of the rich will redistribute the fruits of labor back to the workers who created it. That the rich are unwilling to do this themselves is on them.
The floor needs to be fixed though. 90% marginal tax rates and luxury taxes on companies for high compensation packages (over $1 mil or so) fixes the ceiling.That admittedly works in a closed system...which we do not have in any country except North Korea. Redistribution is like minimum wage, in that it only adjusts the price FLOOR, not the CEILING.
Cause God, guns, and lib tears keep em coming back for more"Vast majority of Americans" have supported increasing taxes on the wealthy, not only for this purpose, but in general. Polls going back decades.
The real question is how the republican party lowers taxes for the wealthy every time they're in power, and never suffers the electoral consequences of doing so.
People in high COL states can fund savings and live just fine right now on 250k/year. Maybe they need to budget better if they can't make that level of income work.Doing well and "rich" are not the same things.
Go to a high COL state, fund your savings properly, and watch how fast it goes.
The savings rate for the US is still very low, and the vast majority do not have enough savings for retirement or to help their kids with stunting college debt that will further depress savings into the next generation.
Literally nobody cares what you "think" is honest or dishonest.Bullshit.
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Yeah, as if they're going to have an honest poll.
Again, I agree in theory. We all need to find a way forward , to being less shitty to one another. But price fixing won't work except in a closed system.The floor needs to be fixed though. 90% marginal tax rates and luxury taxes on companies for high compensation packages (over $1 mil or so) fixes the ceiling.
AFAIK the proposed tax on individual wages only applies to combined household income over 400K. All income before that level stay in the same brackets. Your warnings about these proposed tax increases will make the wealthy struggle just don't seem to add up.That's actual rich. They are casting the net wider than that, for little gain, but asking for lots of backlash for a bill that's already struggling to get passed
Going after a household with two professionals in the peak earnings years, while also trying to afford retirement, saving for kids college, heathcare is foolish politically.
20% of that poll you linked think $250K/yr it's rich. The poll asks "individuals" put the tax code considers households.
You'd be shocked how fast 250, even 350k goes when you are actually saving as you are supposed/need to. Nobody gets pensions and paid hc plans in retirement anymore. You have to save your ass off. $250k = not broke at 80.
$400k is more comfortable, but it's a joke to think they are the "rich". It's clearly upper middle class, and just tipping toes into the owner class, but they also get no tax breaks with the current tax code as it's usually mostly income tax at high rates.
Go after the truly rich that own big businesses and buildings, yet pay jack shit in tax. That's where all the wealth is, not some firefighter captain and their RN anesthetists spouse.
Too rich to be taxed. That's an amazing argument.Again, I agree in theory. We all need to find a way forward , to being less shitty to one another. But price fixing won't work except in a closed system.
Nothing keeps wealth in an open system but the willingness of the wealth-maker to be there. The wealthy can (and do) move when they choose to do so. It's a proven and time tested method for them to get what they want. If lower taxes exist in some other place...they will find their new residents rather quickly.
You know what wealthy people like? Stable governments, strong rule of law, and a known financial system.Again, I agree in theory. We all need to find a way forward , to being less shitty to one another. But price fixing won't work except in a closed system.
Nothing keeps wealth in an open system but the willingness of the wealth-maker to be there. The wealthy can (and do) move when they choose to do so. It's a proven and time tested method for them to get what they want. If lower taxes exist in some other place...they will find their new residents rather quickly.
Yeah, if that were true there’d be no billionaires left in the US now. They’d have left decades ago.Too rich to be taxed. That's an amazing argument.
LOL
Comparing the Fed spending money in struggling countries to doing it here at home where they are an integral part of running the country and often intertwined with state operations, is worse than an apples to oranges comparison.Not exactly. I referred to Federal Govt. The lower you go, the more effective they become.
I was actually part of the machine used to distribute wealth in Iraq. Money was passed out in CASH for the onset of the conflict. CAT-A (Civil Affairs Teams-"Away") teams carried cases full of money, and paid on the spot. Later in the conflict we went on paying via "projects" with contractors bilking everyone, and as the money continued flowing, it got to where local officials convinced everyone that they were the better choice for disbursement, then state etc. and we all know how that worked out...
I've worked humanitarian missions WITHOUT CASH, that gave more to the community than the trillions wasted "fixing" the ME. We gave time, understanding and expertise to help work out problems. My favorite introduction was "I'm Mr. "Insert Name" , I have no money, no governmental authority and no possibility of giving you anything today...how can I help you?" After a quick talk, they always found use for my team. I've worked in jungles, deserts, cities and farms. I've been shot at, lit on fire, blown up and worse whilst doing my job, but not once have I ever seen where the Federal govt did more than local or community involvement and donations.
The feds have their use....handling local affairs isn't one of them
So we must continue to grovel?Again, I agree in theory. We all need to find a way forward , to being less shitty to one another. But price fixing won't work except in a closed system.
Nothing keeps wealth in an open system but the willingness of the wealth-maker to be there. The wealthy can (and do) move when they choose to do so. It's a proven and time tested method for them to get what they want. If lower taxes exist in some other place...they will find their new residents rather quickly.
Again, I agree in theory. We all need to find a way forward , to being less shitty to one another. But price fixing won't work except in a closed system.
Nothing keeps wealth in an open system but the willingness of the wealth-maker to be there. The wealthy can (and do) move when they choose to do so. It's a proven and time tested method for them to get what they want. If lower taxes exist in some other place...they will find their new residents rather quickly.
What? And not enjoy the freedoms of Dubai?WTF? Lower taxes do exist in some other place, plenty of other places, yet they're still here.
lol. Of course you guys want to tax the rich. You guys don't pay taxes. Or very minimal. I also support any bill that tax you but not me.
Except it has worked in the past. It worked in the past in this country.Again, I agree in theory. We all need to find a way forward , to being less shitty to one another. But price fixing won't work except in a closed system.
Nothing keeps wealth in an open system but the willingness of the wealth-maker to be there. The wealthy can (and do) move when they choose to do so. It's a proven and time tested method for them to get what they want. If lower taxes exist in some other place...they will find their new residents rather quickly.
when did these rich people actually pay their taxes? Much like Gates, Bezos and the Orange man, tax loopholes are always there to make sure they never pay more than the rest of us. Let's not even go into offshore accounts and loss leader business ventures, casinos restaurants and TV shows.Except it has worked in the past. It worked in the past in this country.
Those "loopholes" we're things like reinvesting profits into growing the business. That meant more jobs and better paying jobs.when did these rich people actually pay their taxes? Much like Gates, Bezos and the Orange man, tax loopholes are always there to make sure they never pay more than the rest of us. Let's not even go into offshore accounts and loss leader business ventures, casinos restaurants and TV shows.
I live in literally one of the highest cost of living spots on the planet (SF Bay Area). Household income varies a bit but has generally been around 140-155k for the 8-9 years or so and we save on average 25-30k a year on top of our 401k's. A decent percentage (if I had to put a number on it I would say about 35%) of our yearly savings goes towards fun and wants and desires, and the rest goes to investments and retirement and other long term goals. It is done by living smart - Putting 30% down on a house that cost under $400k in a region where well over a million asking is considered normal. Buying used affordable cars (my 2013 Jetta only cost my 11k 4 years ago and was paid off in under a year and I will be driving it for at least another 4 or 5 years if not more). Making other smart choices when it comes to household goods, electronics etc, for example, I think there is little reason to pay $1500 or an Iphone when there are perfectly acceptable phones for $150 or less that are just fine. We travel regularly with at least 1 big trip every 18-24 months or so, mostly US/CA/MX based but have been abroad several times, Europe, Africa, East Asia, although we really do enjoy day trips and weekend get-aways that are mostly local to us. We still have luxuries in our life, an awesome home theater and a doubly awesome stereo, 3 classic cars that are each worth a pretty penny etc.Doing well and "rich" are not the same things.
Go to a high COL state, fund your savings properly, and watch how fast it goes.
The savings rate for the US is still very low, and the vast majority do not have enough savings for retirement or to help their kids with stunting college debt that will further depress savings into the next generation.
AFAIK the proposed tax on individual wages only applies to combined household income over 400K. All income before that level stay in the same brackets. Your warnings about these proposed tax increases will make the wealthy struggle just don't seem to add up.
So we are going to have the government trickle down money? The rich didn't put Democrats in office to be taxed anymore than they currently are. Corporate tax rates will go up which is a regressive tax.you don't know how much I pay in taxes
the rich and corporations have been getting preferential treatment on taxes since at least reagan with his trickle down economics which never trickled down
I could do a detailed breakdown of spending for such a household, maybe I will later, but first, please answer what is the problem you are trying to solve for here?
You want to redirect a portion of some people's income from their family and to the federal government. Why?
Are the politics beneficial?
The Ds hold the slightest of margins in the House, tied in Senate, and are heading into an off year election where the majority historically loses seats. Ok.
Will this help Ds win in 2022?
How did they win in 2020?
Shifting voting patterns in the suburbs won the WH and Senate.
Ok. These "rich" $250 to 4/500k income earners... Where do they live?
Suburbs.
Generally raising people's taxes is negative towards election chances, and margins are slim, and losing means Bidens agenda dies until a majority can be win back... But ok. Maybe there is another reason?
Budgetary reasons?
How much will be raised off of this portion of the electorate? Is that a deal breaker? We already have significant deficits, this is the dollar that breaks us? No other offsets or revenue sources can be looked at?
Doubt it. Certainly not worth endangering the majority for.
So what then? Fairness? Inequality?
Is it really the upper middle class hoarding the nation's wealth?
Shall we look at data?
First off, these tax proposals go after INCOME, but income doesn't necessarily translate to WEALTH.
A 50 yo middle/sr manager who worked his way up the ladder didn't necessarily start well off. Did they inherit lots of generational wealth? Did they not probably struggle for years paying off student loans to get them into their job? Aren't they busy saving for retirement as to not depend on government support?
Usually yes to all these.
Net worth is probably comfortable, but they are still concerned about being prepared for retirement and care in old age. They may still be caring for elderly parents even.
That's not where all the money is locked up.
You have to focus on wealth. That's what Warren has smartly proposed.
Here's who has all the money, and how is been trending.
It's not your well to do neighbor who has one more garage on his house than you, or affords to pay the fee for the exit row seat on the American airlines flight. He's right at the bottom of that asymptote too.
It's the obscenely rich whom you never meet because they are too rich to live in your universe.
Your neighbor isn't spending billions to build his own personal dick missile to fly Captain Kirk into orbit.
That's where the money is. Democrats shouldn't be so stupid to fall into the middle class warfare trap to score some cheap political points with the base, but lose the election and not address the actual problem.
So really, what are you trying to gain with your proposal?
So we are going to have the government trickle down money? The rich didn't put Democrats in office to be taxed anymore than they currently are. Corporate tax rates will go up which is a regressive tax.
You probably didn't get any granite counter tops. Oh yea, that's passé. I meant quartz.I live in literally one of the highest cost of living spots on the planet (SF Bay Area). Household income varies a bit but has generally been around 140-155k for the 8-9 years or so and we save on average 25-30k a year on top of our 401k's. A decent percentage (if I had to put a number on it I would say about 35%) of our yearly savings goes towards fun and wants and desires, and the rest goes to investments and retirement and other long term goals. It is done by living smart - Putting 30% down on a house that cost under $400k in a region where well over a million asking is considered normal. Buying used affordable cars (my 2013 Jetta only cost my 11k 4 years ago and was paid off in under a year and I will be driving it for at least another 4 or 5 years if not more). Making other smart choices when it comes to household goods, electronics etc, for example, I think there is little reason to pay $1500 or an Iphone when there are perfectly acceptable phones for $150 or less that are just fine. We travel regularly with at least 1 big trip every 18-24 months or so, mostly US/CA/MX based but have been abroad several times, Europe, Africa, East Asia, although we really do enjoy day trips and weekend get-aways that are mostly local to us. We still have luxuries in our life, an awesome home theater and a doubly awesome stereo, 3 classic cars that are each worth a pretty penny etc.
People who make 250k or more and cant figure out how to live and save money without crying will just get pointed at and laughed loudly at by me, doubly so if they are in low COL areas making big money.
bullshitter lies again hahahahaSo we are going to have the government trickle down money? The rich didn't put Democrats in office to be taxed anymore than they currently are. Corporate tax rates will go up which is a regressive tax.