[VC]NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980, GTX 980 SLI, GTX 970, 3DMark performance

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positivedoppler

Golden Member
Apr 30, 2012
1,112
174
106
So they still exist, people who think there'll ever be 20nm GPUs.

Apple is using 20nm for the iPhones. That has 2 implications:
- 20nm is ready for very large volume.
- very large volume eaten by Apple.

If Nvidia and AMD are still releasing 28nm today, it will be a year before you see a follow-up, at least. By that time, 16FF will be ready for production.

There's not going to be a 20nm discrete GPU from either company. Ever. Just let the idea die in peace.

AMD has said multiple times that 20 nm is a very important node to them. Either it's for the CPU or it's for their GPU.
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
1,663
570
136
AMD has said multiple times that 20 nm is a very important node to them. Either it's for the CPU or it's for their GPU.

AMD has historically been more aggressive in moving to new nodes than Nvidia. And right now, they need it - without a die shrink, they're going to have a hard time competing against big-core Maxwell. I'm convinced that Tonga was originally designed for 20nm and only released on the older process because of factors beyond AMD's control.

AMD is planning to crash Nvidia's Friday event with 15,000 fanboys - that's not usually how companies act when they're confident about their own products. Maybe they should spend less money on their marketing department and more on engineering for GCN 2.0.
 

JohnWayne74

Member
May 27, 2014
38
0
0
Too many entitled people here expecting the huge +25% plus performance increases from years ago. Those times are long gone
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
126
Too many entitled people here expecting the huge +25% plus performance increases from years ago. Those times are long gone

Entitled ? Laughable! Entitlement is generally wanting something for nothing as a hand-out. This is our hard earned scratch in exchange for the card.

And the improvements of the past were 70-80% each new architectural generation, not 25%. 25% is what we started seeing with the first 28nm products like gtx 680 and 7970. Now we are down to what looks like 5-10%, maybe nothing at all, and we're 'entitled' to think that is crap... :\
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Too many entitled people here expecting the huge +25% plus performance increases from years ago. Those times are long gone
lol please lets not break out the word "entitled". and perhaps you should pay attention has Nvidia just took a mid range gpu and beat the 780 by over 25%. and did that while using the same node and using way less power. a real replacement at the same 250 watt TDP would have been crazy fast.

the issue here is that 600 bucks would be insane and make no sense at all. most of those willing to drop 600 bucks already have a 780 ti. if Nvidia wants to ask 600 bucks then they need to have gpu that actually beats the 780 ti by a huge amount. they could have easily done that with a 200 watt card. IMO the 980 and 970 should be called 970 and 960 and be priced accordingly.
 

dmoney1980

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2008
2,471
38
91

I'm waiting to see how the 970's overclock, specifically on aftermarket cards. If the 970's OC well, then the $ difference between the 980 and the 970 could affect the 980's sales, especially for those upgrading from a GTX 5x / 6x / Radeon 79x / 28x series cards. Not many people want to plop down $600 for a 1440p / 1080p card, but an overclocked 970 that comes close to a 780ti / 980 in performance will sell really well!

Additionally, given their low TDP, I'd imagine that you could run 2 in SLI and not have much of a problem with heat with the proper case.
 

garagisti

Senior member
Aug 7, 2007
592
7
81
lol please lets not break out the word "entitled". and perhaps you should pay attention has Nvidia just took a mid range gpu and beat the 780 by over 25%. and did that while using the same node and using way less power. a real replacement at the same 250 watt TDP would have been crazy fast.

the issue here is that 600 bucks would be insane and make no sense at all. most of those willing to drop 600 bucks already have a 780 ti. if Nvidia wants to ask 600 bucks then they need to have gpu that actually beats the 780 ti by a huge amount. they could have easily done that with a 200 watt card. IMO the 980 and 970 should be called 970 and 960 and be priced accordingly.
That's the key. Having expectations from a product when you pay $600 is not entitlement. If it is, so be it, but paying as much surely allows one to feel entitled to certain performance from a part of 2014, and not from year 2013. It is baffling if the price is about the same, and so is the performance, and the only differentiators are some features like HDMI 2.0 etc. The card better come loaded, and with a pizza and free beer at that price. You see aftermarket 780's going for about 400, and they'd fare slightly better i reckon at higher than 1080p. 290x is where the money at higher than 1080p res.

I've a 4k screen and now waiting for a card which will do it good for cheap...
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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AMD has historically been more aggressive in moving to new nodes than Nvidia. And right now, they need it - without a die shrink, they're going to have a hard time competing against Maxwell.

fixed by removing the "big core" phrase. AMD may not be able to keep up technologically, but it seems like Nvidia wants to price themselves out of perf/$ contention, unfortunately.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,119
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Wondering what the plan would be there. You can't market on better perf/w without more performance as well. Just offering that well it's the same performance but uses less power is not inspiring upgrades.

Why not. NV did just that with the 750ti versus the 260X.
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
Supposedly the 19th (Friday).

It appears that they will probably announce them at Game24, with reviews Friday. (Based on Videocardz.com info)
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
And not to get too personal here, but when the 750 Ti first came out, you were extremely critical of it, and yet I've seen you recommend it over and over in the past few months. Perhaps you grew to appreciate its qualities and unique market niche. Is the GTX 980 so different in your eyes?

That's because there were many PC gamers who either had a very weak PSU or specifically wanted a card with the lowest possible power usage for games in the sub-$150 bracket. However from a gaming perspective, I'd pick a $145 R9 270 or a $145 GTX660 as they offer 27-31% more gaming performance for $20 or so more. Thus, as a gaming card, I think 750Ti for $120-130 is way too expensive for what it offers but if someone has PSU or cooling limitations, it may be their best option

980 is completely different. I find it hard if not impossible to believe that more than 1% of PC gamers in the world can't use a 250W 780TI reference blower in their rig but can a 165W 980. Since the heat is exhausted outside o the case in both instances, it wouldn't matter unless you had a 350W PSU limit in a very thin console-like chassis.

People who buy $500+ GPUs don't generally have 300-350W PSUs that they have to settle for a 60W GPU. If someone is spending $500-600 on a new flagship, they want:

1) Significant improvement in performance from the last flagship -- or otherwise the opportunity cost of waiting a full year from 780Ti is not worth it (i.e., in that case why not enjoy 780Ti for $100 more for 12 months up to now?).

2) Someone who is spending $500+ on a GPU is unlikely to be counting pennies saved on electricity moving from a 250W card to a 165W one. There isn't enough reason to upgrade since you'd lose more money on depreciation selling your previous 780/780Ti.

3) If you are coming from a 680//770/7970Ghz and need more power at 1600P, add 15% on top of 780Ti's 139% here and you get about 60-80% more performance over those cards. Problem is you can pick up a used 7970Ghz for $170-180 easily and 680 used for $250 shouldn't be hard to find. So this gamer would be better off grabbing one of those as well.

4) If you want the most powerhouse 4K GPU to last 2-3 years fitted in a single slot mobo and small chassis, just like 690 revolutionized this space, it would be fitting to wait for $1K+ GTX990 then. This is a very unique space since even today GTX690 still holds its own with nothing really superior to it for this usage besides possibly an overclocked 780Ti.

Having said that, NV will price their cards what they can get away with. I predict $349-399 for 970 and $549 for 980. This gives them a bit of room for them to either lower prices on these 4GB cards once R9 3xx launches OR a bit of leeway to introduce higher priced 8GB cards later.

780 non-TI that's not OCed maybe. I have trouble believing a 7970 OC CF beats an OC 780 Ti. Agreed on all your other points.

I think you missed 7970s OC. 280Xs beat 780Ti by 23% at 1080p.

--

I really like the style of the reference blower NV will carry-over with 970/980. Interesting that VC reports both of these cards will use the same blower which seems overkill on a 970.




The power delivery looks like a slightly improved version of the 680's

680


980


Interesting that neither MSI nor Asus is following the reference design of 3x DP for their after-market cards.


 
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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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I really like the style of the reference blower NV will carry-over with 970/980. Interesting that VC reports both of these cards will use the same blower which seems overkill on a 970.

If it keeps the noise and thermals low, then it isn't overkill from a performance standpoint (IMO). Barely good enough is meh. On the other hand, if the BOM is as high as has been reported / rumored for the Titan-style cooler, bleh.
 

JohnWayne74

Member
May 27, 2014
38
0
0
lol please lets not break out the word "entitled". and perhaps you should pay attention has Nvidia just took a mid range gpu and beat the 780 by over 25%. and did that while using the same node and using way less power. a real replacement at the same 250 watt TDP would have been crazy fast.

the issue here is that 600 bucks would be insane and make no sense at all. most of those willing to drop 600 bucks already have a 780 ti. if Nvidia wants to ask 600 bucks then they need to have gpu that actually beats the 780 ti by a huge amount. they could have easily done that with a 200 watt card. IMO the 980 and 970 should be called 970 and 960 and be priced accordingly.

I am coming from a 670, this upgrade is HUGE for me... so therefore I respectfully disagree.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
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fixed by removing the "big core" phrase. AMD may not be able to keep up technologically, but it seems like Nvidia wants to price themselves out of perf/$ contention, unfortunately.

How long do you think until AMD is able to release a GCN 2.0 part?

We've had very close launches from both companies of new tech in the last few generations, the last big gap was Evergreen vs Fermi, I believe its 9 months delayed.

Somehow, I feel as though until the next node, these 28nm delays will not be very painful, certainly plenty who wanted something in the high-end price range have already upgraded to R290/X & 780/ti. If these come smack into the same performance & price range, I agree its not attractive for consumers.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
Kepler to Fermi was also a huge gap. Too many people compare GTX 680 to GTX 580, when if you're comparing the architecture, you're comparing GK110 to GF110. And GK110 absolutely annihilates GF110 in every single way possible. In many cases, GK110 outperforms GF110 far more than the typical generational gap.

It's just that Nvidia now seems to have fallen into an Intel type release cycle - the midrange parts first with the high end parts next year. We've seen Intel doing this since Sandy Bridge now. It's certainly slowed down the rate of performance increases we have seen, but maybe this is just something we have to accept as the smaller processes. Yields may not be high enough early on to get the big chips out right away.
 
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Mand

Senior member
Jan 13, 2014
664
0
0
If it keeps the noise and thermals low, then it isn't overkill from a performance standpoint (IMO). Barely good enough is meh. On the other hand, if the BOM is as high as has been reported / rumored for the Titan-style cooler, bleh.

The BOM is often overstated. The original 690 cooler was extremely expensive, due to being made out of magnesium. They've since switched to aluminum, which drops the price considerably.

It's still not trivial, but it's not as high as people like to think.

its great! DP > DVI and they need 3 to do gsync surround off 1 card

Exactly this. 3 DP on one card has been something specifically asked for in order to support surround G-Sync, and that's the main reason why it's there.
 

jadders

Junior Member
Sep 16, 2014
2
0
0
>> Think these new cards will be bundled with the new Borderlands like most of the old cards?

Nope, it's going to be Goat Simulator 2000. *confirmed*
 

Pia

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,563
0
0
3) If you are coming from a 680//770/7970Ghz and need more power at 1600P, add 15% on top of 780Ti's 139% here and you get about 60-80% more performance over those cards. Problem is you can pick up a used 7970Ghz for $170-180 easily and 680 used for $250 shouldn't be hard to find. So this gamer would be better off grabbing one of those as well.
That would only apply to a small minority of people.
1) Many simply do not want SLI/Crossfire.
2) Many have a weaker card than the ones you list, and doubling down on slow cards makes no sense.
3) Many will not have the PSU capacity and/or mobo for it, and their case cooling may be a problem as well.
4) Many do not want to buy used stuff or do not have good access to it.
5) Selling a card & going to a fast single card solution doesn't cost that much more.

I don't see how the new cards would not be attractive to the vast majority of upgraders who weren't at the 780/290 level before.
 

boozzer

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2012
1,549
18
81
Supposedly the 19th (Friday).

It appears that they will probably announce them at Game24, with reviews Friday. (Based on Videocardz.com info)
thanks. can't wait till we know for sure if the 900 series is a dud or not.
 
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