Vega/Navi Rumors (Updated)

[swilli89]

NVIDIA didn't have to show anything because it is the market leader and AMD didn't have anything to compete in the first place.

This is becoming more and more a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So nVidia has something good in the product pipeline they "didn't have to show anything because it is the market leader" but if AMD is being tight lipped in a similar fashion you find it suspicious.

 

[96Firebird]

Let's say AMD does have a stellar product in their hands; why would it be advantageous to NOT show it off?

 

[Elfear]

If the Timespy score is accurate and Vega regressed in performance in comparison to Fiji, it will be Bulldozer Part II. I sure hope that is not what AMD accomplished in the last 2 yrs.

 

[ElFenix]

This isn't the "Hunt the Shill" thread. Keep it Vega-centric.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[Elfear]

Let's say AMD does have a stellar product in their hands; why would it be advantageous to NOT show it off?

There have been times in their past when they didn't show off a lot (Ryzen didn't have a ton of publicity from what I remember, 4870, Hawaii, etc. None of those were faster than the competition on average, but they competed very well). I'm hoping AMD is being tight-lipped because we really need more competition in the high-end GPU arena.

 

[crisium]

Let's say AMD does have a stellar product in their hands; why would it be advantageous to NOT show it off?

The only reason I could think of is to make sure Nvidia keeps their high prices. To either undercut them and be the hero, or to essentially match them in high prices because they cannot afford to sell low. In either scenario AMD does not want a $500 1080 Ti, for example.

But... people are buying $700 1080 Ti's right now. Some positive leaks could make people wait.

 

[swilli89]

The only reason I could think of is to make sure Nvidia keeps their high prices. To either undercut them and be the hero, or to essentially match them in high prices because they cannot afford to sell low. In either scenario AMD does not want a $500 1080 Ti, for example.

But... people are buying $700 1080 Ti's right now. Some positive leaks could make people wait.

As much as nVidia tries to act like they aren't concerned with AMD they basically fine tune their release cadence and price discounts to whatever AMD is doing. Its best they keep nVidia in the dark as long as possible even if Vega is a stunner.

 

[Markfw]

The only reason I could think of is to make sure Nvidia keeps their high prices. To either undercut them and be the hero, or to essentially match them in high prices because they cannot afford to sell low. In either scenario AMD does not want a $500 1080 Ti, for example.

But... people are buying $700 1080 Ti's right now. Some positive leaks could make people wait.

I have one shipping any day. If vega was close to it in performance at a lower price I very well might have cancelled my order, so yes, I agree.

 

[swilli89]

I have one shipping any day. If vega was close to it in performance at a lower price I very well might have cancelled my order, so yes, I agree.

Despite there probably being some folks in your position, it may be such that its still in AMD's interest to let a few more sales slip to 1080ti while keeping Vega a total secret. Not to mention I bet Vega doesn't really ship until the second half of June so you would have been waiting another month at least.

 

[William Gaatjes]

NVIDIA didn't have to show anything because it is the market leader and AMD didn't have anything to compete in the first place.

Nvidia will not show anything in advance, because it would ruin their own market position. Keep the titan xp in mind and the 1080 ti. If they had shown the performance and price estimation close after the titan xp, nobody would have gone for the titan xp. Nvidia is smart to keep everything a secret. Nvidia is in a similar position as Intel is, these companies do not want to ruin their own product line sales estimate.

 

[tviceman]

Plus how many times did Nvidia show off 1080 Ti? Titan Xp? None? Oh...

Why in the world would Nvidia show off new products ahead of launch or tip it's hand when their only competition is itself?

 

[piesquared]

Why in the world would Nvidia show off new products ahead of launch or tip it's hand when their only competition is itself?

Why would AMD? They don't owe anything to you. Enough of the excuses for why nvidia doesn't have to be held to the same standards as AMD. I don't care why nvidia would or wouldn't 'tip it's hand', it makes no difference to me, the same standards should apply. And if nobody here has any internal information on their products (price, performance, positioning, etc, etc.), it's beyond me how they think they know better than AMD themselves on how best to release their products. It's telling though that one of the posters here claims to have solid information from an investor of all people, that Vega is delayed for x amount of time. This is an enthusiast hardware forum yet it seems 90% of the posts here are motivated by people's interest in the stock market.

 

[Bacon1]

Why in the world would Nvidia show off new products ahead of launch or tip it's hand when their only competition is itself?

Why would AMD allow Nvidia plenty of time for pre-release price drops? Why do you expect AMD to show their hand when you already know why its a bad idea to do so?

I swear, the same people that claim AMD overhyped Polaris are now saying AMD doesn't release enough information

 

[happy medium]

Anyway, if Vega does manage to beat Nvidia's best offerings, lets face it, it would be nothing short of a miracle

I think it would be expected for Vega to beat Pascal after the 13 months Nvidia's high end has been on the market.
If they don't beat a gtx1080ti by 20 or 30% the Vega is a failure IMHO, especially
with Volta 6 months away from the June Vega release.

WHat do I think? History repeats itself.
I think that big Vega vs the gtx1080ti will be the next 290x vs 780ti.
Before Vega ever actually matches the gtx1080ti performance, Nvidia will release the GV104 Volta (A.K.A the gtx980) that beats the Vega (A.K.A. 290x) soundly.

So ~ January next year the gtx1080ti/Titan x will be old news (almost 2 years old) and Vega (11 months old) will only be a few% slower but the new 35%+ faster Volta gpu's will be the one to have for high end guys.

Vega needs to compete with Volta gtx 2080 performance now, so it needs to be ~20% faster than a gtx1080ti at release and about $650.

If it doesn't, you have to ask yourself," what has AMD been doing for over 2 years"?

 

[Qwertilot]

Mostly sorting Ryzen out so they actually have enough sales to support sane levels of R&D going forward! They seem to have done OK there.

 

[happy medium]

Mostly sorting Ryzen out so they actually have enough sales to support sane levels of R&D going forward! They seem to have done OK there.

What does Ryzen have to do with the rumor performance of Vega gpu's?
I think your in the wrong thread buddy.

 

[Qwertilot]

It was you wondering what AMD would have been doing for the past few years if Vega wasn't great AMD have had relatively limited resources and their top priority has not been their GPU line up.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

It was you wondering what AMD would have been doing for the past few years if Vega wasn't great AMD have had relatively limited resources and their top priority has not been their GPU line up.

Didn't Raja Koduri say something along those lines about Polaris? That he would've loved to do a top-to-bottom launch but they didn't have the resources to do both at once?

 

[happy medium]

It was you wondering what AMD would have been doing for the past few years if Vega wasn't great AMD have had relatively limited resources and their top priority has not been their GPU line up.

Sorry I misunderstood.

I'll rephrase , 'what has the AMD graphics division been doing for the past 2 years if Vega can't beat 11 month old gtx1080ti performance?

I believe the most used excuse was the HBM 2 delay, but that's seems incorrect now.

The point of my post was why would anyone think that Vega equaling year old gtx1080ti/Titan performance be a miracle?
See post #2490

 

[caswow]

didnt get the 1080ti released like a few weeks ago?

 

[happy medium]

didnt get the 1080ti released like a few weeks ago?

But the same performance was released in July/August of last year almost 11 months before the release of Vega. We hope the Vega release will be middle of June , correct?.

edited for "before"

 

[caswow]

But the same performance was released in July/August of last year almost 11 months after the release of Vega. We hope the Vega release will be middle of June , correct?.

i expect it to be as fast as an 1080ti.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I think it would be expected for Vega to beat Pascal after the 13 months Nvidia's high end has been on the market.
If they don't beat a gtx1080ti by 20 or 30% the Vega is a failure IMHO, especially
with Volta 6 months away from the June Vega release.

WHat do I think? History repeats itself.
I think that big Vega vs the gtx1080ti will be the next 290x vs 780ti.
Before Vega ever actually matches the gtx1080ti performance, Nvidia will release the GV104 Volta (A.K.A the gtx980) that beats the Vega (A.K.A. 290x) soundly.

So ~ January next year the gtx1080ti/Titan x will be old news (almost 2 years old) and Vega (11 months old) will only be a few% slower but the new 35%+ faster Volta gpu's will be the one to have for high end guys.

Vega needs to compete with Volta gtx 2080 performance now, so it needs to be ~20% faster than a gtx1080ti at release and about $650.

If it doesn't, you have to ask yourself," what has AMD been doing for over 2 years"?

I seriously doubt that Nvidia will make such leaps with Volta without staying directly with HBM2 and a large amount of SM units and another huge jump in clockspeed and stay in a similar tdp class as pascal.
Pascal had a clockspeed advantage and some sort of very good tile based rendering. Tile based rendering is good because one can keep a lot in the local cache and does not need to access "slow" gpu memory all the time. And using smart in advance prefetching hides the latency when doing the inevitable memory access while reading data. I am seriously wondering if Volta will be running at 2GHz base and higher while keeping a similar low tdp as pascal. And pascal seems a pretty optimized architecture.
I also wonder if the whole principle of the compute ACE from AMD is patented and locked down by AMD. If so, i wonder if Nvidia can do something similar.

 

[Mockingbird]

Why would AMD? They don't owe anything to you. Enough of the excuses for why nvidia doesn't have to be held to the same standards as AMD. I don't care why nvidia would or wouldn't 'tip it's hand', it makes no difference to me, the same standards should apply. And if nobody here has any internal information on their products (price, performance, positioning, etc, etc.), it's beyond me how they think they know better than AMD themselves on how best to release their products. It's telling though that one of the posters here claims to have solid information from an investor of all people, that Vega is delayed for x amount of time. This is an enthusiast hardware forum yet it seems 90% of the posts here are motivated by people's interest in the stock market.

Before Ryzen was released, AMD did two big events when almost everything about the Zen microarchitecture was revealed.

Before Radeon RX Vega was released, AMD would only do one event when only a few details were revealed?

 

[caswow]

Before Ryzen was released, AMD did two big events when almost everything about the Zen microarchitecture was revealed.

Before Radeon RX Vega was released, AMD would only do one event when only a few details were revealed?

so do you know anything or are you just pulling things out of your ssa?