Vega/Navi Rumors (Updated)

[mohit9206]

1070 is under $350 and 1080 is under $500, what can Vega possibly do to offer better perf/$? Amd can't sell it for a loss, at best they can offer similar perf/$.
But then what was point of such a long wait if in the end, its not going to offer better value than Nvidia?
For those with freesync monitors, same perf/$ is good enough as they are forced to buy amd but for everyone else, not much incentive to buy Vega.
After looking at how AMD priced the Fury/Fury X i don't think amd cares about providing better value than Nvidia. They are pretty much hoping that amd fans buy their card that is if they have somehow avoided the temptation to buy Pascal thus far.
But once the prices and specifications are announced and then come the reviews, the bubble will burst yet again.

 

[CatMerc]

1070 is under $350 and 1080 is under $500, what can Vega possibly do to offer better perf/$? Amd can't sell it for a loss, at best they can offer similar perf/$.
But then what was point of such a long wait if in the end, its not going to offer better value than Nvidia?
For those with freesync monitors, same perf/$ is good enough as they are forced to buy amd but for everyone else, not much incentive to buy Vega.
After looking at how AMD priced the Fury/Fury X i don't think amd cares about providing better value than Nvidia. They are pretty much hoping that amd fans buy their card that is if they have somehow avoided the temptation to buy Pascal thus far.
But once the prices and specifications are announced and then come the reviews, the bubble will burst yet again.

Fury X pricing was pretty much set in stone by the time the 980 Ti came around. Remember that the Fury X was intended to give the Titan X a competitor. Compared to a 1000$ card, the Fury X at 650$ would have been great value.

Then 980 Ti happened literally two weeks before its launch.

 

[Bacon1]

1070 is under $350 and 1080 is under $500, what can Vega possibly do to offer better perf/$? Amd can't sell it for a loss, at best they can offer similar perf/$.

What can Volta offer that Pascal currently can't?

But then what was point of such a long wait if in the end, its not going to offer better value than Nvidia?
For those with freesync monitors, same perf/$ is good enough as they are forced to buy amd but for everyone else, not much incentive to buy Vega.
After looking at how AMD priced the Fury/Fury X i don't think amd cares about providing better value than Nvidia. They are pretty much hoping that amd fans buy their card that is if they have somehow avoided the temptation to buy Pascal thus far.
But once the prices and specifications are announced and then come the reviews, the bubble will burst yet again.

People are constantly buying video cards. 1070 and 1080 sales haven't stopped so even if Vega is only competitive with them they'll still sell.

 

[nad-]

Seems entirely pointless to bring Fiji to 14nm if Vega exists. The architecture is already made, the R&D has been spent. It wouldn't be any cheaper to bring Fiji to 14nm than to create a smaller Vega.

As for Pascal, it didn't automatically benefit from the new process in terms of clockspeeds. NVIDIA tweaked it so it can do it. If you read the Polaris whitepaper, RX 480's clockspeed bump was mostly from some clever circuit design rather than the process.

The thing is I fully believe 'big' Vega(Vega 10 as of now) will end up around 1080ti/Titan XPv2 territory based on its die size, notable architectural changes and projected clockspeed, assuming nothing goes wrong.
Now the problem with that is that there's a large gulf between a GP102 and GP104 that no amount of cut down Vega 10 can hope to fill up, so either AMD has a different, smaller die to compete with GP104 or they're planning to sell the 500mm^2 Vega 10 at a 30% underclock with cut off shaders, which seems really silly, even for a Nano-like GPU.
Or maybe they don't even plan to make a GP104 competitor, but that seems like a pretty terrible business move.

There's also a chance these 'leaks' could be mobile chips, but that also smells fishy.
Or they could just be the early ES running god knows what drivers with god knows how much hardware features enabled, in fact I remember the compubench :C1 GPU making the rounds recently, the very same leak that came out some 2 months ago everyone seems to have forgotten.

The most interesting thing about all of this is how close AMD is keeping its cards close to its chest.

 

[maddie]

I'm fairly certain I heard Lisa Su mention it in the investor call. I may be wrong.

Even if I am wrong: http://semiengineering.com/to-7nm-and-beyond/
Design costs rise by 3x going from 28nm to 14nm.

I was going to reply but changed my mind.
Is there any way to cancel a post before posting, like in the previous system?

 

[Markfw]

I was going to reply but changed my mind.
Is there any way to cancel a post before posting, like in the previous system?

I don't know of a way, I tried to refresh the page, but it still saved a draft copy. You just remove all text I guess, except leave <deleted> or something.

 

[Ajay]

Same, found out the only way to do it seems to be by deleting all the text kept in the 'Draft'. Have had a number of Oops - nvm! posts with Xenforo.

 

[tential]

Fury X pricing was pretty much set in stone by the time the 980 Ti came around. Remember that the Fury X was intended to give the Titan X a competitor. Compared to a 1000$ card, the Fury X at 650$ would have been great value.

Then 980 Ti happened literally two weeks before its launch.

The 980ti is not a surprise product. Stop it.
The whole premise is so wrong it hurts

 

[maddie]

Markfw & Ajay, thanks guys.

Change without progress. The bane of the modern world.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

The 980ti is not a surprise product. Stop it.
The whole premise is so wrong it hurts

I think the pricing was a bit of a surprise, as well as 1080ti pricing. Given that the Titan variants of their respective generations increased in price, the expectation was that the ti versions would be equally marked up. It seems for what it's worth NVIDIA has realized $699 is about the limit those beyond the bleeding edge adopters are willing to pay. This time around there should be absolutely no surprises as NVIDIA is executing like clockwork and outside of extreme incompetence the writing has been on the wall since the Titan X Pascal launched.

My two cents on the matter is that this is the beginning of Raja's vision for Radeon, and he is taking every precaution available to make sure this is the new brand image to match. Stable drivers on launch, a well priced product with higher efficiency than previous designs. Navi will be the true realization of his long term plan for Radeon and I think the silence on these matters has everything to do with how crucial these launches will be to the new image of the brand,

 

[Crono]

I was going to reply but changed my mind.
Is there any way to cancel a post before posting, like in the previous system?

Hit the floppy disk icon in the reply/edit menu, and delete draft from there.

 

[Markfw]

Hit the floppy disk icon in the reply/edit menu, and delete draft from there.

That didn;t work

 

[tential]

I think the pricing was a bit of a surprise, as well as 1080ti pricing. Given that the Titan variants of their respective generations increased in price, the expectation was that the ti versions would be equally marked up. It seems for what it's worth NVIDIA has realized $699 is about the limit those beyond the bleeding edge adopters are willing to pay. This time around there should be absolutely no surprises as NVIDIA is executing like clockwork and outside of extreme incompetence the writing has been on the wall since the Titan X Pascal launched.

My two cents on the matter is that this is the beginning of Raja's vision for Radeon, and he is taking every precaution available to make sure this is the new brand image to match. Stable drivers on launch, a well priced product with higher efficiency than previous designs. Navi will be the true realization of his long term plan for Radeon and I think the silence on these matters has everything to do with how crucial these launches will be to the new image of the brand,

No..
Not only does this not work, it's even more pathetically sad that people were surprised AGAIN after the 980ti launch with the 1080ti launch...

The fact that people think that 2 weeks before fury x launched amd drastically changed pricing because of the 980ti is hilarious.

How clueless are people to the workings of large companies....
You'd think gpus, drivers, and business decisions were made and executed overnight with how people talk on here.

Edit : what's even more sad is the same thing will happen next year... 1180ti will come out and it will be a "massive surprise" and the performance will be "unknown" even though the titan chip will already be out and amd will have no idea what the competition looks like....

These discussions get boring when even in hindsight people can't seem to figure this out.

 

[Mockingbird]

Oh, look! AMD's partnership with Bethesda is already paying off!

Trolling isn't allowed. It needs to stop.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Malogeek]

Can we get rid of this damn troll?

Partnership is regarding future titles, specifically moving to Vulkan API. Also Prey has been in development for years and the partnership was just announced. Those results for Prey are inline with Cryengine expectations.

 

[zinfamous]

Same, found out the only way to do it seems to be by deleting all the text kept in the 'Draft'. Have had a number of Oops - nvm! posts with Xenforo.

for me, text just remains in that draft spot at the bottom of the page if I don't delete it fast enough. just hovering there, for eternity, until I make a new post with that draft. It's annoying.

 

[Crono]

That didn;t work

You still have to delete the text, it just keeps it from remembering it. Useful more if you are going back to make an edit, change your mind, and don't want it remembering the change for next time.

A cancel button would been nice.

Can we get rid of this damn troll?

The charts are useful, at least, I was wondering if a title like Prey could run 4k60 at very high settings. Looks like it takes a 1080 or greater to do it, though.

 

[Malogeek]

The charts are useful, at least, I was wondering if a title like Prey could run 4k60 at very high settings. Looks like it takes a 1080 or greater to do it, though.

The charts are useful, though more appropriate in the Prey benchmarks thread. The comments regarding the partnership is not useful and simply trolling.

 

[Paratus]

The charts are useful, though more appropriate in the Prey benchmarks thread. The comments regarding the partnership is not useful and simply trolling.

Here's another game where 4K very high fits just fine in 4GB HBM.

 

[beginner99]

Is that what it officially looks like in Steam? Or is that a shop?

fake:

http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=361762982901db1c7a49d1fd77ef01a87feb1261.291406

 

[CatMerc]

No..
Not only does this not work, it's even more pathetically sad that people were surprised AGAIN after the 980ti launch with the 1080ti launch...

The fact that people think that 2 weeks before fury x launched amd drastically changed pricing because of the 980ti is hilarious.

How clueless are people to the workings of large companies....
You'd think gpus, drivers, and business decisions were made and executed overnight with how people talk on here.

Edit : what's even more sad is the same thing will happen next year... 1180ti will come out and it will be a "massive surprise" and the performance will be "unknown" even though the titan chip will already be out and amd will have no idea what the competition looks like....

These discussions get boring when even in hindsight people can't seem to figure this out.

I never said the Fury X got a last minute price cut. My whole point was that 980 Ti came around too close for a pricing change. It's a huge logistical undertaking this close to release.

 

[mohit9206]

I never said the Fury X got a last minute price cut. My whole point was that 980 Ti came around too close for a pricing change. It's a huge logistical undertaking this close to release.

So in the same way am sure the price drop on 1080 and $699 price for 1080Ti is also too close for AMD to adjust Vega pricing.
So they are not going to be able to provide better perf/$ .

 

[Glo.]

Most likely faked.

 

[exquisitechar]

Most likely faked.

Yep, it was made by a guy from WCCFT's comment section.

 

[wanderica]

Most likely faked.

That's got to be a fake. If not, it's the worst official slide I've ever seen. Colors don't match, there's a weird Radeon logo in the upper left, and the scale seems to be a bit off.

And what's that junk all over it? I've seen less grainy WW1 photos.