Vega/Navi Rumors (Updated)

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IllogicalGlory

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
934
346
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This info does appear more solid than that at least. The fake RX 480 was obviously a GTX 1080 if you noticed the reported base clock.
 

Det0x

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2014
1,058
3,095
136
Wccftech is main reason why people get hyped about amd gpus. remember 1.6ghz pol10 ? they claimed it was solid info. we all know reality now. those guys should be banned on every forum. pathetic click bait site.

Well its not like its only gpu's from one side of the fence that tend to get hyped. But sadly it seems its mostly one vendor that get bad rep for it afterwards..

Remember this ?
VRworld said:
Stock GTX 1080 is clocked at 1.66 GHz, with Turbo Boost lifting it to 1.73 GHz. Founders Edition includes overclocking-friendly BIOS to raise the clocks to at least 2 GHz, and the presentation showed the chip running at 2.1 GHz. The main limiting factor for the overclocking beyond 2.2 GHz is 225 Watts, which is how much the board can officially pull from the power circuitry: 75 Watts from the motherboard and 150 W through 8-pin PEG connector. However, there are power supply manufacturers which provide more juice per rail, and we’ve seen single 8-pin connector delivering 225 W on its own. Still, partners such as ASUS, Colorful, EVGA, Galax, GigaByte, MSI are preparing custom boards with 2-3 8-pin connectors. According to our sources, reaching 2.5 GHz using a liquid cooling setup such as Corsair H115i or EK Waterblocks should not be too much of a hassle.
We had a few green posters here on this very forum throwing around how the 1080 would hit 2.5ghz with ease.. I could link to the posts, but i guess it will only end with a "member callout warning" from the mods, so ill rather not. (some of them have even edited their posts months afterwards to avoid having to admit they were wrong)
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,808
29,559
146
If wccftech is calling Vega 11 the "580," then where does the 490 and 495 slot in? We already know from official AMD naming scheme that the next tier above Polaris--since 480 is full Polaris--is going to be called 490 with the 495 as refresh. (...not to mention the 485 Polaris refresh at some point)

So, are they wrong with the naming here, or is this 580 rumor = "full Vega 11", where 490/495 is then = "cut down Vega 11"?
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
More hype!

Tread carefully. Do not forget what has happened in the past. A lot of "new this" and "new that" for Polaris simply meant it trades with Hawaii most of the time. Seeing as Vega 10 has equal shaders and ROPs and bandwidth as Fiji, rather than worse as Polaris 10 to Hawaii is, I'm expecting decidedly better than Fiji this time around but my range is not the moon.

Hope, but not hype for me.

I am not sure if it's hype or not. Without knowing the improved IPC of GCN V9, it's tough to say if those specs even look impressive. Remember that Titan XP is a cut-down flagship and despite that it's already 2.33X faster than RX 480.



Using the latest TPU benches, an AIB 1070 is 19% faster than the Fury X at 1440p. Gigabyte G1 1070 has now fallen to $390 + AAA game.



We don't even have a concrete launch date for Vega 10. If someone buys a GTX1070 right now, they could get 4-5 months out of it before Vega 10 even drops. The key is for many PC gamers living in the Northern hemisphere, roughly from October 1st to April 15th is the biggest gaming season of the year as it's going be get dark, cold/windy outside. Not everyone participates in winter sports and many people gave seasonal affective disorder (Seasonal affective disorder is estimated to affect 10 million Americans. Another 10 percent to 20 percent may have mild SAD.). Sounds like a perfect recipe for elevating the mood with an entertainment hobby during those months.

The opportunity cost of waiting for a $350-400 Vega 10 SKU may not be worth it when an AIB 1070 is $390 now with a game that can be resold for $20-30. NV may not sit still. They have options in 2017 such as lower the prices on 1070/1080, while introducing 1080Ti, and/or introduce refreshes in the Spring with 10-20% higher performance and faster GDDR5X. This is why it's so important for AMD to not only have a great performing and well-priced product, but also have apply supply and launch the new generation in a reasonable time frame. Last time AMD was 5-6 months behind with R9 290/290X and it really hurt them. This time they are even further behind and unlike 780/780Ti vs. 290/290X, 1070/1080 and imminent 1080Ti do not have VRAM or significant architectural weaknesses.

The other thing is AMD's greatest weaknesses in the mobile dGPU space do not appear to be addressed at all during this 14nm generation. They pull all their eggs into RX 460/470/480 basket, while throwing the $300-1000 desktop dGPU and mobile dGPU markets under the bus.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
More hype!

Tread carefully. Do not forget what has happened in the past. A lot of "new this" and "new that" for Polaris simply meant it trades with Hawaii most of the time. Seeing as Vega 10 has equal shaders and ROPs and bandwidth as Fiji, rather than worse as Polaris 10 to Hawaii is, I'm expecting decidedly better than Fiji this time around but my range is not the moon.

Hope, but not hype for me.

Still waiting for more reliable sources here as well, but it's interesting to see WCCFTech agreeing with VideoCardz. Both are saying Vega 11 is the (smaller) Polaris 10 replacement at similar price points. Meanwhile Vega 10 would pack the exact same amount of SPs as Fiji (4096).

Vega 10 will come in several configurations for gaming & professional computing applications. All configurations will feature second generation high bandwidth memory but in various capacities. Radeon Pro Vega 10 will feature the highest configuration of 4096 stream processors and 16GB of memory. The board has a TDP of ~230W and is powered by eight and six pin PCIe power connectors. Cooling wise the Radeon Pro will come in active and passively cooled configurations for servers.

Vega 11 will feature 8GB of HBM2 and is aimed at delivering the highest possible performance in notebook devices as well as replacing Polaris 10 in the midrange on the desktop. The GPU will be faster than Polaris 10 and use less power. Vega 11 will come in mini-ITX SFF and standard PCIe form factors. Most of the GPU’s extra oomph comes from the updated graphics architecture in addition to higher clock speeds compared to the RX 480 and RX 470. Vega 11 based cards will target the same ~$250 mid-range target that’s currently occupied by Polaris 10 and Nvidia’s GTX 1060.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
I don't buy that WCCFTech rumor AT ALL. They just made an image based on that patent AMD got earlier this year to make it sound legit and threw some random numbers around. They'll have at least another 4 vega rumor articles all claiming different things so that when Vega comes out, hopefully at least 1 of their wild guesses were close to the mark.

They are just not credible.
 
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HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,726
1,342
136
I don't buy that WCCFTech rumor AT ALL. They just made an image based on that patent AMD got earlier this year to make it sound legit and threw some random numbers around. They'll have at least another 4 vega rumor articles all claiming different things so that when Vega comes out, hopefully at least 1 of their wild guesses were close to the mark.

They are just not credible.

If that image is legitimate, then Vega looks like an enormous architectural change from previous GCN iterations. If WCCFTech straight up fabricated it, then they've really stooped to a new low.

Because it's fun to speculate, assuming the diagram is legitimate, then it looks like the scalar ALUs are no longer only used for special operations and are now general, since the 14 vector ALUs do not divide evenly into 4096, but when you add the two scalar ALUs you get a total of 16 which does. This is assuming that the shader count is accurate as well though.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,762
4,667
136
If that image is legitimate, then Vega looks like an enormous architectural change from previous GCN iterations. If WCCFTech straight up fabricated it, then they've really stooped to a new low.

Because it's fun to speculate, assuming the diagram is legitimate, then it looks like the scalar ALUs are no longer only used for special operations and are now general, since the 14 vector ALUs do not divide evenly into 4096, but when you add the two scalar ALUs you get a total of 16 which does. This is assuming that the shader count is accurate as well though.
They have taken it from this: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20160085551.pdf

There is also another one related to this: http://people.engr.ncsu.edu/hzhou/ipdps14.pdf
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,726
1,342
136
Well, if this is in Vega, it does a nice job explaining why the ALU count hasn't gone up compared to Fiji. Besides (what I'm assuming is) more involved dispatch, in general narrower SIMD units will take up more space per ALU.

The ability to adjust clocks at the SIMD unit level as described in the patent would also likely to substantially increase the transistor cost per ALU, but I'm even more skeptical about that finding its way into Vega.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,385
7,151
136
If that image is legitimate, then Vega looks like an enormous architectural change from previous GCN iterations. If WCCFTech straight up fabricated it, then they've really stooped to a new low.

Because it's fun to speculate, assuming the diagram is legitimate, then it looks like the scalar ALUs are no longer only used for special operations and are now general, since the 14 vector ALUs do not divide evenly into 4096, but when you add the two scalar ALUs you get a total of 16 which does. This is assuming that the shader count is accurate as well though.
The diagram (pay no mind to the glitz and glam of the background, mind you) is legitimately from an AMD patent (see Glo's post). There was some discussion on these forums earlier this year that Polaris might have incorporated the patent but we now know that it does not. Whether or not Navi or Vega will have the patent baked into the architecture is anyone's guess.

What I don't like is how WCCFTech comes off when it comes to reporting on information they deem "exclusive". Any "exclusive" editorials or reports posted by them have no links to the source material in fear that some other publication will just use the original source and thus avoid linking their page. No other major tech publication has posted an article on those AMD patents, hence why WCCFTech is holding their cards close.
 

gamervivek

Senior member
Jan 17, 2011
490
53
91
This comes from Khalid who was hyping up Polaris as well with 980+10% performance. Very likely AMD biased rumor against the recent Pascal refresh rumors.
 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46
The information about this being whole new architecture not comes from Amd's marketing dept but from link id of an AMD engineer and previous rumors about p10 being 232mmsq were right from such source.
 

kraatus77

Senior member
Aug 26, 2015
266
59
101
The information about this being whole new architecture not comes from Amd's marketing dept but from link id of an AMD engineer and previous rumors about p10 being 232mmsq were right from such source.

But just because it's GFX v9, doesn't mean it will be significantly faster. we have to wait and see. but i guess some people just want to hype it anyway just so later they can call it a fail. happening since 2011.

and this wccftech is one of the most pathetic hyper site. obviously when you shoot everywhere one shot will be on target, doesn't mean you (not you but as in general) are accurate. i don't have problems with other sites like tpu/g3d/vc etc. they are much better than this piece of joke site.
 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46
But just because it's GFX v9, doesn't mean it will be significantly faster. we have to wait and see. but i guess some people just want to hype it anyway just so later they can call it a fail. happening since 2011.

and this wccftech is one of the most pathetic hyper site. obviously when you shoot everywhere one shot will be on target, doesn't mean you (not you but as in general) are accurate. i don't have problems with other sites like tpu/g3d/vc etc. they are much better than this piece of joke site.
I don't want to hype it . Just said that because Link id of engineer said whole new architecture and this doesn't come from marketing dept.I don't even say it would bring better IPC per CU but if they could bring down transistor count down while having same perf and new features per CU it would be no less than good.
 

kraatus77

Senior member
Aug 26, 2015
266
59
101
I never said you are hyping, but also don't get your hopes high whatever the reason is.
 

gamervivek

Senior member
Jan 17, 2011
490
53
91
The information about this being whole new architecture not comes from Amd's marketing dept but from link id of an AMD engineer and previous rumors about p10 being 232mmsq were right from such source.

Graphics IP change is not a 'whole new architecture' but ISA change. Hawaii was 7, Tonga was 8.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1877668/

I'm skeptical of such a wide scale change(variable width wavefronts). And AMD haven't made much of a peep either considering what they're claiming with Polaris.
 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Graphics IP change is not a 'whole new architecture' but ISA change. Hawaii was 7, Tonga was 8.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1877668/

I'm skeptical of such a wide scale change(variable width wavefronts). And AMD haven't made much of a peep either considering what they're claiming with Polaris.

From the looks of it, it will most likely just be another tiny change. They are stuck with GCN for good and R&D is in the ground. When you cant afford more than 1-2 chips per year its bad.

Vega also need FP64 support, since the last chip there was Hawaii.
 

Alqoxzt

Member
Dec 12, 2014
66
11
46
From the looks of it, it will most likely just be another tiny change. They are stuck with GCN for good and R&D is in the ground. When you cant afford more than 1-2 chips per year its bad.

Vega also need FP64 support, since the last chip there was Hawaii.
Can you tell what this whole new soc thing means? it's bugging since it appeared.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,808
29,559
146
why would Vega 11 be targeted at the same price range and as a direct replacement for 480? This makes no sense whatsoever.
 
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