Vega/Navi Rumors (Updated)

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OatisCampbell

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Jun 26, 2013
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I have a feeling these cards will age quite well...if their anything like the last few generations of AMD cards there performance will keep getting better over the next few years. And if the Vega 56 still performs close to 1080 performance with a $399 price it will be a great bargain.

OK, but does that even matter?

Lets say with drivers they DO keeping improving their competitive position, maybe even get close to 1080Ti in a couple years. To what end? a 1080Ti will be a pretty slow card two years from now.
 

Malogeek

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2017
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yaktribe.org
Interesting pricing on the AIO version. Instead of having to gut the price to $599 due to lack of comparable performance to 1080ti, they bundle some discounts with it to boost the value of it whilst being able to make more profit.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
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Packs AMD? Trying to make the new cards look better by offering your great CPUs alongside them?

I may still be on board for the 64... but not until the non-ref cards start to trickle out. I'm all set with paying a premium while in very short supply.
 

Konan

Senior member
Jul 28, 2017
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.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/11680...-vega-64-399-rx-vega-56-launching-in-august/3

Speaking of Fiji, there’s been some question over whether the already shipping Vega FE cards had AMD’s Draw Steam Binning Rasterizer enabled, which is one of the Vega architecture’s new features. The short answer is that no, the DSBR is not enabled in Vega FE’s current drivers. Whereas we have been told to expect it with the RX Vega launch. AMD is being careful not to make too many promises here – the performance and power impact of the DSBR vary wildly with the software used – but it means that the RX Vega will have a bit more going on than the Vega FE at launch.

Interesting. Vega FE results now make much more sense. RX Vega might not be so DOA... still, it looks grim.

On the other hand...

Talking to AMD’s engineers, what especially surprised me is where the bulk of those transistors went; the single largest consumer of the additional 3.9B transistors was spent on designing the chip to clock much higher than Fiji. Vega 10 can reach 1.7GHz, whereas Fiji couldn’t do much more than 1.05GHz. Additional transistors are needed to add pipeline stages at various points or build in latency hiding mechanisms, as electrons can only move so far on a single clock cycle; this is something we’ve seen in NVIDIA’s Pascal, not to mention countless CPU designs. Still, what it means is that those 3.9B transistors are serving a very important performance purpose: allowing AMD to clock the card high enough to see significant performance gains over Fiji.

These extra transistors don't seem to be spent wisely. This smells of the nonsensical P4/Bulldozer approach to things. Interestingly Vega does well on pro applications but is a fail at gaming. It seems they can't do the jack of all trades chip anymore with this direction.

Oh well.

GCN as it is is finished if nV can make another leap as usual on the perf/W front with Volta. Navi should be a clean cut architecture. To be fair it's had a great five year run.
 
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Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
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Series of 8 videos just released by AMD :


I can't embed them all in one post, see link.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,376
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This was also recently posted...
Supposedly, live in 5 hours.
(This is NOT AMD, however, they are supposedly there, but, AMD's event doesn't start until 6PT, so unsure what these guys are going to be streaming before AMD's actual show.)

Umm... what's the deal, DMCA takedown on all livestreams?
The Anandtech live blog is also not found.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
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Vega looks to be a disaster in performance and AMD is going to struggle to move this product after the initial euphoria due to marketing hype. I have no doubt now that Vega will end up as one of AMD's worst failures. The bundles with games and discounts on Ryzen CPU/motherboard combo and Freesync monitors are all for one purpose. To try and sell a product which cannot compete on perf and perf/watt with Nvidia's Pascal architecture. Some heads at RTG will roll in due course of time. I cannot believe that AMD have regressed from Fiji in terms of perf/watt and perf/sq mm. Its just horrible. Things will get ugly for AMD once Volta arrives. I think we might see AMD hit lowest ever GPU market share in 2018.
 
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Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,376
762
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What the heck?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11680...-vega-64-399-rx-vega-56-launching-in-august/3
Speaking of Fiji, there’s been some question over whether the already shipping Vega FE cards had AMD’s Draw Steam Binning Rasterizer enabled, which is one of the Vega architecture’s new features. The short answer is that no, the DSBR is not enabled in Vega FE’s current drivers. Whereas we have been told to expect it with the RX Vega launch. AMD is being careful not to make too many promises here – the performance and power impact of the DSBR vary wildly with the software used – but it means that the RX Vega will have a bit more going on than the Vega FE at launch.

What the heck kind of a kludge did they do here?
It seems it is Fiji, and they "bolted" on features that turn out to be disabled?
I am actually shocked by this design choice.
Ack! No wonder it took so long.

Seriously, this is one messed up design.
They basically have at least 2 code paths to code for now.
It should have been design to be the main block which would get all the geometry, and cull it as appropriate, if needed.
So, this obviously isn't a new, top to bottom design, Vega's actual name should be Frankenstein.
 
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MajinCry

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2015
2,495
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I'm not ever going to spend 1070/1080 amounts of money, so I'm not too fussed about Vega64 performing like a 1080. But you'd think they'd have something to contend with the 1080 ti, at the very least.

Main stickler will be price and power usage. If it's priced similarly to a 1080, and doesn't have insane power usage, I'd say it's a win through Freesync alone.
 

maddogmcgee

Senior member
Apr 20, 2015
385
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OK, but does that even matter?

Lets say with drivers they DO keeping improving their competitive position, maybe even get close to 1080Ti in a couple years. To what end? a 1080Ti will be a pretty slow card two years from now.

Lot's of people keep their GPU's for several years. Sometimes even nerds on this forum. I have a GTX 970 that I would keep for another year or 2 if it wasn't for the VRAM (mods in Skylines use a ton at 1440P).

My 7970 in my girlfriends PC allows for fairly impressive graphics settings considering its age @ 1080p. The card was first released in 2011!
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
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So according to Anandtech's article, all three Vegas are Vega 10. So what happened to Vega 11?
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,866
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I dont like limited edition huge premium.We all knows how it was when GTX1070/1080 launched.Everyone and thier dog ignore "normal" prices and every aftermarket card cost more than FE.Aftermarket vega64 will probably cost 600-650USD and not 500-550USD.

I also dont like they cutdown second card more and more.290 and normal fury have same memory bandwidth as 290x/furyx.Vega 56 have only 410Gb/s so full vega have 20% higher memory badwidth.

It looks like AMD copying NVs worst things-FE and more cutdowns cards...
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
1,663
570
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These extra transistors don't seem to be spent wisely. This smells of the nonsensical P4/Bulldozer approach to things.

Nvidia managed to get very high clocks with Pascal without blowing up the transistor budget or power consumption.

I suspect this is partially due to GCN being a dated (and "jack-of-all-trades") architecture, partially due to a less-than-stellar design team, and partially due to the fact that, for manpower and budget reasons, AMD is using automated layout tools in Vega whereas Nvidia could lay out the critical paths in Pascal by hand.

(Automated layout tools were one reason Bulldozer sucked.)
 

ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
1,151
530
136
I dont like limited edition huge premium.We all knows how it was when GTX1070/1080 launched.Everyone and thier dog ignore "normal" prices and every aftermarket card cost more than FE.Aftermarket vega64 will probably cost 600-650USD and not 500-550USD.

I also dont like they cutdown second card more and more.290 and normal fury have same memory bandwidth as 290x/furyx.Vega 56 have only 410Gb/s so full vega have 20% higher memory badwidth.

It looks like AMD copying NVs worst things-FE and more cutdowns cards...

Yep, while retaining AMD's worst things, power consumption, and time to market.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
These extra transistors don't seem to be spent wisely. This smells of the nonsensical P4/Bulldozer approach to things. Interestingly Vega does well on pro applications but is a fail at gaming. It seems they can't do the jack of all trades chip anymore with this direction.

It's different with a GPU. Applications running on a CPU are far more sensitive to branch misprediction. Also they probably had to do this(both companies) because the designs are quite mature and process improvements aren't bringing anything. It worked quite well with Pascal.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
136
If somebody can truly deliver a disaster product in the best possible way it has got to be AMD. Vega is RTG's Bulldozer. The GCN architecture cannot go any further. Thats quite obvious. How long would it take for a clean sheet design like Zen ? No idea. But thats the only way out. Nvidia is going to be laughing all the way to the bank in 2018. I think its going to be quite easy for Nvidia to get to >80% market share once Volta arrives. I am just thinking how bad it will be in 2018. GV106 - performance between GTX 1070 and GTX 1080 at 120-130w. How can AMD sell Vega 10 at USD 500 in 2018 when the GV106 will sell for roughly same performance at USD 250 and draws less than half the power of Vega 10. Its unbelievable that AMD have regressed over Fiji and even Polaris in terms of perf/watt with Vega. Real world gaming performance / FLOP is the lowest ever for a GCN product. Unbelievable.
 
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