Vega/Navi Rumors (Updated)

[Bouowmx]

VSG wrote a harsh analysis of Radeon Vega packs: https://www.techpowerup.com/235684/amd-radeon-packs-expensive-motherboards-monitor-only-for-few

Monitor discount only available in 5 countries, in North America and Southeast, no Europe. Monitor implementation of FreeSync is not the best: narrow range 80-100 Hz, and Ultimate range 48-100 Hz with flickering. See also: Reddit r/AMD PSA: Vega bundle monitor Freesync is broken

All countries get discount for combo of AMD Ryzen 7 1700X or 1800X, and ASUS CROSSHAIR VI EXTREME, GIGABYTE GA-AX370-Gaming K7, or MSI X370 XPOWER GAMING TITANIUM, all of which are expensive motherboards.

The two games are Prey and Wolfenstein II, which is replaced by Sniper Elite 4 in 3 European countries.


Personally, I've never experienced variable refresh rate monitors, so I don't know their value. I run my games at medium or high quality to get high frame rate (144 Hz refresh), so variable refresh rate would likely have less of use to me.

 

[happy medium]

Not only that, but who will buy a card thats only marginally better than the 1080 then risk having regrets if Volta is released in next few months. What if Nvidia rushes out Volta now and announces a solid, earlier than expected release date?

I agree, Volta will be here within 5 or 6 months, that is another good reason to skip Vega.

 

[happy medium]

I saw a gtx 1080 on sale the other day for $465.

It really isn't a great price at $500.

Yes its still on slickdeals. You need to use a coupon code and paypal.

My point is why buy Vega if the 1080 is basically the same price or less?

 

[Yakk]

Personally, I've never experienced variable refresh rate monitors, so I don't know their value. I run my games at medium or high quality to get high frame rate (144 Hz refresh), so variable refresh rate would likely have less of use to me.

Get used to better handled fps dips and higher visual candy pretty quick.

 

[railven]

Welp, with two weeks to go before full reviews, I personally don't see anything too drastic changing from now to then. Another round of hype train (by our usual ATF residents) ends in another ditch. 60@4K and 30-40% faster than GTX 1080 Ti. Sure.

Reading the monitor bundle isn't offered in the EU, or most of the world. The packs seem poorly crafted and with the "all at once" restriction isn't going to cater to many buyers. Prey itself has already seen <$30 deals and Wolfenstein II is most likely going to hit every eshop with a 10%+ discount. So $100 just for those two games isn't as appealing.

 

[VSG]

VSG wrote a harsh analysis of Radeon Vega packs: https://www.techpowerup.com/235684/amd-radeon-packs-expensive-motherboards-monitor-only-for-few

Monitor discount only available in 5 countries, in North America and Southeast, no Europe. Monitor implementation of FreeSync is not the best: narrow range 80-100 Hz, and Ultimate range 48-100 Hz with flickering. See also: Reddit r/AMD PSA: Vega bundle monitor Freesync is broken

All countries get discount for combo of AMD Ryzen 7 1700X or 1800X, and ASUS CROSSHAIR VI EXTREME, GIGABYTE GA-AX370-Gaming K7, or MSI X370 XPOWER GAMING TITANIUM, all of which are expensive motherboards.

The two games are Prey and Wolfenstein II, which is replaced by Sniper Elite 4 in 3 European countries.


Personally, I've never experienced variable refresh rate monitors, so I don't know their value. I run my games at medium or high quality to get high frame rate (144 Hz refresh), so variable refresh rate would likely have less of use to me.

I would have much rather not written that at all, but the implementation of those Radeon packs is very confusing, and disappointing. AMD based RX Vega around an improved user experience with FreeSync being a strong point there, and the $100 extra to get $220 in potential goods is less appealing when the games will be on sale for half the price and the motherboards are quite expensive too. If AMD revises or updates these, I will gladly change my stance

Edit: Typo

 

[Despoiler]

AMD posted the Capsaicin event recording.

 

[IEC]

The concern is amusing. We as gamers/PC enthusiasts are getting the scraps, almost as an afterthought - the best dies are likely going to professional SKUs and Apple. Add in the smorgasbord of new features that don't seem relevant to gaming (at least, not yet) and I think the focus is pretty obvious in hindsight...

While I think this sucks for us as gamers/PC enthusiasts I wish AMD the best in making fat margins in the other markets, so they can fund, develop, and release a properly competitive gaming focused GPU. While RX Vega is obviously not supplanting my 1080 Ti for gaming use, I do still plan on picking up some aftermarket RX Vega 64 cards at some point, along with Threadripper. Maybe I'll hold out for some kind of TR bundle deal.

 

[insertcarehere]

VSG wrote a harsh analysis of Radeon Vega packs: https://www.techpowerup.com/235684/amd-radeon-packs-expensive-motherboards-monitor-only-for-few

Monitor discount only available in 5 countries, in North America and Southeast, no Europe. Monitor implementation of FreeSync is not the best: narrow range 80-100 Hz, and Ultimate range 48-100 Hz with flickering. See also: Reddit r/AMD PSA: Vega bundle monitor Freesync is broken

All countries get discount for combo of AMD Ryzen 7 1700X or 1800X, and ASUS CROSSHAIR VI EXTREME, GIGABYTE GA-AX370-Gaming K7, or MSI X370 XPOWER GAMING TITANIUM, all of which are expensive motherboards.

The two games are Prey and Wolfenstein II, which is replaced by Sniper Elite 4 in 3 European countries.


Personally, I've never experienced variable refresh rate monitors, so I don't know their value. I run my games at medium or high quality to get high frame rate (144 Hz refresh), so variable refresh rate would likely have less of use to me.

Good intentions but poor implementation and reeks of AMD being frankly out of touch, I find it hard to believe that they think people that want to spend GTX1070-ish money on GPUs all wanna shell out for $200+ motherboards, $330+ CPUs, and $900+ monitors, an available Ryzen 5 + reasonable MB bundle for the vega 56/64, not to mention less expensive monitor selections, would be a much better way to push the ecosystem.

 

[tential]

Good intentions but poor implementation and reeks of AMD being frankly out of touch, I find it hard to believe that they think people that want to spend GTX1070-ish money on GPUs all wanna shell out for $200+ motherboards, $330+ CPUs, and $900+ monitors, an available Ryzen 5 + reasonable MB bundle for the vega 56/64, not to mention less expensive monitor selections, would be a much better way to push the ecosystem.

Good intentions if you believe amd.
Or it's just a way for them to move the less favorable -1700x/1800x processors.

 

[railven]

Good intentions but poor implementation and reeks of AMD being frankly out of touch, I find it hard to believe that they think people that want to spend GTX1070-ish money on GPUs all wanna shell out for $200+ motherboards, $330+ CPUs, and $900+ monitors, an available Ryzen 5 + reasonable MB bundle for the vega 56/64, not to mention less expensive monitor selections, would be a much better way to push the ecosystem.

Yeah, started seeing this on placed like NeoGaf and Reddit. Some people are even saying you can get a GTX 1080 +Gsync monitor with the savings of going for an R5 1600 + B350 board.

Spending $1700+ at time of check out isn't going to attract as many buyers as if the coupons included other alternatives. This could have been a huge win for AMD.

 

[tviceman]

Some preliminary benchmark #s from AMD's slides testing foot notes.

RX Vega - 1080
Ashes 60 ---- 63
BF 1 68 ---- 57
Dues Ex 58 ---- 45
DOOM 83 ---- 76
FORZA 61 ---- 51
GoW 53 ---- 59
Hitman 59 ---- 63
Sniper Elite 65 ---- 63
Warhammer 60 ---- 56

So RX Vega 64 may edge out the 1080 and at $499 I think this is a pretty strong value, given current market prices. AMD has indeed said that the Vega FE did not have the tile based rasterizer enabled as well as some clock-gating power management features enabled neither. This level of performance, if they can get consumption down to ~250w for AIBs (1080 AIB ar around ~200-220W) this will be at least competitive, just not the stunner many of us hoped for.

I recall AMD's pre-release slides showing Fury X besting a 980 TI across a majority of games. That turned out to be wrong. And power consumption for custom cards NEVER, EVER goes down, it always goes up. There is no added value RX Vega 64. Intrinsically, it's less value. It has the same performance as a 1080, less headroom, and way more power consumption. Call it for what it is - a spade. You don't have to like Nvidia to see the crap that Vega is taking on your lawn.

 

[QualityTime]

Vega Technical Overview.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Vega_Microarchitecture_Technical_Overview

Welp AMD just solidified their hold on mining. Vega has specific instructions for mining. This explains the reports I've see that Vega was really good for mining.

Some details at last.

They finally updated the rasterizer and dispatcher:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Vega_Microarchitecture_Technical_Overview/images/arch-18.jpg
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Vega_Microarchitecture_Technical_Overview/images/arch-19.jpg
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews...cture_Technical_Overview/images/slides-44.jpg
Now to see if they stuck with 16 pixel width and the 2 or 4 unit configuration(scale, damn you).

Utilizing design elements/work from the cpu group is nice to see:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews...cture_Technical_Overview/images/slides-38.jpg

Oddly, what was supposed to be the biggest improvement is seemingly their biggest issue:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews...cture_Technical_Overview/images/slides-41.jpg

And don't see anything about frame buffer compression utilization improvements, terrible.
Hard to compete against this:

 

[Despoiler]

Good intentions but poor implementation and reeks of AMD being frankly out of touch, I find it hard to believe that they think people that want to spend GTX1070-ish money on GPUs all wanna shell out for $200+ motherboards, $330+ CPUs, and $900+ monitors, an available Ryzen 5 + reasonable MB bundle for the vega 56/64, not to mention less expensive monitor selections, would be a much better way to push the ecosystem.

You don't get how the bundle works. You pay $100 more and then your get $425 in value. 2 games included, $100 coupon for mobo + cpu, and a $200 coupon monitor. No one is forcing you to buy all of it. The games are worth the $100. If you buy either the cpu+mobo or the monitor then it's a better deal than you get buying them outside the bundle. Seems legit to me.

 

[insertcarehere]

You don't get how the bundle works. You pay $100 more and then your get $425 in value. 2 games included, $100 coupon for mobo + cpu, and a $200 coupon monitor. No one is forcing you to buy all of it. The games are worth the $100. If you buy either the cpu+mobo or the monitor then it's a better deal than you get buying them outside the bundle. Seems legit to me.

But that "value" you describe has to be applied specifically to these components, many of which are questionable value (Expensive af motherboards + monitor), and outside of select countries, the monitor option isn't even available, so what you're essentially doing is paying $100 more to get $100 coupon and 2 free games, both of which will decrease rapidly in value very soon after launch..

Update: Apparently the bundled monitor is shitty as well, figures https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6qod7y/psa_vega_bundle_monitor_freesync_is_broken/

 

[tential]

You don't get how the bundle works. You pay $100 more and then your get $425 in value. 2 games included, $100 coupon for mobo + cpu, and a $200 coupon monitor. No one is forcing you to buy all of it. The games are worth the $100. If you buy either the cpu+mobo or the monitor then it's a better deal than you get buying them outside the bundle. Seems legit to me.

So I pay $100 more to get $100 more in value? With potentially $325 more in value if I spend $1000+ more?

That's a bad bundle no matter how you slice it.

 

[Despoiler]

But that "value" you describe has to be applied specifically to these components, many of which are questionable value (Expensive af motherboards + monitor), and outside of select countries, the monitor option isn't even available, so what you're essentially doing is paying $100 more to get $100 coupon and 2 free games, both of which will decrease rapidly in value very soon after launch..

So I pay $100 more to get $100 more in value? With potentially $325 more in value if I spend $1000+ more?

That's a bad bundle no matter how you slice it.

I always chuckle at some the machinations this forum comes up with. I've been talking about use cases AMD has put forward. This bundle is another one. If you are refreshing your computer and you need a GPU and either a motherboard + CPU or want the specific monitor then you are paying less. Clearly if you want to low spec your computer then you are going to try to spend less. This bundle is aimed squarely @ people looking to spend $1100 w/o monitor and more with monitor. I've personally put together 4 Ryzen systems for myself and my friends in the last two months. If Vega was out then I would have used this bundle for my rig and I could have given the option for the 3 to use the bundle. The only change would be to upspec the motherboard from B350 to X370, which is a $50 jump which leaves $50 less cost overall. Or you can burn the whole $100 to get a nice X370. B350 to X370 is an easy choice because of how average the VRM cooling is on B350 boards. They cannot handle high overclocks. I digress though. It's also a silly argument that y'all are putting forward because you can buy the Vega cards stand alone if you don't need other hardware.

 

[Paul98]

When will we see this with DSBR and power saving features enabled? They said they will be ready for launch?

 

[Phynaz]

Bundle just reeks of desperation. Is this precedent setting? Has a bundle discount ever been announced for a GPU before it even launched?

 

[Muhammed]

New When will we see this with DSBR and power saving features enabled? They said they will be ready for launch?

They are already enabled in AMD's presentation, AMD tested games with 17.30 driver. they had DSBR enabled in 17.20 driver, which is the driver before it. The final driver will be released along side RX Vega samples to reviewers.

 

[guachi]

Bundle just reeks of desperation. Is this precedent setting? Has a bundle discount ever been announced for a GPU before it even launched?

I don't know. I'm surprised AMD hasn't done this before. Maybe demand for Ryzen was high enough and 580 supply low enough it couldn't be done upon Ryzen launch.

Frankly, AMD should do this with every launch. They should go nuts and do a Vega WC + Threadripper 1950 bundle.

 

[tential]

I don't know. I'm surprised AMD hasn't done this before. Maybe demand for Ryzen was high enough and 580 supply low enough it couldn't be done upon Ryzen launch.

Frankly, AMD should do this with every launch. They should go nuts and do a Vega WC + Threadripper 1950 bundle.

Why? Why should they bundle this hard? So now if you want a gpu you need the bundle?
Come on even Anandtech says supply will definitely be limited unless you're getting a bundle.

I can't even get the gpu I want because it's locked behind a bundle. For all. People complain about regarding Nvidia this has been the shadiest launch ever.

This launch doesn't reek of desperation as @Phynaz suggest. It reeks of being deceptive.

It doesn't help either that there are those who are very bullish on amd pushing insane narratives. I told people there was no way the gpu was going to be available or reviews would be out today, yet for the last couple of months I've been told to wait for Siggraph.

Nvidia could say anything right now and it'd probably sway me. My guess is if Nvidia releases a press conference before Vega is available, it will shake a lot of people interested in Vega to the core.

 

[PeterScott]

This is your opinion, not corroborated by FACTS. You could also look at the driver version used in the test (it is written at the end of the slides), and what driver version i.e. enables faster geometry throughtput (it is also written) and see that the two are not the same (17.30 vs 17.32). So we don't know which features are enablet in 17.30, we can know for sure that faster geometry is not, and maybe also others will be available only at launch or even later. Not to say this is a good policy, but it is what it is, probably programming such a complex architecture is not easy when you have a much lower R&D budget compared to your competitor.

Muhammed demonstrates above that DSBR is enabled for AMDs slides/benchmarks and this is the feature that most people were hoping would deliver big gains. It hasn't.

 

[tviceman]

Why? Why should they bundle this hard? So now if you want a gpu you need the bundle?
Come on even Anandtech says supply will definitely be limited unless you're getting a bundle.

I can't even get the gpu I want because it's locked behind a bundle. For all. People complain about regarding Nvidia this has been the shadiest launch ever.

This launch doesn't reek of desperation as @Phynaz suggest. It reeks of being deceptive.

Perhaps both desperation and deception.

It doesn't help either that there are those who are very bullish on amd pushing insane narratives. I told people there was no way the gpu was going to be available or reviews would be out today, yet for the last couple of months I've been told to wait for Siggraph.

Nvidia could say anything right now and it'd probably sway me. My guess is if Nvidia releases a press conference before Vega is available, it will shake a lot of people interested in Vega to the core.

Nvidia doesn't have to do or say anything. Independent reviews will do the job for them. This is the biggest high end turd since the HD 2900.

 

[Olikan]

Wouldn't a "big polaris" be better?

IIRC, a 64 CU @ 1.3Ghz would be a bit ~5% faster than Vega