Vega/Navi Rumors (Updated)

[Bacon1]

/r/amd is taking hostages: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/641iua/amd_you_have_1_day_to_release_more_vega/

 

[IEC]

Estimates from Raja holding the die. They range from 500 to 560 mm^2.

Link? At that die size it could actually be competitive with GTX Titan Xp/1080 Ti...

 

[piesquared]

Link? At that die size it could actually be competitive with GTX Titan Xp/1080 Ti...

You mean the Titan Xp or the Titan Xp?

 

[zinfamous]

You mean the Titan Xp or the Titan Xp?

the Titan Xpp

 

[Valantar]

The Titan Vista? Or the Titan XP sp2?

 

[piesquared]

the Titan Xpp

Xpp? Oh the Titan John Bobbitt version!

The Titan Vista? Or the Titan XP sp2?

lol yep or even Titan XP ME2. Man have they got chimpanzees working in their marketing squad or what. Makes you wonder why NV doesn't just go around knocking on NV brand loyalist doors asking them to give them everything in their wallet.

So if AMD have a nice card in Vega without the price gouging, i wonder how much influence these ridiculous antics will have on consumers' purchasing decision. What a bone head move by NV lol. Thing is, i think they actually convinced themselves that no matter what they release and at what price, people will continue to buy it without question, and without any blowback ever.

 

[Malogeek]

So if AMD have a nice card in Vega without the price gouging, i wonder how much influence these ridiculous antics will have on consumers' purchasing decision. What a bone head move by NV lol. Thing is, i think they actually convinced themselves that no matter what they release and at what price, people will continue to buy it without question, and without any blowback ever.

Probably zero. The kind of consumers that will spend $1200 on a GPU won't be buying a vega anyway.

 

[CatMerc]

Link? At that die size it could actually be competitive with GTX Titan Xp/1080 Ti...

That HBM2 die is 11.87mm wide from known specifications.

HBM2 W: 11.87mm
HBM2 W: 97px

px/mm: 8.1718px

Vega W: 213px
Vega H: 161px
Vega W: 26.065mm
Vega H: 19.701mm
Vega Area: 513.5mm^2

From my text file doing the calculations today.
There is uncertainty here. Lowest I got was 500 or so, highest 560.

 

[zinfamous]

Probably zero. The kind of consumers that will spend $1200 on a GPU twice in less than a year won't be buying a vega anyway.

ftfy

 

[Malogeek]

ftfy

haha kinda mean but so true.

Link? At that die size it could actually be competitive with GTX Titan Xp/1080 Ti...

We don't know how much die space some new features might take, the HBCC for example.

 

[zinfamous]

haha kinda mean but so true.

nah, not mean. They'll sell the first one, thus making it "smart."

 

[Bacon1]

Oh no, help it AMD!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/648ukx/hostage_for_vega_megathread/

 

[Glo.]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20170090957.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20160239302.pdf

I wonder if anyone of them will land in Vega architecture. The first one is extremely interesting.

In essence, you can define clocks of each CU individually to bring higher synchronicity of completion executed tasks that vary in lenght. Less stalls, higher efficiency.

Very interesting.

 

[tviceman]

Link? At that die size it could actually be competitive with GTX Titan Xp/1080 Ti...

Depends on so much. Did AMD improve performance/mm2 over Polaris 10/20? How much better performance/watt will Vega have in gaming over Polaris (when we're talking big power hungry chips, a cap on total power draw can limit performance)? These questions matter just as much as asking how big the die is because RX 480 currently requires 15% more die space, 30% more power, and 25% more memory bandwidth to achieve the same performance as the GTX 1060. Everyone thought that Fiji matching GM100's die size and use of HBM would have over powered GM100, but that didn't pan out.

 

[IEC]

Depends on so much. Did AMD improve performance/mm2 over Polaris 10/20? How much better performance/watt will Vega have in gaming over Polaris (when we're talking big power hungry chips, a cap on total power draw can limit performance)? These questions matter just as much as asking how big the die is because RX 480 currently requires 15% more die space, 30% more power, and 25% more memory bandwidth to achieve the same performance as the GTX 1060. Everyone thought that Fiji matching GM100's die size and use of HBM would have over powered GM100, but that didn't pan out.

Thus the "could actually" rather than "will actually". And asking for a source/link. We just don't know yet.

 

[IllogicalGlory]

The early results from GFXbench at 1200MHz look promising (generally beating a 1080), assuming the final clocks land at around 1500-1600MHz, which based on what we know seems almost guaranteed. For some reason, I'm still having a hard time believing that that's what we'll actually see.

 

[TerionX6]

The early results from GFXbench at 1200MHz look promising (generally beating a 1080), assuming the final clocks land at around 1500-1600MHz, which based on what we know seems almost guaranteed. For some reason, I'm still having a hard time believing that that's what we'll actually see.

The 1500-1600 are based on the MI25 product specs, which is rated at 300wTDP. It would be insane to expect that in the consumer version given their competition. Unfortunately a lot of unknowns surround Vega, the redesigned CU's clock/voltage curves on 14nm being the most relevant here. We dont have any product in the same TDP on the same node from AMD to compare to, and previous GCN revisions are useless to draw parallels from again due to the clock speed enhancements Vega was designed with.

But, we can guesstimate. Polaris hits the efficiency scaling limit at about 1100mhz, Fiji is roughly 900, previous GCN were all around 825 or so (numbers from sleep deprived memory). Working backwords from the MI25, assuming it is "hot clocked" from factory, Vega could settle at 250wTDP using 1350-1400Mhz

 

[IllogicalGlory]

The 1500-1600 are based on the MI25 product specs, which is rated at 300wTDP. It would be insane to expect that in the consumer version given their competition. Unfortunately a lot of unknowns surround Vega, the redesigned CU's clock/voltage curves on 14nm being the most relevant here. We dont have any product in the same TDP on the same node from AMD to compare to, and previous GCN revisions are useless to draw parallels from again due to the clock speed enhancements Vega was designed with.

But, we can guesstimate. Polaris hits the efficiency scaling limit at about 1100mhz, Fiji is roughly 900, previous GCN were all around 825 or so (numbers from sleep deprived memory). Working backwords from the MI25, assuming it is "hot clocked" from factory, Vega could settle at 250wTDP using 1350-1400Mhz

The slides showed a 225W TDP variant with 12TFLOPS. It does seem unlikely given the 300W TDP of the 12.5T variant though.

 

[Elfear]

Saw this over in the CPU subforum. It's an AMA over at Tomshardware with AMD about various topics including Vega.

PandaNation: Why are FreeSync monitors so much cheaper than their G-Sync counterparts? I know you won't be able to say much, but how does Vega compare to the Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti and the Nvidia Titan Xp? Big fan of AMD, thinking of doing a Mini-ITX Ryzen 5 build. Keep up the good work!

DON WOLIGROSKI: FreeSync is cheaper because it's an open standard. In many cases a panel manufacturer can make a FreeSync panel by changing their monitor's firmware and having it meet the spec. For G-Sync, Nvidia charges a licensing fee. Because of this differentiation alone, I think the inevitable future is FreeSync.

Vega performance compared to the Geforce GTX 1080 Ti and the Titan Xp looks really nice.

I am also waiting for my MiniITX Ryzen board!

That could mean Vega is priced much lower and also performs slower (i.e. looks good in terms of price/performance) or that Vega will slot right in with Nvidia's big boys. Hopefully it's the latter.

 

[crisium]

Any news is good news I guess.

 

[Crumpet]

Saw this over in the CPU subforum. It's an AMA over at Tomshardware with AMD about various topics including Vega.



That could mean Vega is priced much lower and also performs slower (i.e. looks good in terms of price/performance) or that Vega will slot right in with Nvidia's big boys. Hopefully it's the latter.

Well we knew that with an early alpha driver in some games the Vega tech demo was competing with the GTX 1080.

1080ti is 30% faster than the 1080 (wow.. that's nuts) so I think a 30% improvement before release is unlikely, personally. But somewhere inbetween at an insulting price point would deal Nvidia some blows. (£500-600?)

That said, AMD's early Ryzen demos showed 3.3ghz, crept up to 3.6ghz close to release and then surprised most of us with a release speed of 4ghz, so if Radeon is sandbagging too... We shall see.

 

[Bacon1]

Mirror: https://streamable.com/4iyfi

 

[biostud]

So maybe performance between 1080 and Ti for the price of a 1080?

 

[Malogeek]

So maybe performance between 1080 and Ti for the price of a 1080?

That's about my expectations and hopes.

 

[Glo.]

So maybe performance between 1080 and Ti for the price of a 1080?

More likely is that RX Vega will be 95-105% of GTX 1080 Ti for 599-699$.