Vega/Navi Rumors (Updated)

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Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
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Essentially all 3D PC games work like this. It is task of the engine running on the CPU to determine the time of the next frame to be displayed. Based on this the next world space and view space transforms are calculated. After this the GPU takes over. However, as i said, it is just a prediction typically done based on the frame interval of the last frames.
You can imagine, that given how Freesync works, the frame is almost never precisely displayed at the intended time resulting in jitter.

Thats the beauty of Vsync. Assuming the the GPU is always fast enough, the frame interval precisely matches the prediction resulting in a jitter free experience. Of course, i give you that, in case the time it takes to render a frame is larger than the display refresh interval then VSync jitter is much larger than Freesync jitter.

I was asking for actual examples because I've played a ton of games on Freesync and have never noticed any issues with animation and jitter. I've never seen it even mentioned besides your comment.
 
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CatMerc

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2016
1,114
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LFC should remove all tearing. Sounds like its not working.

Do you have an OSD for the monitor display hz? You'll see the hz double up, so if your game is @ 20fps the monitor will display 40hz and thus be tear free. You'll get the same frame twice which isn't ideal, but it should never tear. Same thing happens with GSync. Neither should ever tear.
Some minor amount of tearing is expected even with LFC.
https://www.amd.com/Documents/freesync-lfc.pdf
No Vsync, below min FPS, LFC enabled says REDUCED tearing.
If I enable vsync then it completely removes it.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
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Some minor amount of tearing is expected even with LFC.
https://www.amd.com/Documents/freesync-lfc.pdf
No Vsync, below min FPS, LFC enabled says REDUCED tearing.
If I enable vsync then it completely removes it.

I just retested this and no tearing with LFC.

My monitor is XR341CK: 30-75hz freesync range

I used GSync Pendulum demo "No Vsync" mode with Freesync enabled and disabled

I set FPS Sliders to 20.9215 -> 31.9795 and Camera Spin speed to max and used the test pattern as its very easy to see tearing

With freesync disabled my monitor OSD hz displayed 75 and I had lots of tearing (obviously)

With freesync enabled my monitor OSD hz displayed between 40 and 62 which was LFC working to double the frames to bring them within my freesync range (30-75). I had no tearing, but it was stuttery (I mean it's only 20-30 fps after all ).

So no tearing, but I wouldn't want to game at 20-30 fps for any extended period of time (a single drop here or there maybe). Anything 40+ was super smooth though, even mid 30s weren't bad.
 

Crumpet

Senior member
Jan 15, 2017
745
539
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Yeah so long as I stay within the Freesync range I don't get any stuttering.

I've seen a total of 3 tears since purchasing this monitor some months ago, and that was at the edge of my ultrawide monitor when travelling at over 150mph through corners in a GT3 car, so movement doesn't get much faster than that.

I'm sure if I dropped below 30fps it would stutter, but then i'm below what I consider an acceptable gaming standard anyway and would lower the graphics settings or purchase a stronger gpu.

I have had some stuttering in GTA V last night, but it had been working like a dream for over a week so I think my current overclock settings aren't stable, I lost them all when I had to reset the CMOS trying to overclock my unsupported RAM and got stuck in a black screen loop, so put them back in a hurry and probably got something wrong.
 
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Crumpet

Senior member
Jan 15, 2017
745
539
96
Still more than month away.Vega is not close at all.
Launch will be at computex 2017 probably.
30.5-3.6

I'm 30 now, a month is definitely close. So close in fact that when I wake up next Tuesday somehow it'll be September, summers gone, i've gained 20lbs and have no idea what happened to any of it. Though hopefully i'll have a Vega gpu in my machine....
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Hmm, seems to be taking for ever for Vega to come out. I wonder if AMD is waiting on game devs to patch games for CGN5 (lots of changes) so that they have a really good roll out?
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
Well hopefully since the design is for higher clocks and we already see polaris factory OC hitting 1450 that Vega will be a good bit higher than that.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Well hopefully since the design is for higher clocks and we already see polaris factory OC hitting 1450 that Vega will be a good bit higher than that.

Yeah, but some of those cards are inching closer to GTX 1080 Ti power consumption without the performance to show for it. Vega has to be amazing to hit even higher clocks, with more of everything, and not roast peanuts.

Whatever AMD has up its sleeve for Vega - the suspense is killing me.

EDIT:

Just as I was posting this I saw TPU updated their charts with a Boost Bios for the Nitro+

GODDAMN!!!! That power consumption to performance ratio. The Boost Bios puts it eating more power than a GTX 1080 Ti and only gains it 2% more performance! WTH are they thinking?
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
I expect design for lower power consumption should go along with the higher clock design, I don't really see how you could have one without the other.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
1,018
91
Just as I was posting this I saw TPU updated their charts with a Boost Bios for the Nitro+

GODDAMN!!!! That power consumption to performance ratio. The Boost Bios puts it eating more power than a GTX 1080 Ti and only gains it 2% more performance! WTH are they thinking?

TPU is messing up something or that card was broken. Computerbase tested a lot of cards and none look like that.

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-04/radeon-rx-580-570-test/4/
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
136
Vega had better be something special. If these 36 CUs running around 1.4GHz are going over 200W, then the 64 NCUs rumoured to run over 1.5GHz really have to have serious improvements to hit 225W (not that I trust TDP).

But things like these RX 580 200w+ is why I am skeptical of Vega. We expect Vega NCUs to be so good that they have nearly double the shaders, running higher, using barely more power consumption, and also have "IPC" improvements?

I want to believe.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Vega had better be something special. If these 36 CUs running around 1.4GHz are going over 200W, then the 64 NCUs rumoured to run over 1.5GHz really have to have serious improvements to hit 225W (not that I trust TDP).

But things like these RX 580 200w+ is why I am skeptical of Vega. We expect Vega NCUs to be so good that they have nearly double the shaders, running higher, using barely more power consumption, and also have "IPC" improvements? I want to believe.

Let's just say I got the wife's approval to start my "GPU Fund" early because NV is going to take us for a ride.
 

Crumpet

Senior member
Jan 15, 2017
745
539
96
Vega had better be something special. If these 36 CUs running around 1.4GHz are going over 200W, then the 64 NCUs rumoured to run over 1.5GHz really have to have serious improvements to hit 225W (not that I trust TDP).

But things like these RX 580 200w+ is why I am skeptical of Vega. We expect Vega NCUs to be so good that they have nearly double the shaders, running higher, using barely more power consumption, and also have "IPC" improvements?

I want to believe.

Totally different architecture using a lower power draw memory type.

Polaris =//= Vega
 

richaron

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,357
329
136
Will AMD fix multi-monitor with Vega (clocks)?

Apparently they addressed this with the 580 refresh/rebrand by creating a middle ground VRAM clock. AT review seems to have problems validating this, but they did notice the same thing working during video decode with AMD running much lower power consumption than nVidia.

If validated though, I hope it can be one less thing the serial AMD-bashers on this forum regurgitates at readers to prove...?
 
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Mr Evil

Senior member
Jul 24, 2015
464
187
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mrevil.asvachin.com
Will AMD fix multi-monitor with Vega (clocks)?
Idle power consumption of my PC with a Fury with one monitor connected is 59W. With a second monitor connected it is 60W. It was equally good with my old 280X, as long as all the connected monitors were DisplayPort, so it's been fixed for years now.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
Idle power consumption of my PC with a Fury with one monitor connected is 59W. With a second monitor connected it is 60W. It was equally good with my old 280X, as long as all the connected monitors were DisplayPort, so it's been fixed for years now.

Starting with the multi-monitor testing, the results were not what I was expecting. While AMD tells me that this should trigger the new mid-power state, I haven’t been able to successfully trigger it. With matched monitors the RX 580 can go to full idle, just like the RX 480. Otherwise with mismatched monitors, it always goes to 8Gbps, skipping past 4Gbps and never returning. Even with a few different monitors, the results were always the same.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11278/amd-radeon-rx-580-rx-570-review/2

Nope, still broken.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,005
6,450
136
Totally different architecture using a lower power draw memory type.

Polaris =//= Vega

The power draw needed for the memory won't matter that much. HBM2 is significantly more efficient, but most of the Polaris power budget isn't going to the memory.

If Vega really can hit 1.5 GHz, the design would have to be very different or it just wouldn't be feasible with the 375W "hard" limit based on what we see from Polaris. Realistically though, AMD would need a much improved design, because they'd want to hit 1.5 GHz at the peak of their efficiency curve to get a 64 CU (4096 SP) chip to use 225W. If its like the 580 where 1.5 GHz is possible, but only if you want to dump a ridiculous amount of power on the card, then I don't know how much extra room they have. HBM2 will reduce the overall total power, but not by a significant amount since most cards don't use more than 35W for the VRAM, so you're perhaps giving yourself ~20W in savings.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Based on a post from Glo. I don't think Vega will be hitting 1.5 GHz on Air. The fact that Vega will need an AIO to run at 1.5 GHz is kind of bad news - make me think that this clock will be hit with a 'Boost BIOS' like Polaris (and worse perf/watt because of it). I don't think we will see boost clocks above ~ 1.4 GHz. Still, with a major uarch upgrade, I expect Vega to have much better perf/watt than Polaris from significantly better perf/CU and plenty of memory bandwidth (and maybe beyond plenty with HBC - this will be interesting to see).

The best reason for offering an AIO cooling solution with Vega would be to best the 1080Ti, the other could just be because the top clocked GPU is hot enough to fry a steak on it - so I hope the reason is the former.

I think that financially, AMD was lacking the money to do much for Polaris, so all their chips are in on Vega.
 

Crumpet

Senior member
Jan 15, 2017
745
539
96
Based on a post from Glo. I don't think Vega will be hitting 1.5 GHz on Air. The fact that Vega will need an AIO to run at 1.5 GHz is kind of bad news - make me think that this clock will be hit with a 'Boost BIOS' like Polaris (and worse perf/watt because of it). I don't think we will see boost clocks above ~ 1.4 GHz. Still, with a major uarch upgrade, I expect Vega to have much better perf/watt than Polaris from significantly better perf/CU and plenty of memory bandwidth (and maybe beyond plenty with HBC - this will be interesting to see).

The best reason for offering an AIO cooling solution with Vega would be to best the 1080Ti, the other could just be because the top clocked GPU is hot enough to fry a steak on it - so I hope the reason is the former.

I think that financially, AMD was lacking the money to do much for Polaris, so all their chips are in on Vega.

Got link?

I was hoping for 1500mhz or higher from Vega.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Got link?

I was hoping for 1500mhz or higher from Vega.

Just our own Glo. Plus the various rumors around the web running from 1.2 GHz (probably ES **) up to 1.6 GHz (Probably BS):

I will give you guys a funny question.

What if, 687F:C1, 1.2 GHz GPU demoed by AMD, averaging 72(Exactly on par with GTX 1080 Ti) FPS in Doom 4K, Vulkan is not top of the line GPU?
What if there will be 1.5 GHz, water cooled version of the same GPU?

** Even if this was an ES chip, there could well be a cut down and/or down clocked Vega at the same performance level
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
AMD is being very quiet. So it seems like they either don't have something great (not shouting from the roof tops) or they are sandbagging like the dickens and plan on surprising people as they did with Ryzen. With the lack of solid evidence out there, we are just stuck reading tea leaves and hoping that AMD is sandbagging (and that they will inject some much needed competition back into the market).
 
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