(Veloci)Raptor 600GB

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Can you get it set for SATA mode?

It only offers Legacy or Native IDE SATA mode. I'm assuming Native IDE mode is Native SATA?

 

[Old Hippie]

by next year $200 will buy you 300GB of fast SSD.

You're far more optomistic than I.

I'm thinkin 2-3 years for that price.

 

[sxr7171]

What I want is a fast SSD that can saturate SATA 3Gbps while costing less than $1/GB for a 300-500GB capacity. Obviously I'm being underserved by today's marketing fad and focus on tiny, expensive SSDs that can't even saturate the bus.

It's no fad. It's a start. Back when the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD types were fighting the HD-DVD were going on and on about cost. Well Blu-Ray players are $99 now. Why would we have settled for a half-assed format for SHORT-TERM cheapness?

Semiconductors get cheaper and better FAST. In 2 years mark my words enthusiasts will be using only SSDs in everything except NAS storage.

Just wait, you can't expect it come out in your price range in the capacities you want. Right now it works well for OS drives for people willing to spend some cash on performance. This year 320GB will be $450 from Intel. I can't imagine needing more than that for OS + Apps + Games.

If you think you need to store your media on that kind of device you must also believe in showering in Dom Perignon.

Any cheap 5400RPM drive serves up media just fine. It could serve up 5 Blu-Ray video streams simultaneously. At least.

 

[cbn]

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17076/1/

I'm pretty excited. I don't know if this is a simple doubling of the platter density or if they're going back to larger platters. Maybe the latter, since another posting said that WD might be dropping the "Veloci" part of the name. The drive will be two platters so they aren't just adding platters.

Also of note is that cache size will increase and the interface will be SATA 6Gbps.

Before everyone starts saying it is no longer relevant due to SSDs...



Can you guys imagine a $200 600GB drive with better performance than any other desktop drive on the market? 500GB of SSDs will run around $1400.

One thing that disappoints me about the 300 GB Raptor is the use of 2.5" platters. Maybe this drive will correct some of the losses that occur from shrinking platter diameter down so low?

At one point I couldn't figure why WD did this? I mean what advantage is spinning something 10,000 rpm if the circumference of the disk/platter is reduced? Wouldn't running a larger diameter platter @ slower speeds accomplish the same thing?

 

[sxr7171]

You're far more optomistic than I.

I'm thinkin 2-3 years for that price.

Intel 160GB is $450 now. They are going to release 160Gb and 320GB THIS YEAR at the price points of the old 80GB and 160GB. It's been announced. I don't know if you know but semiconductors progress in geometric progression not linear progression.

In 2-3 years 1TB at $200. Mark my words. Come back here to read them. I don't claim to know the future, but apply simple Moore's law.

 

[Old Hippie]

I'm assuming Native IDE mode is Native SATA?

I'm not familiar with the BIOS on your board but if it's the GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P in your sig. I would think there'd be a SATA mode in the BIOS for your drives.

 

[Old Hippie]

In 2-3 years 1TB at $200. Mark my words. Come back here to read them.

Will Do! :biggrin:

 

[sxr7171]

I hope these have 3.5" platters.

Assuming density is the same on the larger diameter platters, I would think the read/write arm would able to cover more platter real estate @ the same 10,000 rpm.

The whole purpose of those drives was faster RANDOM ACCESS, so I wouldn't design something around 3.5" platters.

In terms of random access SSDs are whipping these dinosaurs.

What would you use this drive for? OS? I wouldn't.

Maybe game storage for the ones who can't afford SSDs?

I know it's easier to cling to old ways of thinking, but nobody really progresses that way. The future is SSD for all performance applications. Magnetic platters will be for BULK STORAGE only.

 

[sxr7171]

Will Do! :biggrin:

Did you read about the Toshiba's 1TB in a postage stamp today? I know it's probably ungodly expensive right now, but 2-3 years is a very long time in semiconductors.

 

[cbn]

The whole of those drives was faster RANDOM ACCESS, so I wouldn't design something around 3.5" platters.

But wouldn't it be better to store more information at the periphery of a 3.5" platter and have the platter spin 10,000 rpm.

If the platter is 2.5" more data needs to be stored near the center of the platter where the area read by the arm progressively decreases per unit time.

 

[sxr7171]

But wouldn't it be better to store more information at the periphery of a 3.5" platter and have the platter spin 10,000 rpm.

If the platter is 2.5" more data needs to be stored near the center of the platter where the area read by the arm progressively decreases per unit time.

Yes, but seek times are much better and that is design goal of having 10,000 RPM. Much more so than the linear read speed. That has always been the rationale behind higher rotational speeds and has always been the design goal for the Velociraptor series.

In any case you cannot get the sustained transfer speeds of an SSD with even 15,000 RPM and 3.5" platters at the outer surfaces. Besides I think there are limits as to what can be done with current magnetic reading and writing technology with such high rotational speeds and areal density. It's not easy. Which is why magnetic data storage in 5 years probably won't be around. Its development cannot proceed as fast as semiconductors storing the bits.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I'm not familiar with the BIOS on your board but if it's the GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P in your sig. I would think there'd be a SATA mode in the BIOS for your drives.

Yes, I am talking about the UD3P.

I think Legacy IDE SATA has something to do with the bios assigning an IRQ to that specific device only... am I wrong?

 

[RaistlinZ]

The whole of those drives was faster RANDOM ACCESS, so I wouldn't design something around 3.5" platters.

In terms of random access SSDs are whipping these dinosaurs.

What would you use this drive for? OS? I wouldn't.

Maybe game storage for the ones who can't afford SSDs?

I know it's easier to cling to old ways of thinking, but nobody really progresses that way. The future is SSD for all performance applications. Magnetic platters will be for BULK STORAGE only.

I agree. People looking to the 600GB Raptor are trying to get the best of both worlds but are actually getting neither. The Raptor will be slower than an SSD for your OS and apps, and it won't store your music, photos, and docs any faster than a 7,200RPM drive will.

 

[Emulex]

600gb is the industry server sas 3.5" 15K standard now - 450gb was prior. these are probably enterprise driver rejects that couldn't cut the SAS muster.

72/146/300/450/600 with the lower to 300gb in 2.5" and 146 up in 3.5" (10 or 15K) are sold in industry standard servers - i suspect they swap a sata driver in for market but WD has been trying to get into the ISS market for a while - hitachi/seagate being the leaders

 

[Glenn]

Having had raptors in raid and several flavors of SSD's in raid and as singles, I can't wait for the day I don't have any rotational drives in my systems any more. Hot, noisy, unreliable and always in the way of airflow or my hands when I'm doing something in the case. Top that off with them being way slower for everyday uses and I can hardly wait for the day I will be without them completely. As soon as it makes financial sense to do so, i'm gone.

Plus! Think how much fun it will be to tweak the other bottlenecks in the system for a change? Data has been the boat anchor for performance for so long the demise of rotational drives will usher in a new era of performance tweaking!

 

[Zillatech]

I think the new 600gb Raptors will find their place but I also think they will be short lived. Let's see how they perform before we cast them aside. I am however very excited about SSD's and the progress they are making. I don't have one in my system yet but will with my next build.

I personally don't use a ton of storage so I'm always interested in anything "Faster" so I welcome the new Raptors but I hope WD does better out of the gate with reliability compared to the VelociRaptors. There were many problems early on with those so even if the 600gb models are released in the next couple of months, I would hesitate to buy one until they are proven over time. I'm thinking about maybe putting (2) 600gb Raptor drives in RAID-1 for DATA and using SSD's for the OS, RAID-0 or not.
Good luck WD, you better get into the SSD market soon!!!

 

[Udgnim]

Hmmm. Makes me want to return this recently bought 3g Vraptor. Btw, can anyone share their HD tune (free trial) 3g vraptor results? I'd like to know if there is something wrong with the one I have.

Mine:
Transfer Rate
51.7 MB/sec (minimum)
122.6 MB/sec (maximum)
97.8 MB/sec (average)

Access Time
7.5ms

Burst Rate
200.0 MB/sec

For some reason, it feels slow... Thanks i.a.

EDIT: in my bios, it's automatically set to Legacy IDE mode rather than Native IDE mode

 

[Zap]

[thread] I'm not dead yet. [/thread]

At one point I couldn't figure why WD did this? I mean what advantage is spinning something 10,000 rpm if the circumference of the disk/platter is reduced? Wouldn't running a larger diameter platter @ slower speeds accomplish the same thing?

What exactly makes SSDs feel so much faster than HDDs? Access times, or lack thereof. Spinning faster and using a smaller platter decreases access times.

Intel 160GB is $450 now.

Uh, try actually finding a place having actual stock and selling for that price without using cashback or other tricks. :hmm:

The future is SSD for all performance applications. Magnetic platters will be for BULK STORAGE only.

"Solid state" drives contrary to mechanical, maybe, but not in the current incarnation of using NAND.

 

[Voo]

What exactly makes SSDs feel so much faster than HDDs? Access times, or lack thereof. Spinning faster and using a smaller platter decreases access times.

Yep it's the order of magnitudes faster access times that do that.. and I have my doubts that the difference between 10ms and 5ms is the same as 10ms vs. .1ms

 

[MagickMan]

You're far more optomistic than I.

I'm thinkin 2-3 years for that price.

Yeah, that won't happen until late in 2012, if then.

 

[MagickMan]

Uh, try actually finding a place having actual stock and selling for that price without using cashback or other tricks. :hmm:

Like this? It's where I bought mine 2 weeks ago.

http://www.provantage.com/intel-ssds...1~7ITE90LJ.htm

 

[Zap]

Like this? It's where I bought mine 2 weeks ago.

http://www.provantage.com/intel-ssds...1~7ITE90LJ.htm

Heh, I was proven wrong. :\ Guess I was looking at more popular etailers.

 

[Bull Dog]

Well since this has degenerated into a SSD vs Mechanical HDD discussion I'll put my two cents in.


I have a HP dv2z laptop (AMD Turion Neo x2 1.6GHz, 2GB of Ram) with an OCZ Agility 120GB SSD in it and it boots faster than my desktop system (AMD Phenom II @ 3.6GHz, 8GB of Ram) with a 2TB Hitachi HDD. Both computers are running Windows 7 Pro.


I recently upgraded my dad's computer from an 80GB HDD to an OCZ Agility 60GB SSD. I also upgraded him to Windows 7 at the same time. His computer can go from cold boot to desktop ready to use in 30 seconds.


You know that little startup logo that animates as Windows 7 is loading? It doesn't even get time to finish before the computer is done loading Windows.



I'm sold on SSDs

 

[Emulex]

there's plenty of non-retail ssd in channel now - even the X18-M Gen2

keep in mind if you know someone that sells gear ; they can snipe gear for you. depending on their sales volume and the item in question.

snipe tactics are common because the big wholesalers back order systems run in asynchronous batch mode - hourly - daily - etc - so stock can replenish between job runs - this is when someone who checks stock every 15 minutes can grab new stock on order and essentially cut in line.

Another thing is that resellers that are not etailers do not care if a SSD sells above msrp. it accounts for maybe 1 in 1000 sales - peanuts - so we'd never mark it up like etailers who dynamically adjust pricing on hot items because folks don't bother to use their noggin to shop the business side.

and provantage is not small. and no i dont work for them. and no i don't do sales - but i do work for a reseller.

Etailer - sometimes charges for shipping - has poo for support - usually charges for rma shipping (ie no free call tag) - may charge restocking fee

business - cost is higher most of the time(not always) - never charges for standard shipping - will hunt down a part if it takes 2 people 8 hours - always pays for call tag rma unless its a really bad order mistake (i ordered an apple; i meant to order an hp customer mistake); never charges restocking fee -- has electronic interfaces to process orders.

amazon - mix of both - because they are made dope rich. everyone aspires to be amazon.

 

[jhansman]

What kind of heat will this drive generate? My 74GB Raptor boot drive is one hot little puppy.