Venting about job applicants

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inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,387
2
41
Head hunters for companies are complete failure to me.

I have been doing hardware and software programming since I was 13-14 years old and when I used to work at the WORLD BANK I had people coming up to me with computer questions who had over 5 computer degrees! I helped them all and had a similar guy like me at the bank who knew nothing about computers but taught himself EXCEL MACRO programming and he was hired to support the MS OFFICE team.

He and I would be repairing these 80 million dollar documents for the bank that got corrupted some how and people called us the true hackers. LOL!!!!!!!!

But above is my point that many times my resume would be glossed over for some johnny come lately who only has paper cert and little to no field work.

I put myself in the same league as Peter Jennings and a few other people.
Having a degree does not make you smart. Having history in the industry does!
So I would tell head hunters please use those document scanners for only 5% of your job and do the other half as honest as you can.

Yes I read those newspaper reports of people sitting in for interviewers and a promising CEO getting a job interview in his jogging outfit. Or that girl during her interview took off her shoes and placed her socks on the interviewers desk!

Yeah, disgusting people all over. Be & stay honest and do not use those scanners so much as a crutch. Yeah your eyes will get red but one day someone will thank you so much it might make you cry.

The head hunters I hate are the ones who ask everything of you SSN, DOB and never get you that job and because they use your SSN for hiring illegals.
 

PenguinPower

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,538
15
81
Have you ever needed to hire people for your own business? What you're probably not getting from his post is all the major PITA of the whole process that can never be escaped. It's really frustrating to deal with idiots who want the job you posted even though they have no business applying for it. I'm about to go through this again and I'm dreading it.

There's no perfect solution. You either post a job with low qualifications and get 11ty billion responses, which will cause you to miss the diamond in the rough, or you elevate the qualifications to prevent the bottom of the barrel applicants from wasting your time. The latter method has other implications, but there's no way to do it perfectly. Trying to score a good employee (the latter option) is the only sensible option for a business.

No...you actively source. The best candidates are most often passive candidates and will rarely apply unprompted.
 

inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,387
2
41
Evidently tailoring your resume and making a cover letter is the first step.

I did that once. It does increase the amount of interviews but only by couple of percent.


But if you see a job you think you were born for then for the love peanut butter do not send a generic resume!!!! That is pure fail!
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
92
91
I've been on both the hiring and applying side of the table, so you calling me a "moron" doesn't phase me. If anything it goes to show how clueless you are when in one breath you talk about wanting "least amount of work" for yourself and then complain about those
who "don't want to work hard for a good job." So basically you want to hire someone with a better work ethic than you.

I'm also amused by how you think you differentiated" yourself in college.

Compared to the average student with my degree, yes, I definitely differentiated myself. I was told multiple times by interviewers that I was picked for an interview specifically because I stood out. All it takes is a little bit of thinking. I took an unpaid internship position during my sophomore year to get experience and then worked a job at night to pay the bills. The following two years, I got paid internships at Intel. By the time I graduated, I had almost 18 months of experience doing actual design. Nice try, though.

I started my engineering business from nothing while working a 9-5 job during the day. No one can ever accuse me of having low work ethic - not seriously, anyway. I had two engineering jobs for five years.

If you seriously can't understand why a person running a business would want to minimize the required amount of time it takes to hire someone by offloading some of the weeding out, you must truly be a moron. On that note, a moron wouldn't be phased by hearing how much of a moron they are, so that makes perfect sense.

Anyway, all we're really talking about here is raising the bar to screen people out ahead of time. It's such a basic concept that I really can't even understand why you're being so militant about the opposing point of view. If I can prevent 400 people from wasting a single minute of my time, I just saved almost 7 hours of my day. So, yes, I want to do the least amount of work to find the best candidate because that's fucking logical. If I could do absolutely no work to find the best candidate, I would do it.

No...you actively source. The best candidates are most often passive candidates and will rarely apply unprompted.

I do both. 4/15 of my employees were referrals, but I can't rely on that obviously, so I also run ads.
 

PenguinPower

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,538
15
81
I do both. 4/15 of my employees were referrals, but I can't rely on that obviously, so I also run ads.

Referrals aren't sourcing. Referrals are reactive. Sourcing is proactive (e.g. boolean searches through search engines, resume databases or social media sites; networking either through events or social media)
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
92
91
Referrals aren't sourcing. Referrals are reactive. Sourcing is proactive (e.g. boolean searches through search engines, resume databases or social media sites; networking either through events or social media)

I didn't write out my entire hiring procedure for you to review. When I need someone, but time isn't a big issue, I look through business cards from conferences, LinkedIn (I found an employee on LinkedIn in April, met him for lunch, and hired him that day), and sometimes I browse monster.com, but rarely.
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
I dont totally disagree with weeding people oyt because there are tons of worthless people out there. You aren't likely to miss anyone great by raising reqs. I'm sure everyone on atot is worthy of a great job but I just had my first experience getting someone and the agency sent us people that didn't even know what was on their own resume, couldn't speak English or lived hours away. One person we chose came to work for a week and vanished. This was a $40/hr IT job... not some fast food joint but you wouldn't know the difference based on the applicants.
 

PenguinPower

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,538
15
81
I didn't write out my entire hiring procedure for you to review. When I need someone, but time isn't a big issue, I look through business cards from conferences, LinkedIn (I found an employee on LinkedIn in April, met him for lunch, and hired him that day), and sometimes I browse monster.com, but rarely.

Ok. But you followed "I do both" with "referrals" so it wasn't a large leap to make that you considered referrals to be sourcing. You could have at least said "I do both. 2/15 of my employees were identified through database searches of the top job boards and social media sites."
 

james1701

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2007
1,873
59
91
This reminds me a of the job I applied for at a large IT company. It was for an entry level help desk technician but they wanted 5 years of IBX experience.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
Confirmed that all applicants came through sites like monster. No recruiter involved.

Just want to point out again, my construction estimator scenario was an example, not the actual job. The similarity is in needing to use a specialized software tool that I want someone to have a year's experience with. Or if not, write a cover letter that convinces me that it's not a must-have. I had one of those a few years ago, might have another one this time.

But I am very comfortable saying that a resume from someone with zero relevant experience and no cover letter to tell me WHY they should be considered given they do not have the qualifications, is going in the round file immediately.

It's certainly possible I could be missing a diamond in the rough, but at least put up your hand and explain to me why you're a diamond. I'm not going to interview two dozen people on a long shot as long as I have actual qualified candidates to talk to first. And I have no clairvoyant powers that enable me to read a resume from a warehouse manager with no relevant experience or qualifications and detect that's the person I need.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
"Wanted: 5+ years experience in this new-ish technology that was invented 2 years ago"...

Yeah, most job requirements are so very meaningful.

LOL, I went on job interviews in the late 90's / early 00's with these kinds of requirements.

So many hiring managers were more HR than tech types then.

At least for me now, most of my first phone/face time is with someone technical that I can bounce my knowledgebase off of and show I have the aptitude and skills they need.

I do still see things like wanting major skillsets that have nothing to really do with the position and if those types existed would be asking for way more money than offered.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
The problem is that many companies for a long time have either been too heavy handed (nobody has those qualifications) or have simply put the qualifications there to dissuade some applicants.

How is a job applicant to know that you really do mean they must be a/b/c when many other companies don't care?

Hell, even in your description, you are saying "But we would take them if they gave us a good reason why they don't meet the qualifications". Is it any wonder that applicants ignore required qualifications?

This, second post got it right. I've seen the same crap every time I've gone looking for a job.

I usually review the requirements for any job roughly in my field, then bump them against my credentials and resume; if I believe I could do the job, I apply and address the requirements in my cover letter.

Do not make me upload a resume and cover letter only to re-enter all that information by hand on the next screen.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Confirmed that all applicants came through sites like monster. No recruiter involved.

Just want to point out again, my construction estimator scenario was an example, not the actual job. The similarity is in needing to use a specialized software tool that I want someone to have a year's experience with. Or if not, write a cover letter that convinces me that it's not a must-have. I had one of those a few years ago, might have another one this time.

But I am very comfortable saying that a resume from someone with zero relevant experience and no cover letter to tell me WHY they should be considered given they do not have the qualifications, is going in the round file immediately.

It's certainly possible I could be missing a diamond in the rough, but at least put up your hand and explain to me why you're a diamond. I'm not going to interview two dozen people on a long shot as long as I have actual qualified candidates to talk to first. And I have no clairvoyant powers that enable me to read a resume from a warehouse manager with no relevant experience or qualifications and detect that's the person I need.

One year experience in a specialized COTS application is one of those boilerplate "requirements" that people have long ago realized isn't actually a requirement. And 1 year experience is nothing, you'd probably spend the same amount of time training up someone from scratch as you would getting the guy with outside "experience" up to speed with how you do things in your shop and "untraining" them of the bad habits learned at their old job. And again unless you have written business rules the "experience" of your hire is basically worthless anyway.
 

arkcom

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2003
1,816
0
76
Here's a semi related question for you guys. What do you do when you can't get interviews for even the most basic positions, with requirements like: G.E.D. and desire to learn?
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
Here's a semi related question for you guys. What do you do when you can't get interviews for even the most basic positions, with requirements like: G.E.D. and desire to learn?

Start a business and hustle like a mother fucker.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Here's a semi related question for you guys. What do you do when you can't get interviews for even the most basic positions, with requirements like: G.E.D. and desire to learn?

In what field? I find it hard to believe you can't get a callback for something like a call center job provided you can write and speak intelligibly.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
That's what I did soon after graduating, and might be causing me problems getting work now.

Pardon the obvious, is the business related to the work you're trying to do now?
 

arkcom

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2003
1,816
0
76
Degree is in Physics minored in Math (I think everyone minored in math)
Business was selling electric bicycle kits online. (5 yrs)

Some most recently applied/denied (last 2 months, not exhaustive) -

Entry shop laborer
Electromechanical Assembler 1 at an engineering services place
Computer Lab Attendant at a university
Computer Support Technician at a university
Assembly line jobs at the Walmart optical factory


Actually had interviews for a couple higher end positions (not recently)-

Technical Services/Problem Solver at Epic Systems
Nuclear Power Plant Operator at a couple of plants
Business Analyst at a recruiter
Grant Writer at a high tech research place associated with the university. The owner was a jerk and by the end of the interview the position devolved into his personal assistant, but I still tried my best.

Anyway, don't want to derail this thread much more.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
Yeah I would probably be inclined to say your experience doesn't match up with the jobs you're applying for either.
 

xaeniac

Golden Member
Feb 4, 2005
1,641
14
81
welcome to the new America. Where jobs are not paying what they should and asking for an expert in multiple areas.
 

GrumpyMan

Diamond Member
May 14, 2001
5,778
262
136
It may be something as simple as they are fishing for a job and you are fishing for an employee. 2 out of 18 qualified seems like pretty good results. If you caught 2 keeper fish with every 18 casts, I would call that a good day of fishing. Also I might add that to get things like unemployment benefits and other social services while unemployed, you have to show that you are a least sending out resumes to keep getting those benefits.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,436
3,547
126
Kranky - I feel for you but its part of the environment that's been created. Businesses are no longer listing for what they will except - just what they hope they can find. Job postings have forgotten what 'Required' even means. Too often I have seen 'Requires X years of experience' where in reality they would gladly accept the much lower Y years. How is a job applicant supposed to know what is actually required anymore?

Because often times HR creates the listing. Get limited feedback from the IT staff on their requirements. HR person doesnt know any better.

Apparently there are some HR sites\software that help you create job descriptions based on job title or vise versa.

I found this out when I recently got a promotion to a newly created position. My boss gave my job title and description to the HR dept. When I got my copy it had been HR-ified. I showed it to my boss and told him I would have to give my two weeks because I no longer qualified for the job they created for me. Apparently HR looked up the qualifications based on my job title and partially re-wrote it requiring certs for hardware\software we have never even used
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
Kranky - I feel for you but its part of the environment that's been created. Businesses are no longer listing for what they will except - just what they hope they can find. Job postings have forgotten what 'Required' even means. Too often I have seen 'Requires X years of experience' where in reality they would gladly accept the much lower Y years. How is a job applicant supposed to know what is actually required anymore?

Isn't that kinda the point of this thread? If you're clearly not qualified based on the job description as written, at least make the case for why you would be a good fit in the cover letter.

However, OP has gotten a ton of applicants (apparently) that don't have the qualifications OR a cover letter. What the fuck is the point of that as an applicant?
 
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