Verizon Wireless to start implementing New Data Requirement for "3G" phones?

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Parasitic

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2002
4,001
2
0
It's probably not going to be long before all carriers require a data plan.
Considering the networks are basically becoming pure data networks anyway (using VOIP), there won't be any technical reason not to, so might as well include it and charge for it.

Most carriers already require a data plan on smartphones.
 

phoenix79

Golden Member
Jan 17, 2000
1,603
0
0
i believe 4G is all IP, in which case there should only be a data charge. not minutes, not texts, not pics, not whatever. just data.

unfortunately it'll never happen that way.
It would only work that way where you get 4G signal, wander out of range and all the sudden you get nothing?
 

Parasitic

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2002
4,001
2
0
Actually never mind, I think you can get around the data plan requirement with Verizon by paying full retail on the phone.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
It would only work that way where you get 4G signal, wander out of range and all the sudden you get nothing?

4G should be more difficult wandering out of range as the towers cover so much geographic area. i.e. an urban park shouldn't have a dead zone in the middle. i wouldn't doubt that clear's 4G coverage of some towns here in texas is done with a single tower each.

but, to answer your question, 4G is all packet switched, whereas 3G is a combination of packet and circuit switching. so if you were to leave the 4G area while making a call, you might get dropped. i suppose for quality reasons the phones and networks would have some way to hand off to 3G without interruption.


edit: apparently LTE isn't fully 4G, though it does appear to be all IP. i'm not sure where it comes up short.
 
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Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Guess they got to pay back those huge amounts of cash they spent on wireless spectrum auctions. Wait, didn't they use shell companies to buy that spectrum cheap ? But it is getting near bonus time for execs ! The depths of corruption and ability to screw the telecom customer never ceases to amaze.
 

middlehead

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2004
4,573
2
81
25MB for $10? I was told when I got my env3 and restructured that the $10 was unlimited/as-unlimited-as-Verizon-gets.
 

Ika

Lifer
Mar 22, 2006
14,267
3
81
when did you go in that they changed the plan? it says this is a 2010 thing. i just ordered the alias2 today to get in before the change tooks place.

I dont see how much longer I will be with verizon because there are less and less phones to be able to get with my grandfathered plan which is i guess, what their plans are.

My dad upgraded his phone sometime between Christmas and New Years, and he thought I could upgrade to an enV Touch or a Rogue without changing the plan we had. We went in maybe a few days after New Years (the 3rd or 4th, maybe) and they bumped up all the prices and added this stupid $10 data plan for "multimedia" phones. That left me with the enV3 as the best phone in the entire store I could get without upgrading my plan.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
This is retarded. I don't agree with requiring data plans on smartphones, granted I also don't see the point of having one without it but the consumer should have the choice.

Without a data plan you can still use wifi on a lot of smartphones. I don't get to do that much either (browsing is laborious and isn't all that fun) but even if I had a data plan I don't see myself using it with any regularity... am I going to leave FB open or something? Browse ATOT while in the can (which I can already do with the wifi router at home)? I'm a tech guy and even I don't have that much to do with it on-the-go, unless I'm sitting at the mall waiting for my wife. But seriously, $1 a day when I might actually make real use of it 3 times a month at most? Nah...

People with iphones and blackberrys (not for work)... what do you use the data plan for and how often? I see this surprisingly pervasive technology as extremely unnecessary even by today's standards.
 
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JohnAn2112

Diamond Member
May 8, 2003
4,895
1
81
lol, so Verizon is moving to what AT&T does.

Too bad you can't use unlocked phones to get around this ><

I don't believe AT&T has gone this far yet. They just started enforcing a mandatory data plan on smartphones (which Verizon has done for the last few years), but multimedia phones don't require it yet.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
106
erm... how do they know what phone you have?

oh right. fucking CDMA.

All GSM carriers know what phone you have too, unless you illegally clone your IMEI.

In which case, you can, also illegally, clone ESNs and MEIDs.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
126
Guess they got to pay back those huge amounts of cash they spent on wireless spectrum auctions. Wait, didn't they use shell companies to buy that spectrum cheap ? But it is getting near bonus time for execs ! The depths of corruption and ability to screw the telecom customer never ceases to amaze.

They've made tons of money off of text messages.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,158
20
81
All GSM carriers know what phone you have too, unless you illegally clone your IMEI.

In which case, you can, also illegally, clone ESNs and MEIDs.

They can find out what you have easily if you use a carrier subsidized phone, or a phone bought from them. If you decide to jump into the world of unlocked phones, they don't know what the crap you have. And the only way they could find out is probably if they had a warrant to go searching for you and the FBI's looking at all your records, and you're America's Most Wanted.

Without a data plan you can still use wifi on a lot of smartphones. I don't get to do that much either (browsing is laborious and isn't all that fun) but even if I had a data plan I don't see myself using it with any regularity... am I going to leave FB open or something? Browse ATOT while in the can (which I can already do with the wifi router at home)? I'm a tech guy and even I don't have that much to do with it on-the-go, unless I'm sitting at the mall waiting for my wife. But seriously, $1 a day when I might actually make real use of it 3 times a month at most? Nah...

People with iphones and blackberrys (not for work)... what do you use the data plan for and how often? I see this surprisingly pervasive technology as extremely unnecessary even by today's standards.

It's laborious on a crap phone. The iPhone makes browsing a lot easier. I'm sure we can do even better, but browsing on a BB and on older phones is a joke. I see what you mean, but I've owned an iPod touch for a long time, and the switch to iPhone was like WHOAH. Data on the fly. I had an iPod Touch with my Nokia N-series (smartphone btw) and I always felt limited. I need to tether my iPod to my N-series to do stuff. Sure at work and home you're covered, but at both these places, do you really need a cell phone? Land line and office phone got you covered unless you're doing other stuff. Similarly, at office and home, you have a computer to surf on. Why use your smartphone.

The smartphone is if you're at a restaurant with friends and you guys are discussing and something and you have the option of searching up Google or WIkipedia for whatever the hell you guys are talking about. The data connectivity on the go is priceless. While Wifi is NICE to have, once you have a constant 3G connection going, you might as well trash Wifi because it's... unnecessary.

I don't believe AT&T has gone this far yet. They just started enforcing a mandatory data plan on smartphones (which Verizon has done for the last few years), but multimedia phones don't require it yet.

Oh ok, sorry I re-read the OP and I get what you mean. Yeah Verizon ins taking this step forward.

But here's the thing guys, it's not REQUIRED for you unless you want to buy a subsidized phone. You can still buy the phone at regular price. I realize that signing a 2 year contract can work out anyway, but to force you to buy things is kinda outrageous. You might as well bring in an unlocked phone or just buy the phone w/o a plan from AT&T/Verizon if you don't wanna screw with this crap.

I got a subsidized phone the very first time and that was it. You can call me stupid for spending $600 on phones every once in a while, but I'm still on the $15 data plan, and AT&T does not know what phone I have. Unless of course I plug in my iPhone...
 
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jersiq

Senior member
May 18, 2005
887
1
0
4G should be more difficult wandering out of range as the towers cover so much geographic area. i.e. an urban park shouldn't have a dead zone in the middle. i wouldn't doubt that clear's 4G coverage of some towns here in texas is done with a single tower each.

but, to answer your question, 4G is all packet switched, whereas 3G is a combination of packet and circuit switching. so if you were to leave the 4G area while making a call, you might get dropped. i suppose for quality reasons the phones and networks would have some way to hand off to 3G without interruption.


edit: apparently LTE isn't fully 4G, though it does appear to be all IP. i'm not sure where it comes up short.

You are confusing your tech here. 3G applies to data rates only. 3G was never circuit switched in CDMA as there was a PDN on the interface between the RAN and the internet. 2G was circuit switched with the IWF providing the "modem" functionality. In CDMA2000 a voice call was only ever allocated a single 14.4k Chanel Element. Data "calls" were handled by the MTSO to be routed to the PDN. You were handed a public IP from a pool on the PDN. But I think I am just mincing words here with you.

Also, OFDMA is sensitive to multipath as the start symbol is highly critical, and providing only a single site will create a ton of multipath within a city. Also, I believe it fails some of the standards for speed to be truly 4G based upon the standards.

Modelworks said:
Guess they got to pay back those huge amounts of cash they spent on wireless spectrum auctions. Wait, didn't they use shell companies to buy that spectrum cheap ? But it is getting near bonus time for execs ! The depths of corruption and ability to screw the telecom customer never ceases to amaze.
I think you may have mentioned this before, but do you have any links that support this claim?

Zee said:
Unlimited is not unlimited with verizon. Unlimited is 5gb a month capped

Again, this is for tethering only. When you tether, you input a dial string that requests an address from a MIP pool. Of course, this request is sent to a AAA server which accounts for your usage.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,158
20
81
How do they know that you're tethering though? Shouldn't it appear the same, except the browser is never requesting the mobile version of any website....

Isn't tethering really just bridging two connections: Say your UMTS connection and your Wifi (if you plan on making your phone an Adhoc station), or bluetooth, or even USB connection to your PC....
 

murphy55d

Lifer
Dec 26, 2000
11,542
5
81
I have an HTC Titan (Verizon XV6800) and was able to get that without any data plan. Treos fell into the same category... both are even smartphones. But even if my next phone requires a data plan, wouldn't you be able to cancel it after a couple months? Sure it adds overall cost but if you want the phone at the reduced cost bad enough...

Non-BlackBerry Smartphones released before November '08(moto Q, Samsung i760, a few Treos, the 6800) do not require a data plan, you can use the pay as you go or the data block. Or the Wifi in the case of the Samsung.

ANY BlackBerry you activate on Verizon WILL have a $30 data plan. The system doesn't allow it not to. Same goes for any smartphone released after November of 08. You either have the $30 plan, or you can't use the phone. You can't just dump the data plan in a few months.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
You either have the $30 plan, or you can't use the phone. You can't just dump the data plan in a few months.

Is this confirmed because I've read about people doing this. Does Verizon just disable access for the entire phone's use on its network if you cancel the data?
 

jersiq

Senior member
May 18, 2005
887
1
0
How do they know that you're tethering though? Shouldn't it appear the same, except the browser is never requesting the mobile version of any website....

Isn't tethering really just bridging two connections: Say your UMTS connection and your Wifi (if you plan on making your phone an Adhoc station), or bluetooth, or even USB connection to your PC....

It's been a long time since I talked to the person I know, I think I have it right. You have to provide credentials for PPP in dial up networking for USB/Bluetooth on your PC. When you do you prompt the dial string of #777 and the PDN prepends a different subdomain for authentication. So, and for the sake of the fact that I have no idea what those domains are, I'll say this:

Tether: you phone authenticates on dialup.network.com
Regular browser access from phone: you authenticate on network.com

IIRC the key is that the dial string is #777 prompting the PDN to authenticate differently.
 

Hyperlite

Diamond Member
May 25, 2004
5,664
2
76
It's pretty much just going to be like this. Carriers are money grubbing bastards. Data is getting cheaper for them, and more expensive for us. However, vzw is still the cheapest option for me. $45 450 min+ $10 unl messaging + $30 Bb Data Plan is $10 less than i would pay on ATT.

Yeah, when the VX6800 first came out, they would let you do a pay-as-you-go data plan (which was astronomically expensive if you didn't keep wireless data OFF) because the phone had wifi. Since then, they don't allow you to buy any smartphone without a data plan.
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,878
2
0
Buy an unlocked phone and use it over wifi.
Also, data plans are data plans, if you get the $10 a month plan (don't tell them you have a smart phone!), it'll work the same as the $30 smart phone plan.

It's really hard to buy an unlocked CDMA phone that doesn't have the carrier software installed from some carrier (if at all possible). The carrier software from all the major CDMA providers I've heard reports blocks the wifi connection if you do not have a data plan activated.
 

HybridSquirrel

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2005
6,161
2
81
so...ive had an env touch since july-ish....does this mean when i add my girlfriend to my line and just use her same phone....we'd have to get at least the $9.99 data plan??
 
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