Vertex 3... I know I said I would never do it.

[nanaki333]

wow.. completely different issue.. BUT! i found an old vertex 1 series with old firmware on it and wanted to update the firmware. here is what i was told about THIS drive.

Comment: you will need to send the drive in to get the firmware updated

 

[nanaki333]

You call a dozen guys over there who don't even know how to implement some known workarounds.. widespread? Do you have any idea how many of these drives are in the market now?

Even with the Sandforce controller chip shortage.. there are thousands of V3's out there already. And some of those noobs over there aren't even doing the basic power options tweaks such as setting to high performance, never shutting the drive down, etc. That alone has fixed quite a few issues lately along with the hotswap settings fixing most others.

Then there's the known issue with H/P67 series boards. This from an ASUS beta-tester

Then theres a known LPM issue with RST drivers.
http://forums.crucial.com/t5/Solid-...eze-ups-in-Windows-7-solved-for-me/td-p/38766

I can go on and on here. Point is that there are far too many variables with all the new platforms, drivers, and hardware to put the blame on any one component or software. Can't really expect a SSD firmware to fix all the issues and only time will sort it all out.

do you work for ocz damage control? i never had these problems with any intel drives. i didn't have to find workarounds to make my drives work, even in raid0. lots of variables there... all the other intel drives i have work fine except 1 that was doa. i have several ocz drives too, even had an onyx and a vertex1 i just found with old firmware that i was told i have to mail in to get my firmware updated. i had v2 drives fail on me and stop being recognized. i guess i should have found some tweaks and work arounds though. maybe keep hitting reset until it recognizes, i hear that works.

point is, i shouldn't have to find a workaround for a drive that costs $550. the only reason i'm using it is because i didn't pay for it.

 

[curlysir]

do you work for ocz damage control? i never had these problems with any intel drives. i didn't have to find workarounds to make my drives work, even in raid0. lots of variables there... all the other intel drives i have work fine except 1 that was doa. i have several ocz drives too, even had an onyx and a vertex1 i just found with old firmware that i was told i have to mail in to get my firmware updated. i had v2 drives fail on me and stop being recognized. i guess i should have found some tweaks and work arounds though. maybe keep hitting reset until it recognizes, i hear that works.

point is, i shouldn't have to find a workaround for a drive that costs $550. the only reason i'm using it is because i didn't pay for it.

FYI: Groberts101 is a BIG OCZ supporter (fanboy) and received a Vertex 3 drive from OCZ to test. Maybe this info will help put some of his comments into perspective.

I too would be very unhappy with a $550 drive that has the problems that you and others are having. Should not have to do workarounds.

 

[groberts101]

Ohhh NOOO!! the jigg is up and everyone knows about me now! LOL

point is that you guys are pretty quick to bitch about OCZ and don't point fingers in any other direction but at them. Like maybe..SANDFORCE?

 

[Voo]

And some of those noobs over there aren't even doing the basic power options tweaks such as setting to high performance, never shutting the drive down, etc. That alone has fixed quite a few issues lately along with the hotswap settings fixing most others.

Yeah how dare those noobs expect their drives to work flawlessly without reading forums and tweaking their OS, drivers, registry settings and whatnot. What a hillarious notion really

But you know what? My Intel G2 still works perfectly fine even though it's subject to exactly the same variables. So don't tell us that its not the drives fault, because other manufacterers seem to be on top of most of those problems. Sure the source of problem X may be a faulty setting of component Y, but as we see there are ways to remedy that, without the users having to jump through loops.

And sorry, but why would they care about SF if it's OCZ selling those drives. If another part of my PC, say MB, has a problematic/faulty component I still will go to the company that sold me the MB and not start hunting down the taiwanese manufacterer of that one component. There's a reason those companies have large QA departments..

 

[VirtualLarry]

i'll try out those beta drivers when i get home and let everyone know the results. thanks for the input!

thanks for your helpful insight grobster. i reinstalled several times with multiple drivers. am i hater? absolutely! of all of the ocz ssd's i own, more than half have stopped working and had to be rma'd. to have to jump through hoops to get this new drive to work is a bit of an annoyance to say the least. for $550, you bet your ass i would expect this drive to be able to just be plug 'n play.

One of the Microcenter salespeople in the components section of the store is not a big fan of SSDs either. He says that they die in like 6 months. They're fast and they're fun, but not a replacement for platter drives, because they're simply not reliable yet.

Sadly, he's right.

 

[nanaki333]

One of the Microcenter salespeople in the components section of the store is not a big fan of SSDs either. He says that they die in like 6 months. They're fast and they're fun, but not a replacement for platter drives, because they're simply not reliable yet.

Sadly, he's right.

that explains why they constantly have the microcenter brand SSD "open box" drives always on sale. my intel G1s lasted over 2 years in raid0 with no problems. i should have used the old saying... If it ain't broke, dun fixxit!

 

[Voo]

One of the Microcenter salespeople in the components section of the store is not a big fan of SSDs either. He says that they die in like 6 months. They're fast and they're fun, but not a replacement for platter drives, because they're simply not reliable yet.

Sadly, he's right.

And that's based on which data? The only halfway reliable data (and no newegg reviews really don't count) I know of, shows that the return rates for SSDs aren't higher than for HDDs (and that's excluding 2tb+ 7.2k rpm drives which are almost off the charts) while Intel SSDs have a by far lower return rate.

 

[Hyperlite]

Regardless of what anyone's fanboy affiliations may be, i don't think anyone here can deny the reputation OCZ has versus that of Intel in the SSD arena.

 

[nanaki333]

Regardless of what anyone's fanboy affiliations may be, i don't think anyone here can deny the reputation OCZ has versus that of Intel in the SSD arena.

i'm actually a die hard intel fanboy when it comes to ssd just based on personal experience with them. i'm not ashamed to admit that. although, having said that, i own MORE ocz ssd's than intel in total. i've only had 1 intel fail, and that was just doa. i think the best ocz drive i have is an onyx, which i gave to a friend that uses it and loves it still. never showed any signs of failure

and i'm still going to use that v3 until i i get a couple of 320s for raid0

 

[=Wendy=]

I have around 11 SSDs, from OCZ Core V2 right up to Vertex 3 and RevoDrive X2, and also SSDs from Intel, Crucial, Corsair, and Plextor to name a few, and none of them have failed. All of them have been hammered as well.

Regarding reputation, none are 100%, not even Intel. Remember the G1?
Intel never gave that SSD TRIM support, and they could have done so very easily.
The G2 and G3 use the same controller, but will Intel give the G2 the same sequential performance as the G3 via a firmware update?
NOT a chance in hell.

 

[SickBeast]

I have around 11 SSDs, from OCZ Core V2 right up to Vertex 3 and RevoDrive X2, and also SSDs from Intel, Crucial, Corsair, and Plextor to name a few, and none of them have failed. All of them have been hammered as well.

Regarding reputation, none are 100%, not even Intel. Remember the G1?
Intel never gave that SSD TRIM support, and they could have done so very easily.
The G2 and G3 use the same controller, but will Intel give the G2 the same sequential performance as the G3 via a firmware update?
NOT a chance in hell.

That's good to hear.

I had my Vertex 2 60gb go haywire after a firmware flash in Windows, but I managed to solve it by re-flashing it under Linux.

If people aren't comfortable updating firmware and troubleshooting things themselves, I don't understand why they even build a computer in the first place.

If you want a computer with no issues to deal with, buy a Mac. You can't have your cake and eat it too when you build a PC yourself, unfortunately.

 

[groberts101]

I've got 14 OCZ SSD's in my house(6 Sandforce and 2 Indilinx on this system alone) and 8 other drives in my family members systems that have been flawless as well.

So just like all the Intel fanboys touting its "legendary" reliability? I'll stick with what has served me well so far with more than 40+ tested from various mfgrs.

All I do know from my experience around here is that many are extremely biased and extremely combative/flamer types whose perceptions are too easily skewed into thinking that the grass is always greenest on their side of the fence. Kinda like "I know it all" teenagers with too much false pride built up to make themselves feel superior in some way.

I prefer not to pull the wool over my own eyes to see the Intel or Crucial logo written on the lining. lol

Big business is just that.. big business. I could really care less about all the other crap that goes on as long as it doesn't touch my life's normal paths. So far it hasn't and I still prefer the Sandforce controller over all the others for the price point I live at and data sets I use. It just so happens that I prefer speed over any thing else and it's panned out just fine so far, although I didn't get pulled into all the 25nm/halved channel thing so my world remains happy.

I do actually feel badly for the others that had difficulty with OCZ products but since that money came out of their account and not mine?.. I'll let them deal with the hassles. If I would have recommended the drive to them and it gave issue?.. that might be a different story. With SSD's I'm familiar with, I always give the potential negatives/pitfalls and recommend researching first as Sandforce is well known to be finicky regardless of the one's who package the components and slap a sticker on em'. I'll leave the judgments to all those who live life an a pedestal above us fanboys. :wub:

 

[Hyperlite]

I probably should have added a caveat to my previous statement, being that if you look for problems, you're going to find them. Everywhere. I don't even own an SSD, so i'm just calling it as i see it...but that cuts both ways.

 

[Voo]

Regarding reputation, none are 100%, not even Intel. Remember the G1?
Intel never gave that SSD TRIM support, and they could have done so very easily.
The G2 and G3 use the same controller, but will Intel give the G2 the same sequential performance as the G3 via a firmware update?
NOT a chance in hell.

Valid points but we have to differentiate different problems here. The issue about no TRIM for G1s is quite like Intel and not "nice" to their customers (though are you sure that the G3s use exactly the same controller and flash as G2s? Sounds not that likely and that would make changes necessary). Then the old FW issues when they were released and whatnot show that Intel is far from perfect.

Reliability? No idea if Intel is better than OCZ or whoever in that regard - hard to say. The only thing we can say with some certainty is that compability is much better for Intel drives than for SF drives. Not more not less.

All I do know from my experience around here is that many are extremely biased and extremely combative/flamer types whose perceptions are too easily skewed into thinking that the grass is always greenest on their side of the fence. Kinda like "I know it all" teenagers with too much false pride built up to make themselves feel superior in some way.

Sigh, do we really need that low level of discussion and personal attacks here? It's a pity if your arguments really have to boil down to "Everyone who disagrees with me is a intel fanboy"

 

[groberts101]

LOL. well.. I guess when everyone else starts getting checked for their crappy and offensive discrediting attempts/remarks(though I do think it's cool that the mods jumped in and forced the change of this threads title due to sheer flamer attitude) I may back off and act my age more often. So I'll still have to stand back and just point figers and say "hey!.. he started it". In the end, I tend to just sink down to others levels just to screw with people and rarely care much beyond the point of leaving my chair. Most of it comes from just enjoying the ability to toy with those who think they have it all figured out already.

As for the mood around this joint?.. it gets pretty hard to just swing in and offer advice on this forum with the sheer amount of other members just blowing off steam without much regard to helping the OP of a thread. I actually tried to help him here and over on the OCZ forum where he tried to half-heartedly troubleshoot his issues with this drive so my intentions were genuine form the start.

My guess is that the cards were stacked against this drive even if things had gone smoothly for him. Kind of a "hmmm?.. lets see what I can find wrong with this drive since I hate this company" nitpicking session.

reviews and feedback from genuine interested users will eventually sort things out and we'll soon see where things stand in comparison to all the others. IMO, this controller will be in the top 2 all the way until another new gen comes along. Course by then Sandforce will have yet another to keep them on top. Hows that for a fanboy attitude?

 

[nanaki333]

the mods had nothing to do with me changing the title.

again, i should not have to find tweaks and work arounds for a $550 drive to make it run at optimal performance. i did what was recommended to me with the hot swap, and i still had stuttering issues, just not nearly as bad. going from my G1s in raid0 to this i was expecting at least similar performance. i came in wanting it to be better. you're the one being very childish and rude in your attempt to offer damage control for ocz. in the end, i certainly got my monies worth from it ($0).

 

[TonyB]

On one hand, I hate the company OCZ. They are slime and have left a bad piss taste in my mouth since the days when they were still selling memory chips.

On the other hand, I purchased the Vertex 3, not because I like the company, but because it was the fastest solution on the market thanks to Sandforce.

I don't believe in fanboism, but I can recognize a shitty company when I see one yet I can also recognize a superior product when I see one. If any other companies out there had a Sandforce 2000 series drive out there they would have had my money.

Corsair, Micron, Intel? Come on and buy-out the company known as Sandforce please!

 

[nanaki333]

i really want this drive to work. on paper it offered more performance as my old setup, but let me get real TRIM support with just a single drive. when i was told i could just have one, you bet your ass i'll take it. ocz or not. all of the drama in this thread from myself and others, i'm going to stick it out for at least 1 firmware revision. i don't even really notice the stuttering anymore as it's happening less and less frequent. there may be an update from msi coming for my mobo too, so we'll see...

ocz is a pretty shitty company though. i just had to send a drive in for RMA just because i wanted to upgrade the firmware. they don't keep all their old firmware so i was told to mail it in for them to upgrade for me.

 

[SickBeast]

Corsair, Micron, Intel? Come on and buy-out the company known as Sandforce please!

Didn't OCZ recently buy out a smaller SSD controller company?

Intel should design their own controllers IMO.

Micron purchasing Sandforce would be interesting, but they seem to do fine with the Marvell chips.

It's great that we have several companies making the chips that drive SSDs. Even if Sandforce were to be bought out, there would be two or three other firms that could take their place.

As an aside, I have 3 parts in my computer made by OCZ: my PSU, some ddr3 memory, and my Vertex 2 SSD. I'm happy with all three of them. The PSU is quiet, efficient, and modular, and only cost me $30AR. The memory is fine, nothing special. It's nice that it runs at 1.5v on tighter timings. The SSD is fantastic so far; it's faster that I thought it would be.

 

[=Wendy=]

@Voo
I'm pretty sure the controller on G2 and G3 are the same, the NAND is different, with the G2 using 34nm NAND and the G3 using 25nm NAND. The firmware needs to be different as the timings for 25nm and 34nm NAND are different. But, I'm pretty sure the performance enhancements in G3 firmware could be ported over to the G2, if the will was there.

@nanaki
if you're running a P67 system, then you'll need to do some tweaks to get any SSD (SATA2 or SATA3) running correctly. There is something amiss with P67 SATA, maybe its just buggy drivers, or perhaps the SATA ROM needs a firmware update, but something is not right with P67 SATA.

Enabling "hot swapping" on Asus boards seems to cure 99% of these problems, and on non Asus boards you should check for an option in the UEFI/BIOS under AHCI, which may be labeled as AHCI/SATA "native mode". It does the same thing as "hot swapping".

 

[Majic 7]

I haven't had to do anything to get my G2 to run on a P67 or my last system. Either of the SATA2 or the SATA3 ports work flawlessly. I've done 4 OS installs on it and 2 firmware updates and it is the one consistent perfect running part of my system through upgrades, updates, stupid, whatever. Glad I bought it.

 

[Voo]

@Voo
I'm pretty sure the controller on G2 and G3 are the same, the NAND is different, with the G2 using 34nm NAND and the G3 using 25nm NAND. The firmware needs to be different as the timings for 25nm and 34nm NAND are different. But, I'm pretty sure the performance enhancements in G3 firmware could be ported over to the G2, if the will was there.

Well sure, since the new flash is actually slower (don't ask me how the hell I thought that they could use the same flash - confused a bit? ) per spec they could. But I'd say there's a difference between enabling something like TRIM support which shouldn't be much of extra work (since that should work independently on the exact hw specs) and something like increasing performance which is as I understand is quite dependent on the exact flash used.

So I can understand why they don't put ressources into enhancing old models.

Also is the P67 issue not a combination of some mbs and some drives? Don't use a p67 board myself, but a friend with a 80gb g2 does it just fine without any changes.