Via making a comeback? Isiah II uarch competes with kabini and baytrail...

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
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Now the benchmarks we received appear to get the upper hand on both Intel and AMD processors alike, but since there are some very serious points of contention, we shall approach that in a minute. Now the x86 architecture codenamed Isaiah II is basically being developed by Centaur Technology and will be revealed in approximately two months. You can find the exact countdown over here. Now the x86 processors made from this architecture will be targetted to the same market sector that is currently housing AMD’s Kabini and Intel’s Bay Trail processors. So we are looking at a low end product primarily for embedded uses and maybe some very low-end Dekstops.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/via-demos-isaiah-ii-x86-bay-trail-amd-kabini-platforms/#ixzz36e7f8H5P


SOURCE: http://wccftech.com/via-demos-isaiah-ii-x86-bay-trail-amd-kabini-platforms/
 

Homeles

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2011
2,580
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Huh, my earlier comment didn't make it through.

Anyway, AMD's got Beema now, and Intel has superior perf/watt already with Bay Trail, a gap which will only grow later this year... what's the point of the VIA offering?
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
back when the original Atom was new (2007?) Via released the Nano, which was faster but it was never a viable product... I expect the same to happen...

I don't see Via competing with AMD and Intel (pricing, volume)
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
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What is the power consumption? What is the chipset's power consumption? What is the GPU performance?
 

nenforcer

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2008
1,767
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76
This is the same old story we've heard for

Via C3

Via C7

and Via Nano / Nano X2.

As soon as third party reviews come out the benchmarks aren't competitive.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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This will be for the embedded market, dont compare them in consumer space.
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
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This is the same old story we've heard for

Via C3

Via C7

and Via Nano / Nano X2.

As soon as third party reviews come out the benchmarks aren't competitive.

via was always competitive with amd and intel small cores -read bobcat and 32-45nm atoms[cedarview?]- and had better than atom gpu performance.
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
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VIA still uses the FSB. And their revenue keeps shrinking. I doubt this CPU is much different than the current ones.

what is your source on revenue shrinkage?

they seem to be growing or am I reading it wrong[legit question]...
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
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what is your source on revenue shrinkage?

they seem to be growing or am I reading it wrong[legit question]...

They grow and shrink now and then. The long term trend is shrink. They have very volatile sales. And they sell a lot more than just x86 CPUs.

As said, VIA is into embedded. Something AMD is on its way into as well.

VIAs marketshare by companies for graphics and x86 is essentially classified as 0%.
 
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Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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wccftech basically just ripped off 3dcenter.org article, took abit from it and stole the picture and posted it in such a tiny format you cannot even read it properly.

They dont even mention their source is the 3dcenter.org article.


http://www.pcgameshardware.de/CPU-Hardware-154106/News/Via-Nano-2-Isaiah-II-Architektur-1127478/

Has a article about the Isaiah II as well, from the 4/7/2014 (2days ago).

Test scores for a prototype of the Isaiah II, being tested:
http://www.sisoftware.eu/rank2011d/...85a3cbf6c3e59da091b7d2b78aba9cefd2e2&l=en

Its about as fast CPU wise as the AMD Athlon 5350 (guy on forum tested his own pc) and compaired his numbers to the ones he found on the Sisoftware site, from the test of the Isaiah II.
(cannot really be sure about his numbers)


This is the same old story we've heard for
....
..
.
As soon as third party reviews come out the benchmarks aren't competitive

^ My thoughts too. I wanna see how much power it uses though and what type of igpu performance it can put out.


What is the power consumption? What is the chipset's power consumption? What is the GPU performance?

No mention of any of that.
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
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wccftech basically just ripped off 3dcenter.org article, took abit from it and stole the picture and posted it in such a tiny format you cannot even read it properly.

They dont even mention their source is the 3dcenter.org article.


http://www.pcgameshardware.de/CPU-Hardware-154106/News/Via-Nano-2-Isaiah-II-Architektur-1127478/

Has a article about the Isaiah II as well, from the 4/7/2014 (2days ago).

Test scores for a prototype of the Isaiah II, being tested:
http://www.sisoftware.eu/rank2011d/...85a3cbf6c3e59da091b7d2b78aba9cefd2e2&l=en

Its about as fast CPU wise as the AMD Athlon 5350 (guy on forum tested his own pc) and compaired his numbers to the ones he found on the Sisoftware site, from the test of the Isaiah II.
(cannot really be sure about his numbers)




^ My thoughts too. I wanna see how much power it uses though and what type of igpu performance it can put out.




No mention of any of that.

good find, as for power...if this is on that tsmc 28nm that was rumored a while back and if they go single-die soc[as opposed to 2 cpu dice and a chipset] then I am inclined to believe that they can be competitive, Via cpu design are surprisingly competent, historically that is.
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
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good find, as for power...if this is on that tsmc 28nm that was rumored a while back and if they go single-die soc[as opposed to 2 cpu dice and a chipset] then I am inclined to believe that they can be competitive, Via cpu design are surprisingly competent, historically that is.

I doubt it.

The Temash -> Mullins step was huge.
Same with Beema vs. Kabini.


"The power reduction is pretty impressive when you put it in terms of TDPs. The highest-end Mullins part has a TDP of 4.5W, which is significantly less than the 8W TDP of Temash, but manages twice the graphics and productivity performance. "


"AMD also claims the performance of 4.5W Mullins parts this year is at the level of (lower-tier) 25W Kabini parts last year,.."



I doubt via can introduce anything at (2.8 SPD)4.5w-15w that can compete with AMDs offerings, much less Intels.

AMDs new Beema "A6-6310" is supposed to be around 30%+ faster
than the "Athlon 5350" alone due to the frequency increase, and thats at 15watts.
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
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I doubt it.

The Temash -> Mullins step was huge.
Same with Beema vs. Kabini.


"The power reduction is pretty impressive when you put it in terms of TDPs. The highest-end Mullins part has a TDP of 4.5W, which is significantly less than the 8W TDP of Temash, but manages twice the graphics and productivity performance. "


"AMD also claims the performance of 4.5W Mullins parts this year is at the level of (lower-tier) 25W Kabini parts last year,.."



I doubt via can introduce anything at (2.8 SPD)4.5w-15w that can compete with AMDs offerings, much less Intels.

AMDs new Beema "A6-6310" is supposed to be around 30%+ faster
than the "Athlon 5350" alone due to the frequency increase, and thats at 15watts.

trust me I have read all the articles and I doubt AMD can manage those numbers [atleast in most scenarios] besides VIA might just surprise us, I choose to be optimistic.
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
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They arnt "just" numbers amd pulled out is on arse.
Their are plenty of reviewers that where allowed a few hours with a prototype to test them.

Hell here on Anandtech you can find one of a "A10 Micro-6700T" 4.5w (2.8w SPD) apu tested.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...tecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview/3

I know, I read most of the articles that came out but you forget that they didn't get to[or maybe weren't allowed to] test power consumption. I am reserving judgement and will wait until these claims are independently verified, seems too fantastical.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
VIA still uses the FSB. And their revenue keeps shrinking. I doubt this CPU is much different than the current ones.

And listing performance in unspecified benchmarks at unspecified TDPs with unspecified configurations is a joke.

And for VIAs sales:
http://www.via.com.tw/en/resources/investors/sales.jsp#2014

The revenue Year Over Year is INCREASING not shrinking. You should re-check again the link. If they will continue like they have done in the first two quorters then 2014 will be the best year of the last 2-3 years.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
The revenue Year Over Year is INCREASING not shrinking. You should re-check again the link. If they will continue like they have done in the first two quorters then 2014 will be the best year of the last 2-3 years.

Those are complete sales. We are talking about x86 MPU sales. VIA sells much more than x86 MPUs.

Since VIA is so small its not even counted in the x86 statistics or MPU rankings. Lets look at graphics marketshare, since it includes IGP that VIA ships with.


In Q1 2013 they essentially lost the last they had.


No different in Q1 2014:
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
ShintaiDK, dont try to spin it. You only talked about revenues, not x86 market share. VIAs revenues are increasing and that is a good thing.

ps: they could even increase x86 revenue and still loose x86 market share simple because Intel and AMD would sell more x86 products.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,224
136
We are talking about x86 MPU sales. VIA sells much more than x86 MPUs.
The next-gen architecture that is coming out from VIA is a hybrid ARM/x86 core. At boot-up you can choose ARM or x86 as the ISA. ARM and x86 sales will eventually be one in the same at VIA because of the hybrid arch.
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,926
404
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It would be interesting to know how VIA have solved dual ARM & x86 support.

And couldn't they make the switching dynamic in runtime? Like you can switch back and forth between thumb vs non-thumb mode on ARM.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
It would be interesting to know how VIA have solved dual ARM & x86 support.

And couldn't they make the switching dynamic in runtime? Like you can switch back and forth between thumb vs non-thumb mode on ARM.

You shouldn't take NostaSeronx's speculation as fact, even if that's how he presents it.

VIA hasn't shown any incentive in developing their own ARM uarch, I don't see that changing now. And while it's common to see people say that supporting different ISAs is just a matter of including more decoders I don't think this is really the case in practice. If you look at something like Silvermont you can see the influence of x86 throughout the pipeline. A core that handles both x86 and ARM sounds like a core that isn't really excellent at either.

You have to ask yourself what the market potential is for VIA doing this. They've lost any hope at the netbook market years ago (which has itself mostly crashed) and getting into tablets is never going to happen. Forget phones, there's no way they'll scale power consumption down low enough without a totally new uarch and they're probably not up to the task of being competitive, especially with how far they've lagged in process adoption. The only place they really sell is embedded where no one is going to want to run both x86 and ARM in the same device.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
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https://www.google.com/patents/US20120260067
https://www.google.com/patents/US20140122847
https://www.google.com/patents/US20120260066


It would be beneficial for manufacturers and consumers of computing devices to be able to preserve their investment regardless of which of the two architectures prevails. Therefore, what is needed is a solution that would allow system manufacturers to develop computing devices that enable users to run both x86 architecture and ARM architecture programs.
 
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