*VID* Police Begin Seizing Guns of Civilians

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: piddlefoot
serious ?

really with 27 THOUSAND gun deaths a year in America, you dont recon its time for a change ?
Here in Australia our gun death per year is about 120 off memory and the UK is around 180 , dont quote me on that , but surely the idea of everyone with a gun mentality is in the past.

The UK also has CCTV cameras on every street corner, and appears to be quickly devolving into a totalitarian state in light of the recent terrorist attacks and the roll back of civil rights.

What are the citizens of the UK and Australia going to do when they no longer like their particular government and wish to physically do away with it? Not much, I imagine, when the police and military are sticking their rifles in your faces.

Too bad they don't have Penn & Teller's 'Bullsh!t' out there, there was an episode on gun control.

do you really think small arms will do anything to the police or army?

the seccond amendment was created when a gun was a gun, civilians had one, the army had one and the army just was a bit more orderly about it.

Absolutely. A 30.06 with scope will execute a soldier just as well as any military weapon. Let's not forget that few police are special forces...most have a pistol or at most a shotgun, and relatively poor armor and training. Effective resistance is absolutely possible.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BurningDog

Originally posted by: Czar
do you really think small arms will do anything to the police or army?

the seccond amendment was created when a gun was a gun, civilians had one, the army had one and the army just was a bit more orderly about it.

This is a flawed argument. Hell yes they would do something against the army.

Population of the US is nearly 300 million people. If say 1/4th of those are males of fighting age, and just 1% of those have the balls to take up arms, then that is a force of 750,000 men. Add to the fact that the military will be wary to use heavy munitions on its on soil, and you'll see that there is a very good chance that an insurrection would do something to the army.

Look how much trouble an even smaller insurrection is giving our military in Iraq.

organization is a big big advantage

sure they would give it what they have but they just cant win

Try us.

We have training as well, most militia are ex-military. We have organization and preparation. We drill, we train, we learn, we watch, we wait. We have a hell of a lot more than small arms...we have access to all information on all sorts of nifty things - chemical and biological weapons, explosives, specialized munitions, etc. We know about arms dealers supplying military grade weapons. We know where and how the military stores its arms. A few key raids and we're equal to any military unit.

Never underestimate the will and resolve of a people who've had enough, and are fighting not only for their lives but for the rights and lives of their friends and families.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Absolutely. A 30.06 with scope will execute a soldier just as well as any military weapon.

I would say a 30.06 would be better than standard issue military gear since you'd be able to kill them before they could put a bullet anywhere near you.

Some people seem to have no clue what a decent hunting rifle is capable of.

Viper GTS

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: ntdz

What's your point? We are a very diverse culture with many different ethnicities that don't really get along. You don't have problems with hispanics and blacks there in Australia.

Are you implying that other ethnicities don't commit violent crimes? If you're going to imply a racist sentiment, just say what you're thinking so we can discuss it.

LOL Vito this reminds me so much of that scene in Bowling for Columbine with Charlton Heston.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: piddlefoot
serious ?

really with 27 THOUSAND gun deaths a year in America, you dont recon its time for a change ?
Here in Australia our gun death per year is about 120 off memory and the UK is around 180 , dont quote me on that , but surely the idea of everyone with a gun mentality is in the past.

What's your point? We are a very diverse culture with many different ethnicities that don't really get along. You don't have problems with hispanics and blacks there in Australia.

Ntdz, they have BIG problems with aborigines and Muslims in Australia.

I'm very disappointed, I don't agree with you but I never realized you were a racist.

 

[BurningDog]

Originally posted by: ECUHITMAN
So you are advocating 750,000 people to attempt to take over the US with pistols, rifles and shotguns, why?

If you want to overthrow the government, how about you vote and get involved with lobbying congress. Because that is really the only effective way to overthrow the government, at least it is more effective than advocating a civil war because the government is taking away the guns of people that are illegally residing in their homes after a mandatory evacuation order was given, and national guard troops have been SHOT at.

I wasn't advocating it, I was just saying that the argument is "small arms should be banned because they couldn't do anything against the government anyway" is flawed as an argument for gun control.

"illegally residing in their homes" , it shouldn't be hard to see the absurdity of that.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Absolutely. A 30.06 with scope will execute a soldier just as well as any military weapon.

I would say a 30.06 would be better than standard issue military gear since you'd be able to kill them before they could put a bullet anywhere near you.

Some people seem to have no clue what a decent hunting rifle is capable of.

Viper GTS

i have to agree.

not many poeple understand the power of a hunting rifle or the skill of many hunters.

If a full fledged civil war broke out again (i do have to say it seems we getting near the need etc) i think many are naive ot the actuall power the people of the U.S. can muster. We may not have tanks/humvee/strikers etc but do not ignore the fact that many are ex-military, avid hunters and have strong National pride.

 

[irie]

Let me get this right. The thugs, looters, and criminals put their guns down, get on a bus and will be given two thousand dollar debit cards while the law following citizens that choose to stay and rebuild/defend their homes get pushed around and treated like pieces of sh!t? Oh well, this whole situation gets me mad. I hope they Sh!t Can that worthless Mayor and Govenor.

 

[MadRat]

So what are security guards doing there if the whole place is supposed to be abandoned? Sounds fishy, does the rich then have the right to stay? Equal protection for sure.

And its never been against the law in any state to transport legally owned weapons. People confuse concealed weapons with city handgun ordnances. The truth is that it is lawful to carry weapons around as long as they are legal to own and not concealed. In some cases of city ordnances you only have to keep them unloaded - that is if no permit is carried. Otherwise most cities just bar loaded weapons and handguns.

 

[Taggart]

We no longer have a right to bear arms!

We no longer have a right to property (SCOTUS eminent domain ruling)!

:disgust::|:Q:frown::brokenheart::roll::shocked::thumbsdown:

 

[piddlefoot]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: piddlefoot
serious ?

really with 27 THOUSAND gun deaths a year in America, you dont recon its time for a change ?
Here in Australia our gun death per year is about 120 off memory and the UK is around 180 , dont quote me on that , but surely the idea of everyone with a gun mentality is in the past.

Yea and ours is just as low as any western europe or OZ if you look at racial makeup and we have guns out the ying yang. We don't have a murder problem we have a black murder problem.

oh man is that bs........take a closer look.........ozy is mulit cultural , as for the black bs comment, ever though that if maybe there werent so many guns on the streets, there would be less kaos, and killings, anyways 27 thousand deaths against 150 a year is no comparison, even given the population , mmm uk is 180 millionish, 27 thousand against 150 odd again, the main difference in the three places, your gun rights ! You figure it out.

''quote''
The UK also has CCTV cameras on every street corner, and appears to be quickly devolving into a totalitarian state in light of the recent terrorist attacks and the roll back of civil rights.

What are the citizens of the UK and Australia going to do when they no longer like their particular government and wish to physically do away with it? Not much, I imagine, when the police and military are sticking their rifles in your faces.

What the US cant afford ctv ? Or aint the US advanced enough ? Poms have just shown you the way ......
As for the do away with a govenment with a gun, you spinna, when was the last time America was ruled like that, with no election, what a load of crap , and are the cops n army sticking guns in your own citezens faces right now and are they shooting back, and will this change a govenment next week you recon ? ppfftt...
Tell me could YOU do away with the Bush camp ? Do it then .
Bet his gunners kill you first , the idea of America having its govenment slain by an armed take over, is a bit far fetched in this day and age of secuirity beyond belief, l cant see the election procccess being discarded by your country, l think your flat wrong, and maybe its because its easier to judge somethings from a distance.
Like your present govenment , if not , .........get your guns ........on a larger scale it looks more like civil war !
'
'quote''
How's your overall crime statistics? Lots of stabbings and beatings? The problem is people who commit murders. If you are stabbed to death in your gunless paradise you are just as dead.

yea our stabbings are WAY lower too , but we have the advantage of poppulation there, per capitor of head , what you Americans fail to truely realise, is Australia really is just a much more peacfull place, and ive had plent of Americans tell me this, im in a tourist town, and most of them say its attributed to your lack of a bill of rights on guns, so maybe some of you come visit and see the difference between a place thats never had guns at the level that the US has had, oh and as for being stabbed to death , any way you look at it lll take a knife over a 44 shot ! Guns just raise the stakes, it used to be a good old biff up the odd black eye fat lip and sorted, but guns , fool ,its taken to the next level automaticly its a fight for your life .......bloody jokers come to oz and see for your self, hahaha you ll probly stay ! l did !

quote''
We are a very diverse culture with many different ethnicities that don't really get along. You don't have problems with hispanics and blacks there in Australia.

check oz out we are just as multi cultural , only to be bold , we do it better !

''quote''
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Since banning private firearm ownership crime (specifically violent crime) in Australia has increased faster than anywhere other than in the UK. Both Australia and UK are now more crime ridden than the US, and in neither country can a citizen effectively defend themselves from that crime.

THAT IS FLAT WRONG.
Check our crime stat against yours , omfg the comparison isnt even credible, with all the gun related crimes, knife and other weopons, ozzy dont even COME CLOSE TO YOU and yor crime stats......man you need to visit oz, see it for real , then try telling people its a more violent place than the US,, bbbbbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha.....
wake up....

''quote''
Absolutely. A 30.06 with scope will execute a soldier just as well as any military weapon. Let's not forget that few police are special forces...most have a pistol or at most a shotgun, and relatively poor armor and training. Effective resistance is absolutely possible.

What for a few hours till the national guard is called in .......then what ?
quote''
Try us.

We have training as well, most militia are ex-military. We have organization and preparation. We drill, we train, we learn, we watch, we wait. We have a hell of a lot more than small arms...we have access to all information on all sorts of nifty things - chemical and biological weapons, explosives, specialized munitions, etc. We know about arms dealers supplying military grade weapons. We know where and how the military stores its arms. A few key raids and we're equal to any military unit.

that maybe !

quote''
Ntdz, they have BIG problems with aborigines and Muslims in Australia.

I'm very disappointed, I don't agree with you but I never realized you were a racist.

im not racist, but l dont pull punches , your a gronk , and your comment about aboriganies and muslims is FLAT WRONG , there are problems yes but not to the degree we re talking about here, like guns ......
You recon our problems are as bad yet l dont remember 2 buildings comming down via terrorist here .......
l dont like being called racist , your a f@*Khead .

anyways this post is turning into a friggin news paper lol !

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Zebo
So they are siezing thier property, forceing them out and now say they can't have guns? This is really no longer America guys. Government is outright hostile to civil liberties.

Yep.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Buck_Naked

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Mr. Compass, the police superintendent, said that after a week of near anarchy in the city, no civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns, or other firearms of any kind

it says nothing about posession it says CARRY...there is a difference. I can own a gun in Ohio but I can't carry it around anytime I want.

http://abcnews.go.com/ has video of LEO entering houses, detaining lawful residents, and confiscating all weapons... Truly sad... 2nd and 4th amendments being thrown out the window...

Have to admit, I don't think I could go along with it. I understand they want to avoid armed looters, so it would be one thing to agree to leave the area (WITH MY GUNS). If they actually tried to take them once I'd agreed to leave, I'd have no choice to kill them over it...or die trying.

Translation: I love my gun more than my country.


WTF? Have you gun-nuts been watching Red Dawn too many times? I own a gun, but I am not paranoid-dilusional about being able to take over the government with it. What is you 30.06 going to do against an Abrams? Or a B-52? Daisy Cutters, napalm, night scopes, infra-red, Good luck there Mr. Swayze.
If you actually managed to get onto an airbase, what yokel is going to be able to pilot an F-16 or an Apache? Explosives? Being reading Anarchist Cookbook much? Lemme get my banana peels and lets roll...
If NRA gun owners are such patriots, why do they constantly talk about the need to overthrow the govt?

Along this line of reasoning, the should populace should be able to own RPGs, because you know, just the criminals and gangs will own them otherwise..

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: ntdz

What's your point? We are a very diverse culture with many different ethnicities that don't really get along. You don't have problems with hispanics and blacks there in Australia.

Are you implying that other ethnicities don't commit violent crimes? If you're going to imply a racist sentiment, just say what you're thinking so we can discuss it.

No, but gang problems here in the US is almost exclusely a black and hispanic problem. Obviously other races commit crimes as well, but blacks and hispanics commit a disproportionate amount of the crimes here in the US.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: piddlefoot
serious ?

really with 27 THOUSAND gun deaths a year in America, you dont recon its time for a change ?
Here in Australia our gun death per year is about 120 off memory and the UK is around 180 , dont quote me on that , but surely the idea of everyone with a gun mentality is in the past.

What's your point? We are a very diverse culture with many different ethnicities that don't really get along. You don't have problems with hispanics and blacks there in Australia.

Who doesn't get along? I've lived here all my life and this is the first time I heard about different cultures shooting each other. Explain.

You really need to get out of that cubicle!

I was in Europe this summer so I was definately far out... Anyway back to the point. He said that different ethnicities don't get along and that is why we have so many murders. Maybe I'm ignorant but I have never heard Mexicans shooting down chinese etc... What is he talking about?

You ever heard of a gang?

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Buck_Naked
Text

Mr. Compass, the police superintendent, said that after a week of near anarchy in the city, no civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns, or other firearms of any kind. "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons," he said.

That order apparently does not apply to the hundreds of security guards whom businesses and some wealthy individuals have hired to protect their property. The guards, who are civilians working for private security firms like Blackwater, are openly carrying M-16s and other assault rifles.

Mr. Compass said that he was aware of the private guards but that the police had no plans to make them give up their weapons.

Not really sure what to think of this (actually I do, but don't want to get banned) .... The fact that lawful civillians residing in there own homes are having legally owned firearms confiscated is unsettling to say the least...

http://abcnews.go.com/ has video of LEO entering houses, detaining residents, and confiscating all weapons... Truly sad... 2nd, 4th and 5th amendments being thrown out the window...

VIDEO
tradecraft.us/Videos/NewOrleansGunConfiscationSmall.avi
Right click, save

At least they don't do it just in Iraq. Hey, you guys voted for this admin, not me. Deal with it.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: piddlefoot
serious ?

really with 27 THOUSAND gun deaths a year in America, you dont recon its time for a change ?
Here in Australia our gun death per year is about 120 off memory and the UK is around 180 , dont quote me on that , but surely the idea of everyone with a gun mentality is in the past.

Hey come on, America, FVCK YEAH! *pumps fist*
And lets get it right: by having lots and lots of guns and ammo Americans are "protecting" themselves and others from being shot by...shooting people.

 

[TheSlamma]

So when someone breaks in you have a fist fight with them instead?

 

[mect]

Originally posted by: piddlefoot
yea our stabbings are WAY lower too , but we have the advantage of poppulation there, per capitor of head , what you Americans fail to truely realise, is Australia really is just a much more peacfull place, and ive had plent of Americans tell me this, im in a tourist town, and most of them say its attributed to your lack of a bill of rights on guns, so maybe some of you come visit and see the difference between a place thats never had guns at the level that the US has had, oh and as for being stabbed to death , any way you look at it lll take a knife over a 44 shot ! Guns just raise the stakes, it used to be a good old biff up the odd black eye fat lip and sorted, but guns , fool ,its taken to the next level automaticly its a fight for your life .......bloody jokers come to oz and see for your self, hahaha you ll probly stay ! l did !

You can't compare crime rates between Australia and America and attribute it to guns. Look at Switzerland. I've never heard of a crime problem there, but there are lots of guns (including assault rifles). As others have said, the problem is cultural.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: piddlefoot

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: piddlefoot
serious ?

really with 27 THOUSAND gun deaths a year in America, you dont recon its time for a change ?
Here in Australia our gun death per year is about 120 off memory and the UK is around 180 , dont quote me on that , but surely the idea of everyone with a gun mentality is in the past.

Yea and ours is just as low as any western europe or OZ if you look at racial makeup and we have guns out the ying yang. We don't have a murder problem we have a black murder problem.

''quote''
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Since banning private firearm ownership crime (specifically violent crime) in Australia has increased faster than anywhere other than in the UK. Both Australia and UK are now more crime ridden than the US, and in neither country can a citizen effectively defend themselves from that crime.

THAT IS FLAT WRONG.
Check our crime stat against yours , omfg the comparison isnt even credible, with all the gun related crimes, knife and other weopons, ozzy dont even COME CLOSE TO YOU and yor crime stats......man you need to visit oz, see it for real , then try telling people its a more violent place than the US,, bbbbbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha.....
wake up....

''quote''
Absolutely. A 30.06 with scope will execute a soldier just as well as any military weapon. Let's not forget that few police are special forces...most have a pistol or at most a shotgun, and relatively poor armor and training. Effective resistance is absolutely possible.

What for a few hours till the national guard is called in .......then what ?

anyways this post is turning into a friggin news paper lol !

We'll deal with crime statistics first.

According to available department of justice statistics for America, Assaults (just as an example) here in 2004 were about 460 per 100,000 (age 12 and over). According to the Australian Institute of Criminology your rates of assault were 798 per 100,000 in 2003 (not age specific) (I couldn't find 2004 stats). Isn't that interesting. Our instances of rape were 50 in 100,000. Australias were 92 per 100,000. I could go on, but the facts are clear, Australias crime is rising faster than Americas, and you suffer greater per capita instances of crime than we do already.

One 12 month study (by something called ABS, not sure what that is yet) conducted in Australia after the gun-ban there provided the following information:

# Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%.
# Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%.
# Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44%.
# In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%!

Now, I don't claim that this study is completely accurate, but given the admitted statistics of your own criminology institute it's obvious that they can't be that far off either.

I'm not saying that we don't have more gun violence in America, only that you shouldn't paint a rosy picture unless you know the facts. Americas problem is a violence problem stemming from social problems...guns don't really figure in.

As for your National Guard comment: first you assume they'd get here. As we've already seen in New Orleans it takes nearly a week to get any National Guard support. That's more than adequate time to conduct neccessary maneuvers and fade away into the crowds. And even when they did show up, a bullet in the head works just as well on them as on a cop. Let's also remember numbers. Unless the US fully mobilized you'd have small units operating in communities with 1000-10000 times their numbers, where any of them could be part of a resistance movement. Even if the actual number of particiapants was very small, it becomes almost impossible for a small military unit to function in an urban setting where a sniper could be just inside every window. Attrition. It's what's for dinner.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Hafen

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Buck_Naked

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Mr. Compass, the police superintendent, said that after a week of near anarchy in the city, no civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns, or other firearms of any kind

it says nothing about posession it says CARRY...there is a difference. I can own a gun in Ohio but I can't carry it around anytime I want.

http://abcnews.go.com/ has video of LEO entering houses, detaining lawful residents, and confiscating all weapons... Truly sad... 2nd and 4th amendments being thrown out the window...

Have to admit, I don't think I could go along with it. I understand they want to avoid armed looters, so it would be one thing to agree to leave the area (WITH MY GUNS). If they actually tried to take them once I'd agreed to leave, I'd have no choice to kill them over it...or die trying.

Translation: I love my gun more than my country.


WTF? Have you gun-nuts been watching Red Dawn too many times? I own a gun, but I am not paranoid-dilusional about being able to take over the government with it. What is you 30.06 going to do against an Abrams? Or a B-52? Daisy Cutters, napalm, night scopes, infra-red, Good luck there Mr. Swayze.
If you actually managed to get onto an airbase, what yokel is going to be able to pilot an F-16 or an Apache? Explosives? Being reading Anarchist Cookbook much? Lemme get my banana peels and lets roll...
If NRA gun owners are such patriots, why do they constantly talk about the need to overthrow the govt?

Along this line of reasoning, the should populace should be able to own RPGs, because you know, just the criminals and gangs will own them otherwise..

Wrong translation. I love my country more than my president.

The odds of the US depoloying armor or air support units within civilian urban areas is about nil. It would breed immediate and near total contempt for the government, losing the war the moment it began. Any counter-revolution waged by America would be mostly small unit stuff. If they did choose to deploy heavy, there are options. Black market military weapons, heavy explosives, etc.

You're an idiot if you picture America suppressing dissent with carpet bombing. Moreover, the government ceases to operate a military when it ceases to collect taxes. That tends to happen if you have large scale armed conflict in the streets. People don't go to work, people protest by not paying, etc. It wouldn't take long to utterly destroy all federal economics. The end would then naturally follow.

Furthermore, the federal government relies on a lot more than soldiers in armor to operate. Anyone continuing to support a traitorous government (as defined by the revolutionary forces) would be an open target. Once enough government employees were assassinated, things would break down quickly. Imagine trying to hold a political office with a price on your head and 100,000 crazed revolutionaries with sniper weapons out there. Not gonna happen.

I'm not saying that revolution would be easy (or desirable). I only point out that anyone that thinks it's impossible is ignorant. I wasn't advocating overthrowing this government, I was stating that it could be done if neccessary. If you'll read our history (like our Constitution and Declaration of Independence) you'll notice it's pretty specific about our duties to overthrow a false/wrongful government yoke. The reason it's being discussed so much lately is because our government is growing so dangerously close to that point. Patriots serve America, not the American leaders. Ideals, not individuals, are the foundation of this nation.

 

[sandorski]

What are they to do? Relief/Rescue has been hampered repeatedly by people shooting at those who are trying to help.

In many areas it is not only dangerous for the people living there, but is a major Public Health issue as the floodwaters are contaminated with all kinds of nefarious materials from chemical to biological. People in flooded areas CAN NOT stay period. Many who have been evacuated have developed sickness from their exposure and that sickness is a threat to others who come into contact with them. Those who stay behind will die or become very sick, they need to leave now.

========

I was going to avoid this issue, but....

An Armed civilian population would acheive little more than an Iraq situation, if the Military remained loyal to the Government. The only way for a Civilian lead insurrection against the government can work is if they managed to convince a large portion of the Military to join their cause. Even then the only likely way to acheive defeat of the government would be to carry out an inside job Coup so popular in the Third World.

Those who maintain that their Gun Ownership protects them from the Government are deluding themselves. There is infinitely more power in your Ballot than there is in any Mythical Bullet.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: sandorski
What are they to do? Relief/Rescue has been hampered repeatedly by people shooting at those who are trying to help.

In many areas it is not only dangerous for the people living there, but is a major Public Health issue as the floodwaters are contaminated with all kinds of nefarious materials from chemical to biological. People in flooded areas CAN NOT stay period. Many who have been evacuated have developed sickness from their exposure and that sickness is a threat to others who come into contact with them. Those who stay behind will die or become very sick, they need to leave now.

========

I was going to avoid this issue, but....

An Armed civilian population would acheive little more than an Iraq situation, if the Military remained loyal to the Government. The only way for a Civilian lead insurrection against the government can work is if they managed to convince a large portion of the Military to join their cause. Even then the only likely way to acheive defeat of the government would be to carry out an inside job Coup so popular in the Third World.

Those who maintain that their Gun Ownership protects them from the Government are deluding themselves. There is infinitely more power in your Ballot than there is in any Mythical Bullet.

Without going into the debate about military vs. civillians in such an event, I am going to have to disagree with you.

The use of arms against an opressive government was alway seen as the very last resort when all other avenues had been exhausted.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: sandorski
What are they to do? Relief/Rescue has been hampered repeatedly by people shooting at those who are trying to help.

In many areas it is not only dangerous for the people living there, but is a major Public Health issue as the floodwaters are contaminated with all kinds of nefarious materials from chemical to biological. People in flooded areas CAN NOT stay period. Many who have been evacuated have developed sickness from their exposure and that sickness is a threat to others who come into contact with them. Those who stay behind will die or become very sick, they need to leave now.

========

I was going to avoid this issue, but....

An Armed civilian population would acheive little more than an Iraq situation, if the Military remained loyal to the Government. The only way for a Civilian lead insurrection against the government can work is if they managed to convince a large portion of the Military to join their cause. Even then the only likely way to acheive defeat of the government would be to carry out an inside job Coup so popular in the Third World.

Those who maintain that their Gun Ownership protects them from the Government are deluding themselves. There is infinitely more power in your Ballot than there is in any Mythical Bullet.

Without going into the debate about military vs. civillians in such an event, I am going to have to disagree with you.

The use of arms against an opressive government was alway seen as the very last resort when all other avenues had been exhausted.

True enough, but it lost any chance of success after the War of 1812 when the US went to a Conscript Military. Before then the Military and Civilians were the same entity, giving Civilians clear Armed advantage vis-a-vis the Government. Conscription didn't dramatically change the Power role immediately, but with Technological advances Civilians are pretty much unable to exert Armed power over the Government anymore.

Like I said in my previous post, it would look like Iraq if it ever happened. Keep in mind that any Civilian Insurrection will only have some support, most likely not even close to a Majority, but 30% at most and likely much less than even that.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: sandorski
What are they to do? Relief/Rescue has been hampered repeatedly by people shooting at those who are trying to help.

In many areas it is not only dangerous for the people living there, but is a major Public Health issue as the floodwaters are contaminated with all kinds of nefarious materials from chemical to biological. People in flooded areas CAN NOT stay period. Many who have been evacuated have developed sickness from their exposure and that sickness is a threat to others who come into contact with them. Those who stay behind will die or become very sick, they need to leave now.

========

I was going to avoid this issue, but....

An Armed civilian population would acheive little more than an Iraq situation, if the Military remained loyal to the Government. The only way for a Civilian lead insurrection against the government can work is if they managed to convince a large portion of the Military to join their cause. Even then the only likely way to acheive defeat of the government would be to carry out an inside job Coup so popular in the Third World.

Those who maintain that their Gun Ownership protects them from the Government are deluding themselves. There is infinitely more power in your Ballot than there is in any Mythical Bullet.

Without going into the debate about military vs. civillians in such an event, I am going to have to disagree with you.

The use of arms against an opressive government was alway seen as the very last resort when all other avenues had been exhausted.

True enough, but it lost any chance of success after the War of 1812 when the US went to a Conscript Military. Before then the Military and Civilians were the same entity, giving Civilians clear Armed advantage vis-a-vis the Government. Conscription didn't dramatically change the Power role immediately, but with Technological advances Civilians are pretty much unable to exert Armed power over the Government anymore.

Like I said in my previous post, it would look like Iraq if it ever happened. Keep in mind that any Civilian Insurrection will only have some support, most likely not even close to a Majority, but 30% at most and likely much less than even that.

Conscription (draft as we now call it) takes a lot of time to produce soldiers and is much more likely to be the tipping point to revolution if the troops are to be used against their own people.

Even 30% would be about 90 million people. If even 10% of that number (9 million) took up arms against the government out army would not be able to prevail, especially given our overseas comitments and the time it takes to repositon conventional forces.