Video released in fatal police shooting of unarmed Oklahoma man

[Jaskalas]

The basic issue is we have 4 people with guns drawn on a man.
Humans are terrible at following orders, but we turn situations into life or death based on immediate compliance.
If you don't comply... they kill you.

But the thing is... we're only human. If police walk up to / ambush / surprise us we're going to turn to face the noise to see what it is. Many people are killed when they do that. Maybe we have an item in our hands and we want to put that down somewhere. Many people are killed for that too. Ask for ID? It's in the car... killed for that too. Any flinch, or otherwise genuine human reaction that does not line up with the expectations of ALL people with guns drawn on you... means you'll likely end up shot and killed.

By default it's a very deadly situation to have guns drawn on you in the first place. There is no guarantee you'll meet the expectations of all those itchy trigger fingers. If just one person perceives a threat, a person dies. If you're on drugs or otherwise messed up in the head... same result. These situations are never good, but they happen all the time.

You know why it happens, right? Fear. Because our people are armed, so too much our police be armed at every encounter. Which means guns pointed, and people dying. Fear kills. Period. Because we're armed. This is the price we pay to live in a society with that right. It's going to look like this so long as we combine people and guns. Now maybe in the future we'll have robots take point and handle securing a person or location. That'd save MANY lives, but we can't do that today.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

GRAPHIC WARNING - A still photo after the shooting, shows a closed door and rolled up window.

There is no way he could have "reached into" the vehicle. At best it appears this man had his hands on the vehicle, which is arguably in compliance. I now have strong reason to oppose the actions of the officer.

There is a picture in this thread from 5 seconds after the guy drops dead to the ground, where the helicopter is overtop and you can clearly see the window rolled up and the door shut.

So this whole point about him reaching into the car being justifiable to shoot or not is completely moot since that DID NOT HAPPEN.

And I'll still agree to disagree with you about reaching into the car being a reason to kill someone. Why not only use a taser, which I know the one cop did?

EDIT:

Link to picture for the lazy, not inline'ing it because it's somewhat graphic.

http://i.imgur.com/YNj8XrS.jpg

You can clearly see smears of blood all the way down the window so it's 100% rolled up, as is the door shut. His hands are even still up in the position he most likely had them in while he was shot.

What you are seeing is the seat belt, not blood. Look at the window as the helicopter rotates around a little more and the "blood" disappears. The window absolutely was down.

Link to video proof

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Except the windows were up and he couldn't reach in to his vehicle. But hey your were probably to busy rubbing one out to the video with your stormfront buddies to actually get the facts of the event.

Windows were down.

 

[purbeast0]

Oh snap, okay I stand corrected on the image of that being blood on the window. It does appear that the window was down but still a bit hard to tell either way from the quality of the image.

Still doesn't change the fact that you don't just shoot someone because they reach into the car IMO. I'm guessing it was just a panic'd reaction of the cop and she just fired.

Again, why didn't they all just have tasers drawn and/or beanbag guns? Why use lethal force?

 

[DrunkenSano]

If the windows were down, then there is definitely a risk to the police when he reaches in for a weapon. Why do people not just comply to police commands, especially in escalated situations like this?

Also, is it true that the man was on PCP? I've seen videos in the past where police were not able to subdue someone who was on PCP, a female officer tried to taze a criminal on PCP and ended up getting pounded in the face severely.

 

[PokerGuy]

Still doesn't change the fact that you don't just shoot someone because they reach into the car IMO.

You don't know what the person is pulling from that car. Are you going to wait until they pull out a gun and shoot before doing something?

I'm guessing it was just a panic'd reaction of the cop and she just fired.

I agree, that's what it seems like to me as well, without knowing all the details.

Again, why didn't they all just have tasers drawn and/or beanbag guns? Why use lethal force?

Because you don't know if the guy is going to pull a gun or not. If he was high on PCP (which apparently was found in the car), there's no guarantee beanbag guns or taser would even work. Until you know that the suspect is unarmed, having your service weapon out seems like the correct procedure.

 

[SheHateMe]

If you cant keep your composure as a Police officer, you should not be one. Tired of "panicked" cops pulling triggers. One of the other cops tased him, she decided to shoot him for good measure? Because she was "Panicked" or whatever? With all those other cops there?

We already know whats going to happen anyway. She's a hero already. Might as well take the tasers away, they aren't really being used, clearly.

 

[Jaskalas]

Windows were down.

Oh my...
I had thought that was settled, but the second still photo does make it difficult.
I'm not calling it anymore, and will wait for police reports / and an investigation for this one. I'd like to see unbiased experts make the determination with regards to the window and the position of the man at the time.

 

[purbeast0]

You don't know what the person is pulling from that car. Are you going to wait until they pull out a gun and shoot before doing something?

So you think it's okay to shoot someone because you don't know what they are pulling out of the car?

 

[Roflmouth]

No he didn't reach into the car. The windows are rolled up and the door is shut.

It's a known fact that violent criminals don't listen to orders from people of authority? That sounds like a fact of any criminals not just violent. If they listened they wouldn't be criminals. Cops can't just shoot and kill someone because they don't follow their orders.

Sure they can, if the idiots who don't follow orders are taking actions that could endanger the officers' lives.

 

[chucky2]

Dude

LOL

I suspect he makes these accusations because he uses alt accounts.

I only have one account on this board (or any other board). And I'm not accusing Maxima of anything.

 

[soundforbjt]

What you are seeing is the seat belt, not blood. Look at the window as the helicopter rotates around a little more and the "blood" disappears. The window absolutely was down.

Link to video proof

He still couldn't be reaching for a weapon because the cop who shot him had already checked the vehicle herself, iirc.

 

[Jaskalas]

So you think it's okay to shoot someone because you don't know what they are pulling out of the car?

I imagine that constitutes reaching.
You need to call for a change in policy / training, as I believe the action you described would be consistent with current policy / training.

 

[chucky2]

Why was the guy walking back to his car with his hands up? Did police actually tell him to do that, and then shot him?

 

[soundforbjt]

I imagine that constitutes reaching.
You need to call for a change in policy / training, as I believe the action you described would be consistent with current policy / training.

Like the guy reaching for his ID when asked and got shot.

 

[Linux23]

Windows were down.

Laces were out!!!!!!!!

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Laces were out!!!!!!!!

Oh snap!

 

[bshole]

Like the guy reaching for his ID when asked and got shot.

That was a BAD shoot and NOBODY that I know of says otherwise. In that instance the victim was clearly following orders. I believe that cop was convicted was he not? Justice prevailed.

In this situation the victim was clearly DISOBEYING an order and MAY have put his hands in a place where they were not observable.

 

[bshole]

Laces were out!!!!!!!!

Ace Ventura Pet Detective. I doubt any one other than myself caught the reference...

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Ace Ventura Pet Detective. I doubt any one other than myself caught the reference...

don't be a finkle.

 

[Roflmouth]

don't be a finkle.

Finkle is Einhorn!

 

[purbeast0]

Finkle is Einhorn!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8gEUEuatxQ

 

[bshole]

don't be a finkle.

ROFLMFAO!!!

 

[edro]

Anyone have link to video of black guy at gas station who was shot AFTER being told to get his license from his car?
I will always remember his scream, like "why did you do that!?!?"
Luckily, he lived.

1. I can't believe black people don't instantly drop to the ground in police encounters.
2. I can't believe white cops are still shooting unarmed black people.

You would think all this bad press would change behavior on both sides, regardless of your rights.

 

[trenchfoot]

If it hasn't already been mentioned, an open air press conference being held by lawyers for the family showed an enlarged photo of the window in question. Their assertion was that the window was closed and blood was evident on the window itself and the door.

With the afterthought of suggestive interpretation being exploited by the lawyers in mind, *at the time* I saw the news report of the conference, it did look as if the lawyers were correct in what they displayed at the press conference.

The plot thickens.