Video released in fatal police shooting of unarmed Oklahoma man

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Did he attempt to open vehicle's door?

My understanding is he was reaching inside. Not outside.
That implies that the window was rolled down.

You have a good point. It's only implied, not clear based on our vantage.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
No, it is not. You are seeing what has always been.
Society has only recently given us the capacity to experience these situations as they happen to others.

And pray tell, what is wrong? A man died, yes. But his actions were textbook police training on when you shoot.
I've probably seen every single episode of Cops out there, and no, this is NOT textbook police training when to shoot. I've seen dozens of times people reach into the car with guns drawn on them and the cop did not shoot them.

The cop fucked up big time shooting this guy.
 
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Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
sounds like those officers need a promotion and pay raise
 

mxnerd

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
6,799
1,101
126
My understanding is he was reaching inside. Not outside.
That implies that the window was rolled down.

You have a good point. It's only implied, not clear based on our vantage.

No, it is not. You are seeing what has always been.
Society has only recently given us the capacity to experience these situations as they happen to others.

And pray tell, what is wrong? A man died, yes. But his actions were textbook police training on when you shoot.

No weapon was found in his vehicle, why would he wants to reach inside? for his ID?

If all police were trained the same, there should be 4 shots.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,657
4,130
136
I watched the video. The original report IS what actually happened. Insofar as the opening line.
"A man was shot by a police officer Friday night after he reportedly reached into a stalled vehicle"​
That's proven by the video.

So he ignored police orders after guns drawn and lead officers backwards some 20-30 feet back to the vehicle where he then turned and reached inside said vehicle.

A person ignoring orders and reaching is a HUGE red flag. That's the scenario they're trained to shoot for.

Get your facts and logic out of this emotional rant thread...
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,657
4,130
136
No weapon was found in his vehicle, why would he wants to reach inside? for his ID?

If all police were trained the same, there should be 4 shots.

You do realize the cops didnt know at the time there was no weapon in the vehicle? That is pretty common logic here man. You refuse orders and keep walking to your car and reach inside you better not think the cops are going to hand you a dozen roses. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. That is pretty much what this is going to boil down to.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
So what did the guy do to have all the cops point their weapons at him in the first place?

he stalled his car in the middle of the road.


having your car break down on the road while black = 50/50 chance of you being shot by cops
 

AnonymouseUser

Diamond Member
May 14, 2003
9,943
107
106
So the innocent black male walked "hands up, don't shoot" style back to the side of his vehicle that was innocently parked in the middle of the street and innocently reached inside his vehicle while innocently ignoring lawful commands not to, and he received a bullet in response to his innocent threatening behavior. Damn racist cops!

 
Reactions: x26
Feb 16, 2005
14,035
5,338
136
So the innocent black male walked "hands up, don't shoot" style back to the side of his vehicle that was innocently parked in the middle of the street and innocently reached inside his vehicle while innocently ignoring lawful commands not to, and he received a bullet in response to his innocent threatening behavior. Damn racist cops!


And that is sufficient to get him shot dead, gotcha.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
No more a stupid game than the one that cops regularly play, of lying and covering up their buddies when they get in trouble, then wondering why suddenly people start shooting them on the streets. Sure was a stupid game the Dallas five played, better luck next time.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,820
8,405
136
Yeah, the fact that only one cop ended up firing isn't going to bode well for the "we followed training/regulations" argument.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I think that pretty much every formal study on this topic says the complete opposite of what you are asserting. I assure you that there is no credible literature to support your claims, but there is a mountain of literature supporting discriminatory practices against african american's by US police departments, practices that also allow for the unlawful use of force again this very vulnerable population.

.

Citation please. You cannot assert such a point in the absence of such. No blogs please. A real scientific paper if you don't mind.

I am providing you with 2 scientific papers demonstrating the opposite. The ball is in your court.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1745-9133.12187/abstract

Research Summary

Race-related debates often assume that implicit racial bias will result in racially biased decisions to shoot. Previous research has examined racial bias in police decisions by pressing “shoot” or “don't-shoot” buttons in response to pictures of armed and unarmed suspects. As a result of its lack of external validity, however, this methodology provides limited insight into officer behavior in the field. In response, we conducted the first series of experimental research studies that tested police officers and civilians in strikingly realistic deadly force simulators.

Policy Implications
This article reports the results of our most recent experiment, which tested 80 police patrol officers by applying this leading edge method. We found that, despite clear evidence of implicit bias against Black suspects, officers were slower to shoot armed Black suspects than armed White suspects, and they were less likely to shoot unarmed Black suspects than unarmed White suspects. These findings challenge the assumption that implicit racial bias affects police behavior in deadly encounters with Black suspects.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399

Roland G. Fryer, Jr
NBER Working Paper No. 22399
Issued in July 2016
NBER Program(s): LE LS POL

This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
You do realize the cops didnt know at the time there was no weapon in the vehicle? That is pretty common logic here man. You refuse orders and keep walking to your car and reach inside you better not think the cops are going to hand you a dozen roses. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. That is pretty much what this is going to boil down to.

It was reported that the shooter's lawyer has stated that the vehicle was checked for weapons before the shooting occurred.

You do realize this don't you? Right?
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
And LOL @ the PCP excuse like it's still the 70's.

I get that it's tried and true, but you'd think that the scary black man on drugs narrative would change with the times a little.

I look forward to all the skeletons that are going to come out of this lady's closet in the next few days. She's a kook.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,138
5,074
136
And LOL @ the PCP excuse like it's still the 70's.

I get that it's tried and true, but you'd think that the scary black man on drugs narrative would change with the times a little.

That did stand out.
Not really up to date on the drug lingo but to me that statement seemed to be from "He's carrying dope and playing his boombox too loud" era.
The Nancy Reaganism is strong up in Tulsa.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
It was reported that the shooter's lawyer has stated that the vehicle was checked for weapons before the shooting occurred.

You do realize this don't you? Right?

Checked by who?
Video starts with one officer on the road with the man. Three more show up. In no way does this assume everyone present is fully aware nor confident that the location / vehicle is secure and without weapons. It's an interesting piece of information, but it does not immediately preclude shooting unless we have more details on that.

Yeah, the fact that only one cop ended up firing isn't going to bode well for the "we followed training/regulations" argument.

You may argue against "ignoring orders and reaching" as seen on video, but to suggest it's not a glaring red flag for threat assessment...

People need to distinguish between not wanting the man shot, and understanding why he was shot.
 

Superself

Senior member
Jun 7, 2001
688
0
76
This was not a stop. The guy probably needed a tow so why give instructions as if he was pulled over?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
Checked by who?
Video starts with one officer on the road with the man. Three more show up. In no way does this assume everyone present is fully aware nor confident that the location / vehicle is secure and without weapons. It's an interesting piece of information, but it does not immediately preclude shooting unless we have more details on that.

Checked by Officer Betty Shelby.

Of course it doesn't prove anything other than the "play stupid games" crowd are usually dumbasses.

The timeline is still murky as expected, but she pulls up on a car in the road, checks it out in some manner, likely did not see any injured people or weapons, then the victim is approached or approaches from somewhere off the road, he's acting odd, she calls in for backup, video starts.
 
Last edited:

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
No, the cops should stand there and get shot by a suspect stupidly not following their instructions.

Except they wouldn't have gotten shot....

Do you have any idea how many people cops would kill every year if they shot everyone who reached inside their vehicle after being told to put their hands up? I dunno, perhaps waiting to see an actual weapon since they have the tactical advantage of having 4 guns already trained on him would have been a better approach?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Did he attempt to open vehicle's door?

My understanding is he was reaching inside. Not outside.
That implies that the window was rolled down.

You have a good point. It's only implied, not clear based on our vantage.

GRAPHIC WARNING - A still photo after the shooting, shows a closed door and rolled up window.

There is no way he could have "reached into" the vehicle. At best it appears this man had his hands on the vehicle, which is arguably in compliance. I now have strong reason to oppose the actions of the officer.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
They probably thought "What's a black man doing with a nicer car than ours? Must be grand theft auto!" the moment they saw him.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
"He looks like a bad dude, too!"


Yeah, the scary mother fucker had a PLAIN WHITE T-SHIRT ON!!!!
 
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