videocardz AMD Radeon R9 290X Memory Bus: 512-bit

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crazzy.heartz

Member
Sep 13, 2010
183
26
81
You're a funny guy. The only reason to do this is if you're heavily biased towards nvidia and want to put their cards in the best possible light even if a website has to throw their journalistic integrity out the window. And that is, what you're doing by overclocking nvidia cards but not overclocking AMD cards. If you want the review to show the indicative performance of a reference 780 versus a reference R9x, you don't do this. The reviews will be reference stock clocks versus reference stock clocks. It won't be "HEY WE WANT TO MAKE NVIDIA LOOK BETTER THAN THEY REALLY DO" by overclocking all of their cards but not overclocking the AMD cards. Give me a break.

The point of a review is to show an objective comparisons between 2 launch products with both at stock clocks. The only reason to overclock one and not the other is if you're heavily biased towards nvidia - that is neither objective or fair methodology because ONE CARD IS STOCK AND ONE IS OVERCLOCKED. If you don't see the obvious implications of overclocking one and not the other, you haven't thought it through or you're just biased towards nvidia.

Quid pro que i guess. Web portals can only run on hamster powered servers for so long...

Anand used flawed logic in the past to praise AMD's "innovation", as some say, in adopting new nodes, dx, delivering next gen performance for less $ & criticize nvidia for salvaging 5+ cards from one giant card. However, has now rightly corrected his viewpoint and is inline with other mainstream tech websites... Benchmarks seem to agree as well.

If an old, OC'd nvidia card shows up on the doorstep whilst writing reviewing new AMD cards, it's only fair to include it..
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
3,743
28
86
Can someone kindly explain to me whats the big deal with the "512-bit memory bus" apart from allowing more VRAM... what else is there? Is 384-bit a bottleneck?

My guess is AMD has improved on compute from the 7970 and decided on 512 bit for the professional cards. 384 bit with fast memory shouldn't be a bottleneck gaming unless the performance of the rest of the card is extraordinary.

If an old, OC'd nvidia card shows up on the doorstep whilst writing reviewing new AMD cards, it's only fair to include it..

Only if the price is similar and it should be in its own section of the review with a discussion of what sort of vendor OC would be needed on the review card to beat any listed competitor factory OC cards. If they want to stray upwards in price for the competitor factory OC, that starts to push the limits of sensible launch reviewing, but they should be manually OCing the reviewed card. This goes for any review, imo.
 
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Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
126
You gonna get a pair Groove?

I'd like to, but have my doubts this card will be convincingly faster than a highly overclocked 780 is.

I'm hoping to see something awesome though like the efficiency per mm2 we saw with the 5870 in this card's much larger die. Something like a 430mm2 sized die or whatever this card is but a hair faster than Titan with good overclocking headroom.

Would be really nice to shake up everything and put a super fast card back in the $5XX dollar range where it should be.
 

crazzy.heartz

Member
Sep 13, 2010
183
26
81
Naturally, what else would these guys do?

It's certainly not possible to include OC'd variants of AMD cards when reviewing new Nvidia cards..

For example, it might have been be the lack of OC potential on AMD cards such as 7850 or 7950.. Or they were just not able to find factory OC'd versions of these cards as the market was flooded with reference models; even 6+ months after launch.
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
2,012
23
81
It's said to save die space, power and have better OC potential while still having a bit more data transfer at stock.

Makes sense in reference to the logic layout, but you know board makers are gonna hate that! 2GB R9 290Xs are virtually guaranteed if stocks of smaller GDDR5 modules still exist.
 
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crazzy.heartz

Member
Sep 13, 2010
183
26
81
Only if the price is similar and it should be in its own section of the review with a discussion of what sort of vendor OC would be needed on the review card to beat any listed competitor factory OC cards. If they want to stray upwards in price for the competitor factory OC, that starts to push the limits of sensible launch reviewing, but they should be manually OCing the reviewed card. This goes for any review, imo.


It's not possible when one's giving stepfather treatment to a particular brand. Sometimes, rebate deals/ discount coupons are just not available; which are required to bring a card down from it's price bracket & to be included in certain review...
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
3,743
28
86
It's not possible when one's giving stepfather treatment to a particular brand. Sometimes, rebate deals/ discount coupons are just not available; which are required to bring a card down from it's price bracket & to be included in certain review...

If a competing factory OC card can't get into the same price bracket without rebates and very limited time markdowns then it doesn't deserve listing in a launch review. Just publish a "Factory OC review" or have a "Deals" page where all that stuff can be discussed.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
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actually, it's scary... there is so much hype in it


...if it don't delivers

The part that bothers me most is how a lot seem to be so focused on "512-bit". Hello, anyone remember the HD 2900XT? That card was 512-bit while the 8800GTX was 384-bit. Also, the 7970 was overkill with a 384-bit bus (my 7950s mining gain almost no performance from overclocking memory). What it's going to come down is how powerful the Hawaii core is. I'm also a bit disappointed with 44 ROPs. What an odd number. They could have gone all out with a 64 ROP setup that would have been absolutely amazing for those who like to use a lot of AA.

Either way, tomorrow we find out.

P.S. If AMD puts a hardware frame pacer on this card, it's a win no matter if it performs 10% better or worse than than Titan/780 because then CF will actually be a viable alternative to SLI. No waiting months for drivers on a per-game basis. It'll just work out of the box once a driver profile enables multi-GPU for the particular game.
 
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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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So because of Nvidia and Valve working together on Linux performance over the past 12-16 months (here, here, and here) and also with Gabe Newell's comments on virtualization post kepler here (why mention a different vendor's GPU architecture than what you are choosing to use when discussing abilities???) I've maintained that Nvidia would end up as the GPU of choice in any in-house Valve designed-and-sold steambox. It's common sense not to talk up a partnership with a company when you are going to use that company's competition in your own products. Right???

HOWEVER, anandtech has this little morsel on their AMD portal regarding tomorrow's reveal:
We’re told that tomorrow’s announcement will make Linux users/developers especially excited, so we may be seeing how AMD intends to close that gap.

Now this info could just be that AMD is also working with Valve to improve Linux performance on their hardware, and that AMD has boutique builders lined up to make 3rd party steamboxes OR it could be that AMD secured the GPU win to be used in Valve's in-house designed steambox, which I think would have some very serious ramifications down the road. I've personally been a big proponent of Steam coming to market with their own hardware and ecosystem, arguing that Microsoft always relegates the PC behind the Xbox and that Windows has significant overhead as a gaming OS. So in my arguments I've said that a steambox would be a long-term success and would be Nvidia's way to easily combat the PS4 and XB1 AMD console wins. However, if AMD has won out for the steambox in addition the consoles, I think Nvidia will be permanently fighting an uphill losing battle for gaming video cards starting with Maxwell.
 

Rvenger

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator <br> Video Cards
Apr 6, 2004
6,283
5
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if AMD has won out for the steambox in addition the consoles, I think Nvidia will be permanently fighting an uphill losing battle for gaming video cards starting with Maxwell.


I certainly hope Nvidia wins at least a piece of the steam box. It could be AMD CPU and Nvidia GPU though. They might not go APU route. As much as I hate some of Nvidia's marketing tactics, we really need them competing in the GPU space to help push tech (and pricing lol) forward.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
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I don't see how a STEAM box will be a significant win for AMD or Nvidia. Unless Valve plans on making features exclusive to the STEAM box itself, why would I buy one instead of continuing to build/own my own PC? And for people that don't build their own systems, why can Valve offer a better system than established PC builders?

So that leaves Valve indeed offering exclusive STEAM stuff that is not on the PC side of things, doing so risks alienating their existing (and huge) user base no?
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I was under the impression that "steam box" was an open specification and Valve would let anyone build such a machine.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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However, if AMD has won out for the steambox in addition the consoles, I think Nvidia will be permanently fighting an uphill losing battle for gaming video cards starting with Maxwell.

Steambox is irrelevant, people who play steam games already have a PC for that. Unless you think Steambox is capable of eating into the real console crowd, and beat the likes of xbone and ps4...

Ofc having your GPU in a product is better than not, but its not significant enough and thus, unable to leverage developers into focusing on a particular architecture optimization.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
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How is that different than building a Windows or now Linux based PC that has STEAM installed? Obviously something involved that I'm missing...
I was under the impression that "steam box" was an open specification and Valve would let anyone build such a machine.
 

Gloomy

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2010
1,469
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How is that different than building a Windows or now Linux based PC that has STEAM installed? Obviously something involved that I'm missing...

The difference is that Walmart or Gamestop can peddle their own console whenever the Linux game support is ready. Set up a huge fancy kiosk and tell people to try it. Or Alienware can sell a fancy glowing steambox. Or MSI, or whoever.

When the games are ready.

This is basically what happened with servers and phones, so don't count it out just yet... actually, I see no reason why this wouldn't work as long as AMD and Nvidia get behind it (and they have). It's been tried and shown true.
 
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Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
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The thing about the Steam Box is that it is not a static hardware set or device. Gabe described it as being three different levels of device; good, better and best. The only device that will be static is the good box, which is expected to be a sort of streaming device that streams your games from your PC to your TV and uses a low-end mobile SOC. The better and best devices will be flexible and left up to the builders to pick and choose the hardware. Steam will provide the OS/software for them.

I don't think there is a GPU win to be had there as the choice of hardware is completely flexible. A steam box can use an nvidia or AMD GPU, there is no set hardware.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3958162/valve-steam-box-cake
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,734
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I don't see how a STEAM box will be a significant win for AMD or Nvidia. Unless Valve plans on making features exclusive to the STEAM box itself, why would I buy one instead of continuing to build/own my own PC? And for people that don't build their own systems, why can Valve offer a better system than established PC builders?

So that leaves Valve indeed offering exclusive STEAM stuff that is not on the PC side of things, doing so risks alienating their existing (and huge) user base no?

Well I think you need to step outside of the shell you are currently in to get the bigger picture. Steam is slave to an operating system that is not designed for gaming and is made by one of it's main competitors. Not a great long-term strategy, especially when that operating system is catering in sales. There are also other competitors potentially looking to get into the living room application based entertainment (Apple) and Gabe correctly sees that the opportunity to thwart / slow Apple is to beat them to the punch with a good, encompassing solution.

The reality, though, is that steambox won't be aimed directly at the people like you, who don't mind dropping $1000 every 2 years on hardware, who don't mind tinkering with settings and/or obscure mods, who want triple-monitor setups, and are comfortable sitting in front of a desk 24/7 to play games. The steambox is initially going after the crowd that hasn't fully embraced PC gaming and/or Steam yet, who likes the idea of gaming on a PC but is turned off by the initial high costs for a good setup and simply wants to turn on the machine and play games without having to worry about updating drivers or tweaking graphics options.

Steambox is irrelevant, people who play steam games already have a PC for that. Unless you think Steambox is capable of eating into the real console crowd, and beat the likes of xbone and ps4..

Eat into their sales somewhat maybe, but like I said about more likely coexist along side consoles and expand it's own user base (as well as time spent by users). But being irrelevant is incorrect, long term it is very relevant. People like me will not spend the rest of our lives building oversized desktops to play games. I'm nearly done with dropping hundreds of dollars every year on upgrades. Steam provides most of which I like in PC gaming - workshop for mods, organization of games, easy install, keyboard & mouse, better graphics and performance than consoles on capable machines. If a steambox can provide all that, awesome I'm done sinking hundreds of dollars into upgrading every new GPU cycle. My priorities, just like many other people who game, are changing and I value different experiences more now than I did 3-4 years ago.

I was under the impression that "steam box" was an open specification and Valve would let anyone build such a machine.

I think Valve is going to go the route of Google (Nexus) and have their own hardware in addition to third party hardware.
 
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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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The thing about the Steam Box is that it is not a static hardware set or device. Gabe described it as being three different levels of device; good, better and best. The only device that will be static is the good box, which is expected to be a sort of streaming device that streams your games from your PC to your TV and uses a low-end mobile SOC. The better and best devices will be flexible and left up to the builders to pick and choose the hardware. Steam will provide the OS/software for them.

I don't think there is a GPU win to be had there as the choice of hardware is completely flexible. A steam box can use an nvidia or AMD GPU, there is no set hardware.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3958162/valve-steam-box-cake

This is all correct, but I think Valve is referring to third party steamboxes when talking about the different levels of performance. I think Valve is going to have a in-house steambox that will probably fall under the "better" category and will be a 1 configuration setup. Hopefully Valve will update the box every 12-18 months much like the smart phone / tablet market, keeping the same price but improving the hardware every time.

Like I said above, I think Valve will lead the charge with their own set top device like Google's Nexus, and will entice/invite partners to make up their own configurations.
 
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AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
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That's great for Valve to rid themselves of being tied to Windows. But that has nothing at all to do with potential GPU wins in a STEAM box.
 
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